Will there be any major update to Montage/MODX?

[Jose EB5AGV]

I wonder if we will see any major software update to current Montage/MODX models. It's been a while since last one and that could mean two things: Yamaha is working on a big update or is working on brand new models.

 

I guess if COVID (and later war) had no struck, we would be expecting new models... But now it seems more logical to extend the current platforms lifetime, IMO.

 

What do you think?

 

Jose

[Dockeys]

Yamaha usually get as much traction out of each model as they possibly can. Think Motif/MotifES/MotifXS/MotifXF. Makes little sense to launch a new type of Montage/MODX at this stage when so much has gone into those models. They haven’t even released a whole lot of updates but when they do they’re pretty substantial.
 

Their decision to release the YC series so soon after the CP range still baffles me especially as they are so similar in so many ways. Granted they are targeting different players but the layout, a lot of the sounds, the chassis, dimensions etc are all close to identical. For me this was the only weird unexpected release from yamaha in recent years. I’d imagine the  Montage/MODX range will be with us for another few years. 

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, Dockeys said:

Their decision to release the YC series so soon after the CP range still baffles me especially as they are so similar in so many ways. Granted they are targeting different players but the layout, a lot of the sounds, the chassis, dimensions etc are all close to identical. 

 

Re-using elements is cost-effective in terms of development and fabrication, and in this case, the marketing of differently targeted models with many underlying similarities kind of mirrors what Nord did with the Nord Piano (with the CP73/CP88 in 2019) and Nord Electro/Stage (with the YC61 in 2020, and then the YC73/YC88 in 2021). 

[CEB]

Seems like the Montage was just introduced.  Time moves faster as you age though because time is relative.  Each additional year is a smaller portion of your total life experience.

[pjd]

As I speculated in the "AN-X" thread, my wildest guess is upgrades for pay.

 

Hardware product flow to retailers still seems rather slow due to either shipping delays or production delays. From what I've read, AKM (supplier of DAC and ADC components) has not recovered from its factory fire yet. This could be slowing Yamaha shipments. 

 

So many people want a virtual analog engine on the Montage platform that Yamaha could make some money on a paid upgrade. I think they could make money on a YC upgrade, too. I sure as heck would buy a YC upgrade for my MODX.

 

Your guess is as good as mine -- pj

 

More speculation here:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/guess-again-an-x-tm/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/namm-2022-your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine/
 

[Jose EB5AGV]

58 minutes ago, Jazz1642606857 said:

I'm not sure about the Montage, but the ES110 got a major upgrade to the ES120

 

We are talking of completely different instruments!. The complexity of the Montage/MODX architecture, both SW and HW, is light years from a simple DP as the ES120

[Docbop]

 When I was thinking of getting a Montage or Kronos a year or so ago I did a lot of deep digging on both.   For the Montage an engineer had done are really detailed article on the Montage and MoDx down to the chips.   He as saying the two boards basic are the same except MoDX has one less of the main chip (sorry I don't remember the name/type of the chip).  He said that one less chip why a few of MoDX a couple less capabilities.     But what I was interest is he said hardware wise the Montage can do a lot more with the current hardware, that the issue is software.    He said for Yamaha the software development is the more time consuming for both development and testing.    

 

So I wouldn't be expecting new hardware from Yamaha when they have more they can do with software.   

[Jose EB5AGV]

30 minutes ago, Docbop said:

 When I was thinking of getting a Montage or Kronos a year or so ago I did a lot of deep digging on both.   For the Montage an engineer had done are really detailed article on the Montage and MoDx down to the chips.   He as saying the two boards basic are the same except MoDX has one less of the main chip (sorry I don't remember the name/type of the chip).  He said that one less chip why a few of MoDX a couple less capabilities.     But what I was interest is he said hardware wise the Montage can do a lot more with the current hardware, that the issue is software.    He said for Yamaha the software development is the more time consuming for both development and testing.    

 

So I wouldn't be expecting new hardware from Yamaha when they have more they can do with software.   

 

I guess you are referring to @pjdexcellent articles on his blog

[Analogaddict]

As a Montage user, there are a few OS quirks that could/should be redone. For instance the possibility to freely assign multiple zones to one midi channel as well as opening up channels 9-16 would be great, and if they were to release software expansions a new OS allowing them to sell/authorize licenses could be a possibility. The Montage could use more memory - but with a software based VA synth and the YC organ you could free up sample space in the Montage. Win/win..!

[DrEsophagus]

I've been using the pattern sequencer they jazzed up on the last update for MODX like a madman, it's pretty awesome, laying down all the bed tracks for the songs I've been writing and it's given them new life. I can't even imagine what other upgrades they could do to it but given chips shortages and all that, if they do another I wouldn't complain. Wouldn't mind if they added a playable Mario Bros. game or Sonic the Hedgehog that would be pretty cool.

[Stokely]

I wish we did know whether the Montage will be a platform for expansion, or if something new will be rolling along.  I'm building up a cache of gig money as gigs have been plentiful and I haven't had anything I "need" to spend it on (I try like hell to keep music money for music purchases...).    If a white Montage went on sale used at sam ash or guitar center I'd be tempted.  The Modx has proven its worth and I might well upgrade to its big brother.  That, or possibly a Fantom.  Using an ipad with one cable like it can (and the Fantom can't) is a huge checkbox in favor of Yamaha in my book.

[pjd]

On 6/24/2022 at 12:34 PM, EB5AGV said:

 

I guess you are referring to @pjdexcellent articles on his blog

 

Thanks for the very kind words! -- pj

[pjd]

51 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I wish we did know whether the Montage will be a platform for expansion, or if something new will be rolling along. ...  The Modx has proven its worth and I might well upgrade to its big brother.  

 

I'm still getting a lot of value from MODX, too. Not sure what Montage would do for me at this point other than add a lot of weight to my gig schlep.

 

Wish we had tomorrow's newspaper today. 🙂 A successful business needs at least a little visibility into the future. Usually, a technology-based business can go under NDA and get a roadmap from its supplier. That's where we consumers are at a disadvantage as to planning future purchases.

 

Take care -- pj

[dalpozlead]

Offtopic... but this is something that made me think if only happened to me or also to others… I was sad having to sell my Montage 6 after months of playing and “not feeling it”…. Many hours later I realized that its sound (and its sound spectrum) sounded like (and I’m creating this analogy to explain my thoughts) hearing a finished track instead of the raw recordings before mastering… I found the “raw” synth experience with Rolands (since my JD-990 from 2003 and now with FA, JDXa and Jupiter X).

Maybe this is due to Yamaha’s filters or even made on purpose to have Montage’s sounds “ready to sound like a finished song”.

[Stokely]

I'm not sure I have experienced that exact thing, but I have never really liked the synth sound of the MODX...but I found a lot of my dislike has turned out to be the stock presets.  When I started from an init patch, and built up a performance with only one or two parts from the element(s) on up, I got a much more punchy and good raw sound.  I'm not going to say it's going to sound like an Oberheim but for the tunes I was programming for I needed something in the ballpark, and was able to get close enough.  I'm not sure a single poly synth stock performance was usable, for things like Loverboy/Styx/Rush etc.    There were a couple mono patches out of all of stock ones that had some meat to them, but again most of them I'd describe as:  "thin and weedy" with that sheen that you might be describing.  I kind of put it down to them going for a modern sound vs the vintage ones I wanted.

All that said, once I'm over covid (arghhhh) I want to go over to my friend's house *with* my modx and maybe do some A/B with his Fantom-07 as far as synth patches.   

As far as the weight of the Montage...yeah, definitely a downside.  I just find I appreciate the metal builds and better keys on the flagship models.  Sounds silly but one thing I'd lose is room to velcro my ipad to the top, the modx7 has a perfect spot on top!    My modx7 basically has a second screen, as I use B-3X a ton.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

II have never really liked the synth sound of the MODX...but I found a lot of my dislike has turned out to be the stock presets.  

As far as the weight of the Montage...yeah, definitely a downside.  I just find I appreciate the metal builds and better keys on the flagship models.  

Considering the sound set is very similar between the MODX and Montage, I don't believe there is a gain beyond a metal build and better keys but the `$2k difference in cost is very real.😁😎

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

I think it's too soon for new models.  and the update when they added the sequencer was pretty huge IMO.  

 

what else would you like to see it be able to do?

[Stokely]

55 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Considering the sound set is very similar between the MODX and Montage, I don't believe there is a gain beyond a metal build and better keys but the `$2k difference in cost is very real.😁😎

Oh, I realize that    The price gap does narrow if you can find a good deal used, a used Modx isn't that much less than new while a Montage can be a lot less.  My Forte 7 was 2 grand in great shape, that's the kind of deal I'd be watching for.   

My main beefs are:  Despite the great, great sound of B-3X, the Modx isn't ideal as an organ controller mainly due to lack of a set of draw faders in a row.   I get by though especially with the drawbar presets making it quick to change up.   And, if I'm only using the Modx, piano playing becomes iffy, not only for the light keys but the problems I've had getting a decent mono piano patch out of it.  (The Monaural Grand is truly terrible, it's worse than the CFX and other stereo patches in mono.)  Granted, I'd still have that problem with the Montage.

[Jose EB5AGV]

52 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Oh, I realize that    The price gap does narrow if you can find a good deal used, a used Modx isn't that much less than new while a Montage can be a lot less.

 

Yes, exactly!. My barely used Montage 6 White I bought for 1400€ proves it 🤩

 

Just the keybed is enough for me to go by the Montage. Then add more controls, visual feedback, larger poliphony, more RAM, sturdy built, ...

 

But for rehearsals I may get a MODX7 in the not so far future... It depends on how the upcoming gigs go! 😅

 

Jose

[miden]

thing that annoys me, is they (and Korg/Roland are the same) will simply never change the core chassis on which all of these are built - way too long for anything other than a studio (YC series excepted)

[Mr -G-]

14 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

what else would you like to see it be able to do?

In the MODX, some LED  should indicate that transpose is ON to prevent catastrophic events in the next song.

There seems to be a discrepancy between the sounds of the patterns you hear in "patch Audition" mode and what one can do with the keyboard using the same patch. I imagine that the keybed cannot generate the range of velocities that the Audition mode outputs.

 

[Stokely]

yeah the unknown transpose thing is annoying.  We tune down a half step and occasionally (especially if there has been a power issue) I forget whether I've transposed or not.  I do a quick shift-transpose *again* just to see the read-out...if I see "-2" then I know I had already done it and quickly transpose back the other way!

I've definitely had a catastrophe or two but usually it's when I lose power after setup and completely forget to re-transpose.  Nothing like a big two-handed chord to open the show that's exactly one half-step higher than everyone else...now that I think about it, I wonder if I should just tune the thing down via utility if that is possible (though that would be annoying when learning songs.)

I feel pretty ashamed that I didn't even know what the "scenes" did until very recently.  That's a powerful feature and I was doing a lot more work to accomplish the same thing, say when you go from a verse to a chorus--I was manually adjusting faders and/or even switching performances when all I really needed was to hit a scene button.

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:32 PM, ProfD said:

Considering the sound set is very similar between the MODX and Montage, I don't believe there is a gain beyond a metal build and better keys but the `$2k difference in cost is very real.😁😎

Well you forgot the faders... That's huge for alot of people believe it or not. 

[ProfD]

3 minutes ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Well you forgot the faders... That's huge for alot of people believe it or not. 

You're right...some folks would prefer to have the 4 extra faders and buttons too.😁 😎

[Bobadohshe]

On 6/29/2022 at 7:23 AM, Stokely said:

I feel pretty ashamed that I didn't even know what the "scenes" did until very recently.  That's a powerful feature and I was doing a lot more work to accomplish the same thing, say when you go from a verse to a chorus--I was manually adjusting faders and/or even switching performances when all I really needed was to hit a scene button.

 

Scenes are a game changer for sure!

[DrEsophagus]

Scenes are a Godsend. When I record my original stuff, I do the verse in one scene, the chorus in another, copy and paste where needed, chain the f*ckers together and my song is done.  The MODX with that upgrade, bang for the buck, is probably the greatest keyboard anyone's made in decades. You can't improve on it really for the price. The keybed is kind of not great but that's ok. At least it's not as bad as the VR-09 or that Korg monstrosity. The Kross I think.

[Stokely]

Yeah I need to go back through my song-specific tunes and do more with the scenes.  I use b-3x on an ipad, I wonder if scenes could mute piano and turn on the external zone, and vice versa.  Or simply turn down volume.  I have a few songs where I switch from piano to organ and didn't want to set up a split.  Right now i do it by changing performances, which I guess isn't much different from hitting a scene button.

Only the Lonely (Motels) is a good example where these can shine.  It starts with a Prophet-y synth, then I bring in a pad for most of the song to make it a bit richer-sounding, then at the end I have the pad and a CP-70 doing the little outro motif.  Much easier to hit buttons than mess with the faders!

My last three gigs I've done with *only* the Modx and it's getting harder to get myself to bring two keyboards out.  My rationale has been that because these were outdoor shows where rain can and does threaten daily here, I need a light rig I can pack up quickly.   I'm not happy with the pianos right now, in mono at least, and I need to record the next show to see if it's just how I'm hearing it in my in-ears.  I've often found that recordings of shows sound better sound-wise than I thought when on stage.   Besides piano, I want to see how the poly synth performances I'm using really sound when critically listening.

[Viv Savage]

I switched from MODX on top to Montage 6 and am very happy.  (I found a great deal on a used M6). The extra weight is not a big deal with a rolling case, and I really appreciate the keybed, extra faders and buttons, assignable outputs, internal power supply, and overall build quality.  Now if they would just update the Leslie like the YC, I’d be in heaven! 🙂