Bad sign of the times

[Docbop]

Went to breakfast with a guitar buddy and afterwards went the local Guitar Center.  My buddy hangs at GC all the time pimping guitar lessons so he knows all the staff. My buddy asked where one of the staff was and was told you didn't hear,  four of the staff just got laid off.   One of guys laid off had been there over ten years in Pro Audio and actually knew what he was talking about.    Not looking good for the future of this GC if they go then just have one tiny music store that is basically lessons and low end used stuff.   Have a feeling this is probably happening at GC and other stores in small cities like mine.  The future of brick and mortar music stores isn't looking good, getting like buying cars order and wait. 

[ElmerJFudd]

Brick and mortar were dying before Covid.  When I drive past the strip malls in my area - there’s plenty of empty store fronts, few sales people on the floor of open stores, and a lot of retail calls it quits at 5pm.  

[KuruPrionz]

We are just south of the Candian border here. They've opened it up again, seeing more British Columbia plates. 
Pre-Covid, Canadians were about 40-50% of our retail economy. I dunno what happens next.

 

Our GC is one of the smaller ones so It may survive. Manager is cool, staff changes but they're cool too. I don't go there much, don't really need anything mostly. 

[timwat]

While brick & mortar are struggling, it's not a monolithic thing. Every organization gets to try and figure out how to respond to their specific challenges. 

 

If, or example, you look at Macy's, you see a company that is not resigned to going quietly the way of Radio Shack, Sears, or Montgomery Wards. They have a plan, and their numbers might suggest it's working (or, at least, some parts of it are working). So is Costco (for significantly different reasons, but they aren't threatened by the publicized death of B&M).

 

All to say Guitar Center has an opportunity to adjust their strategy, change their identity and offering, and remake themselves. 

 

And to date it does not appear they are doing a great job at this.

[The Real MC]

This started happening at the GC near me four years ago - two years before covid.  The guitar market saturated and sales have been down.  The staff and floor stock was cut back and 1/4 of the floor was converted into guitar lesson booths.

It was just a matter of time before the flood hit other GC stores.

Death on brick-and-mortar stores from online retailing?  

 

I dispute that.  

 

In the same city of the aforementioned GC, there are at least three stores that has been successful in used instrument sales that had no visible signs of cutting back.  Last year I moved south to a new job and brick-and-mortar stores are doing very well here.

[RABid]

Nothing has been hit harder than malls. It is not surprising. Malls have a very high overhead. Those air conditioned walkways, fountains, greenery and security come with a price. The stores that used to pay it are now having trouble drawing price concious customers. The mall in a neighboring town is down to around 20% occupancy. The mall in the nearest college town finally closed. Lexington is down to 1 mall. They cut back on things like cleaning, maintenance and security and suddenly there was a rash of incidents. Fights inside. Women being robbed as they walk back to their cars. It hit the news and further damaged their business. I have not seen a music store in a mall in years.

 

We do have a music store in my small town that is somehow surviving. I'm not sure how. I took lessons there for 3 weeks and quit becuase they were so unprofessional. It is basically a guitar store with a singe electric piano in the keyboard department, one small set of drums, and a selection of cables and guitar pedals. Nothing to get stuck with or loose money on.

[analogika]

Acquaintance of mine works in a Music Store here in town. 
 

They could sell their asses off right now, with three years‘ worth of touring going on concurrently and people grabbing every opportunity to play — but they’re not getting their supplies. 
 

Roland finally managed to deliver the new loopers they announced, what, last year? Three of each. So — six units. 

[Stokely]

Anecdotally, some observations from places mentioned in the last few posts...

Our mall was never huge but it's basically one dept store left out of three (I miss Sears), and the one that is left (Dillards) is so empty it's creepy.  The men's dept never has more customers in it than employees.   Macy's left a few years ago.

Outdoor malls are the thing now if anything is, we have had a few gigs in a nice club in one.  I don't like them, this is Florida and it's 1000 degrees with thunderstorms always around the corner.

Costco near us is *always* busy.  My wife had me go with her  to help get something we needed for a rental property.  It was a Saturday, holy hell.  Completely bananas, the humongous parking lot was full on every side with people waiting for spot.  It's like that every weekend which is why I avoid it like the plague and only go on weekdays.

[The Real MC]

I stopped buying clothes at the mall and major retailers 15 years ago.  I replaced my work pants and the ones I bought at a mall store lasted one year.  The workshoes I bought at Kmart fell apart in less than a year.  The poor quality turned me off from retailers and malls forever, and I went back to mom-n-pop stores for my clothes.

 

Gradually the malls became more appealing to women who are impulse buyers, with less and less stock to appeal to men.  I remember when they had bookstores and tool stores that appealed to men, and they have been gone a LONG time ago.  

 

I used to travel a lot for business trips, and almost every mall I browsed through looked the same.  One reason I enjoyed travel was so see refreshing sights, and the ho-hum sameness of malls all seemed to be designed by the same firm.  By 2010 I stopped going to malls at all.  Many have closed, even in major metropolitan areas.  The local mall where I used to live had many empty storefronts, and only one anchor store remaining.  Of the few stores left, one of them sell tombstones - boy that's an omen if I ever saw one.

[Jose EB5AGV]

I'm glad I am not the only one who keeps far from malls. For me, there is zero attractive. When a whole family ideal Saturday afternoon is to spend the time on them, I cringe.

 

About music stores, the only one I have visited in the last 4 years is a mostly pianos one about 14 km from my home, in the closest large city, Valencia. There I had the revelation to buy my acoustic upright (not there, BTW, as they only sell new instruments and I decided to get a used one). I buy all music gear online except for some used items from local sellers. Just last week I went to Valencia, and found that a musical instruments store I visited about 5 years ago was no longer open. I felt bad for them, but I am really one of the culprits of their demise.

 

Now, with gas prices in Spain completely mad (about 2.2€/l), my interest in going to any store is still lower than before!

 

Jose

[Lindaru]

I remember perusing malls in the 1980's and a little bit in the 1990's, but first hubby (guitar player) and I preferred to buy our gear directly from Mid City Music.  I am not even sure if they exist any more.

I got my Roland E-16 from an actual music store in Portland, Oregon, in 1993 (Christmas gift from my husband who just passed last year).  I loved going in that store.  When we went back for a visit to Portland in 2016, it was gone.

My MicroKORG and Moog were purchased on line.  There are no music stores in my town with the nearest ones being 100 miles away in Boise.

The times surely do change and can be very sad indeed.
 

[RABid]

You know what I miss? I miss the feeling of awe I felt when walking into Carl's Music, down town Lexington KY back in the late 1970's and seeing stacks of Ludwig vistalite drums on a high shelf in a high ceiling room. I think they had the same set of three tone tequila sunrise drums on that shelf for years. Or seeing a conga in person for the first time, getting to try it out, and having a worker run over and ask me if I was interested in playing in a band. I was 17 and had never even been in a garage band. I remember taking a road thrip to Far Out Music, north of Louisville KY, to check out their keyboards. I had bought a MiniMoog from a local small town store that get it through Far Out Music. They gave me directions and told me to go check it out. I did. Wow, it was not easy to find. Definitely out in no where. An industrial area. Walked through the guitar department, upstairs into the drum room, and finally entered the keyboard department. They had a bunch of keyboards including a Prophet 5 and a MemoryMoog. I bought the Memory Moog. Somewhat regretted not getting the Prophet 5. I spent hours there trying everything they had while my best friend was downstairs in guitar heaven. They had a great keyboard guy that was there from around 1980 until the store finally closed a few years ago.

 

You don't find that now. Not unless you live somewhere like Fort Wayne. Now it seems like music stores are just guitar stores with a few other items.

[Doerfler]

32 minutes ago, RABid said:

You don't find that now. Not unless you live somewhere like Fort Wayne. 

or Washington, DC 

[Shamanzarek]

Last summer I did an outdoor concert series at a mall in Connecticut. The mall is huge and seems to be doing well but the stage was in front of a large Sears store that went out of business. That empty Sears store was the biggest dressing room we ever had.

[Jose EB5AGV]

Ironically, after all my negativeness towards malls... My personally first gig with my recently joined band will be on 21st July... In a large mall 🤣

[AUSSIEKEYS]

17 hours ago, The Real MC said:

 Of the few stores left, one of them sell tombstones - boy that's an omen if I ever saw one.

 

Wow this is almost unbelievable but if you dont mind me saying as a cudos "only in America". I love how something youd never expect can happen in America.

 

It blows my mind in a good way that something bizarrely interesting can flourish in all these Malls of Gloom. This is from a guy who always in my single days wanted to build a fake cemetery sculpted out of white foam blocks in his frontyard. Purely as an artist's sculpture garden. But able to buy the real deal like groceries certainly appeals to my sense of WTF.

 

Maybe I should check out malls again who knows whats New maybe a .........what could top a tombstone shop?

 

 

[o0Ampy0o]

There is an indoor mall in the closest large city which has grown for decades. Now it looks like a huge multistory parking garage as they had no other way to increase parking except to add to the exterior of the building. Across the main street is a very trendy outdoor mall which includes a Tesla gallery (dealership is in the form of an art gallery). While everyone goes to the outdoor mall for its restaurants and cinema what is keeping the indoor mall alive is the strong Asian population which includes many of relative wealth. I had not been there in years and was surprised at how it was primarily targeting authentic Asian elite. Supposedly one of the few restaurants there has the best dim sum and people were lined up outside for it. 

[Docbop]

Growing up in L.A.  there were malls everywhere every budget.   I didn't shop at them much but would enjoy the people watching aspect when I did.  Where I live now there is one mall and only times I was there was when I was hanging with a buddy and his girlfriend managed a store in the mall so we got to see her and get discounts on vitamins and such.    Since he broke up with her I haven't been to the mall and that is years now.   None of the stores are type an old Jazz man would be interested in.  What surprised me was a few years back Dick's Sporting Good didn't just moving into one of the big storefronts they build a big extension to the mall for themselves.   Do people really buy that much sporting goods?  That's strange to me.   

 

It's the only big mall shopping area for 40 miles so looking at the parking lot it still seems to be quite a few cars, but nothing close to how it was in the past.   In fact last Christmas I was surprised that the mall's parking lot wasn't never full compared to the past when it was packed day and night during holiday season. 

 

Being my age strange seeing the evolution of shopping centers, to malls, to bigger and bigger malls, and now the watch the death of malls and even shopping center are full of empty space.  

[David Emm]

 I knew malls were on their way out when one of them was used for "Dawn of the Dead" and it felt perfect. That perky music is one of my bigger ear worms. Malls have always made me feel corporate-creepy anyway. Its like your granny and the board of Monsanto got together and designed their idea of an amusement park. Brrr. 🥶

[Anderton]

Probably some malls will survive, and some won't. I think a lot depends on how much it's considered a gathering place where people buy things, rather than just a bunch of stores.

 

What interests me is how the ones that don't survive will be re-purposed if they're not torn down...maybe luxury hotels.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

13 hours ago, Anderton said:

What interests me is how the ones that don't survive will be re-purposed if they're not torn down...maybe luxury hotels.

Nah fullfilment centres for the online mega malls such as CrAmazon, eBaD, WallTart, GiveMeYaMoney, and TeslalalalaMotorCompany etc.

[Docbop]

16 hours ago, Anderton said:

Probably some malls will survive, and some won't. I think a lot depends on how much it's considered a gathering place where people buy things, rather than just a bunch of stores.

 

What interests me is how the ones that don't survive will be re-purposed if they're not torn down...maybe luxury hotels.

Seems like they could be converted to schools.    Seen one that was converted to an apartment complex that looked interesting.   A mall is like a small community with food area, place for small stores, living area, and library etc. 

[Konnector]

They're building mega hi-rise developments with rapid transit directly connected to some of the popular malls around here. I think those malls will probably survive well into the future providing the landlords don't get crazy with the lease fees. 

 

I only go to the mall if I have to, and that's primarily for clothes or shoes. I need to try them on. Sizes are not consistent these days. So many items come from the far east. What they consider a large over there is a medium at best here.

 

Department stores on the other hand are quickly going the way of the dinosaurs. Walmart and Costco may be the only ones left in the future. (I surely hope not though.)

 

If the past visions of the future are accurate, then all we'll need is a spandex jumpsuit and matching boots. That'll kill the last of the malls for sure.

[RABid]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:00 PM, Anderton said:

What interests me is how the ones that don't survive will be re-purposed if they're not torn down...maybe luxury hotels.

In Lexington KY two of the three malls closed. One sat empty for 6 years before it was torn down and replaced by a church. The other is now a clinic.

[GovernorSilver]

In my area, we lost one mall.   What killed it was, from what I gather, a history of poor business decision making by the property owner, which predated Covid, the rise of online shopping, etc.

 

The replacement will be one of the local hospitals, which will relocate there and expand.

 

OTOH, the mall right next to my workplace shows no signs of dying anytime soon.  It's next to a major freeway, has its own mass transit rail station, has 2 major hotels next to it, etc.  Every time I visit it during lunch break, I see signs of new stores planning to open up soon - but don't misunderstand me - it's not like 80% of the mall is vacant with lots of "coming soon" signs.  Rather, the majority of the mall is occupied by stores that are open for business, from the ones you'd expect like the Lego store, clothing stores targeting teens, etc. to ones you might not expect like the Steinway piano store.  

[Iconoclast]

Here in AZ I think a lot of the more modern and successful malls are more indoor/outdoor arrangments that seem to lean more heavily on restaurants and entertainment draws and less on retail, although retail certainly still exists. 

 

They near always have live outdoor music on the weekends.

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gregpetro/2019/04/05/shopping-malls-arent-dying-theyre-evolving/?sh=3530e3d72210

[Iconoclast]

But on the original topic of guitar center...I haven't gone their since the incident with Pedal Guy and I wrote them a letter to that effect.  I added them to the pyre of companies I used to almost exclusively support but have now vowed a life long vendatta against.  I don't want to get into a political discussion...but neither should they.  I've only gone there on gig days when I needed something very specific within the hour; usually a cord or stand that broke at the last second.

I have very little evidence that incident hurt them, but I know a lot of guys like me who are in the part of their life where they can afford expensive musical toys who feel similar to me.  I used to be considered a whale at that place and knew all the managers.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/guitar-center-has-bigger-problems-than-the-pedal-guy/

[Stokely]

Ironically, I'm in that same part of life and I'm 100% on the other side of that issue, nuff said.   I've got companies on my personal list but that wouldn't compel me to add GC to it.  One thing I think most people could agree on...shooting off your virtual mouth on twitter does just about nobody any good.  I'll never understand what compels individuals and companies to do it.   

[jazzpiano88]

I hadn't even heard about the GC and Pedal guy story until these posts.  Some things are so upside down they don't even seem possible.   I'm not even a guitar player and I think I'll buy a few of his pedals.

 

Our malls are as busy as ever here.   One of our best malls has a massive Scheels store.   Better than Bass Pro, IMO.   Firearms superstore along with a great baseball department.

[RABid]

14 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

I hadn't even heard about the GC and Pedal guy story until these posts. 

Neither had I, and this is not the first "pedal guy" to say something that caused controversy. Remember when companies like Sweetwater were going to drop Fulltone? I've even seen complaints about JHS. Sweetwater is still selling Fulltone. GC isn't, but maybe Fulltone dropped them.