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Modx/Montage pianos - mono choices


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Hello,

Not sure this is really worthy of a whole new thread but here goes.

Lately I've been doing certain gigs with just my Modx7.  For instance we do an outdoor show Saturday with not much cover and it's looking like rain...I want to be able to grab everything at a go to get under cover.

Sound-wise, this works fine, it takes an adjustment doing more splits or quick changes in patches than two keyboards.  The exceptions:  the pianos are awful in mono.  From what I see and read, this is due to the samples themselves being recorded in stereo.  The names of the elements reflect this.  At the least, the patches I've tried that use the CFX are.   When we use our PA I send stereo to FOH and monitor in stereo with my P16, works great.   Some gigs I'm simply handed one cable because the PA is mono; I have a Rolls headphone amp for such gigs on my pedalboard right next to the P16m....works great, I can cover any situation.   

Long story short, has anyone found/made/purchased any pianos for their Montage/Modx that work great in mono?   Admittedly I haven't tried all of them.  There is a "Monaural Grand" (Monaural something) and it sounds terrible.  Not just "it's in mono" terrible, the entire timbre is nowhere near the CFX patch that I've been using.  In fact, it suspiciously sounds kind of like the stereo patches do in mono!

I haven't yet gone into the elements say for the CFX patch I mentioned and replaced all the sounds with mono versions...before I spend the time I was just curious as to whether others had noticed this.  If not, maybe something else in my monitoring is causing an issue, though I've only really noticed problems with the piano.    The way I go from stereo to mono is simply that I only use one output (the mono one) from the Modx into the mono input on my Key Largo.   If I run stereo, I just run a second cable to that same channel.  In other words, the Modx is doing the "collapsing" to mono.  Unfortunately the KL doesn't have a mono switch or at least I don't think it does, so if I plug anything into that other side it will split the signal to the main outs, which would probably be even worse that what's happening now.

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The first stock CFX patch does the job for me in mono - i take the right output.

Nord Stage 2 76, Nord Electro 5D 73, Rhodes Mk2 73, Sequential Prophet 10 Rev4, Akai Miniak Synth, Roland JC 120

 

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I tried a few patches out tonight, which was a mono gig.

My monitor mixer tonight was the p16m Behringer, and oddly I didn't notice quite the same bad sound as I did previously.  That is making me suspect something in my Rolls monitor mixer (which I normally use for any gig where we don't run sound...tonight the sound engineer let me try out the Ultranet to my P16m and it worked straight away.)   So the plot thickens a bit.  It may be that the Rolls is not working as well as it should be with the Key Largo, and frankly it's not as if it's a super expensive unit to begin with...

Still, while the sound wasn't as thin and annoying, it was lower in volume than it should have been.  My main CFX patch is normally my baseline, all other patches have their volume set based on it.  

I tried the "S700" patch, which I think may be an older legacy patch, and thought it was a bit better sounding than the CFX in mono.  It didn't have that "honky" sound that I'm getting in mono at least.   

I'll continue to mess around.  1203, so that seems a bit odd...when I run mono, iirc the mono output is the left out.  Do you mean you only hook up the right output instead?  From what I remember about the CFX patches, they have a fairly extreme stereo panning going on based on pitch.  The lows are mostly on one side, the highs on the other.  I figured if I were to just plug in the right, I'd be getting one of those two (I can't recall if high or low would be on the right).

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Yes, only the right output for mono playing. Sounds better than the left „mono“ output for me (and others). This topic was also discussed at the Nord user forum. Many users of the Nord pianos say the same. Right output is better for pianos (more crisp and clear on the upper octaves), even if Nord says, left output is „mono“ output. 

Nord Stage 2 76, Nord Electro 5D 73, Rhodes Mk2 73, Sequential Prophet 10 Rev4, Akai Miniak Synth, Roland JC 120

 

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You should have access to the S6 Grand samples in your MODX...S6 Rock was my go-to mono piano when I was primarily gigging my Motif XF. I always thought the CFIII samples sucked in mono.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, MX61, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Korg: N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Behringer CAT

Yamaha Pacifica 112V & APX600 | Washburn WI64 | Ibanez BTB-675 | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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15 hours ago, 1203 said:

Yes, only the right output for mono playing. Sounds better than the left „mono“ output for me (and others). This topic was also discussed at the Nord user forum. Many users of the Nord pianos say the same. Right output is better for pianos (more crisp and clear on the upper octaves), even if Nord says, left output is „mono“ output. 


I see, interesting.  I don't know that I have that option though as I use the Modx for many other sounds as well...I suppose if they also sound fine via the right output then that would work.

I'll also try out the S6.  

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Oh yes, I use the the right output trick as well, with any board actually.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, MX61, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Korg: N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Behringer CAT

Yamaha Pacifica 112V & APX600 | Washburn WI64 | Ibanez BTB-675 | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Great info!. My first gig will be in July with a Montage 6 and I don't know if they will offer me stereo or mono connection, so it is nice to know the Right output is preferred for pianos instead of the Left/Mono, which I would have used 👍

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I'll have a bit of challenge in that I also play stereo when my band runs the PA.  If the right output favors the high side of the keyboard as I believe it does (most of the pianos seem to go across low to high from left to right) I may have some work to do to make sure the stereo sound matches the mono.   I'll have to go through the non-piano patches as well to make sure they are good.   It would be a bit easier if I could find a mono patch that simply worked if I have two outputs connected or one, and I'll continue to check into that.

 Kinda makes the argument to play mono all the time, which may be what I do (I can still monitor mono sources in stereo with my mixer, so the mono keys can be at say 2 o clock and guitars at 10 o clock etc).

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59 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I'll have a bit of challenge in that I also play stereo when my band runs the PA.  If the right output favors the high side of the keyboard as I believe it does (most of the pianos seem to go across low to high from left to right) I may have some work to do to make sure the stereo sound matches the mono.   I'll have to go through the non-piano patches as well to make sure they are good.   It would be a bit easier if I could find a mono patch that simply worked if I have two outputs connected or one, and I'll continue to check into that.

 Kinda makes the argument to play mono all the time, which may be what I do (I can still monitor mono sources in stereo with my mixer, so the mono keys can be at say 2 o clock and guitars at 10 o clock etc).

You could always roll your own mono piano (or take one of the existing pianos, center pan all the elements, and just keep the right or the left waveforms. Again I recommend the S6 sample as a starting place.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, YS200, MX61, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Korg: N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Behringer CAT

Yamaha Pacifica 112V & APX600 | Washburn WI64 | Ibanez BTB-675 | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Yeah, that's probably my next step...though last gig the sound wasn't so bad.  Just the volume dropped down a bit, which can be a problem with stereo-to-mono.

I'll definitely check the s6.  I tried the cfx again and the s700 but somehow missed the s6.   

And actually that's one good thing to try: simply panning the parts/elements center.  You'd think that would be the same as using the mono output, but perhaps not.

While I'm on the subject:  any thoughts on an IOS piano that might be "better" (in mono or otherwise) than, or comparable to, the Modx pianos?   I'm already using an ipad for organ and it works, it wouldn't be a problem to pick up a piano app and do the same.   I noticed that ksounds has an "epic grand" that is supposed to work well in mono, but it's more expensive than I'd like.

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