Baldwin Funster Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 It seems like the A500 pro is meant to mostly run DAWs. I didn't see a mention in the manual of hooking it up to a multitimberal board although it would be shocking if you couldn't. Anybody using a Roland A300 pro or A500 pro to get more ext zones with their board? Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 It sends midi through the din out. I've used the A500 as a small hardware synth controller. I used it monotimbrally for leads and basses. It has an ac adapter. No problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 After I purchased my Code 61 I saw an A800 Pro (I believe Reezekeys uses one live). The one distinct feature it has that the Code 61 doesnt have (per the owners manual) is the ability to do 5 pin Midi merge via the 5 pin Midi Out. The Code 61 does midi merge but only via USB midi. When driving a midi module that only has one 5 pin midi in but I want to connect two keyboards to the unit then I have to use a midi merge box. With the A800 Pro it would do the 5 pin midi merge so no midi merge box is needed. One con with both keyboards is that not all functions can be programmed on the keyboard directly, some things need to be programmed via an editor that runs on a PC. It would be nice if all editing could be done via the keyboard directly. Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 The only thing I'd add is that there are three "key set" memories, i.e. presets where you can set up a split or layer arrangement with different key ranges, midi channels and transpositions for one or two zones. Two zones is what you get, and the three memories are global to the keyboard - separate from the 19 presets that store controller assignments. Also, as Dave alluded to, these three keyset presets can only be set up or edited from Roland's Mac/PC software on a computer – not on the keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted June 4, 2022 Author Share Posted June 4, 2022 I want the somewhat better keybed and I like the Roland pitch stick better than a wheel. But... The A-x00 pro is old, non class compliant and way beyond seeing one tiny smidgen of updates. I've recently had other old midi controllers not function right due I presume to needing updated drivers that will never be. I'm afraid old mostly forgotten roland products are heading to that place. I'm also worried that because I need an editor to program pretty much all the CC assignments that I'll have to maintain an archaic old computer that supports the editor if I ever want to reprogram the board. It's a bummer because the A-pro is priced comparably to the Arturia mk2 stuff and I think has the better keybed and pitchstick. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 Quite true that this is a very old keyboard compared to other brands. I did a google search and the earliest mention of the A-Pro range is 2010; not many keyboards of this type have been around virtually unchanged for 12 years! My complaint about its tiny LCD was one of my first posts on KC, and an offhand remark about its convoluted transpose function opened up a small outpouring of enmity from a few folks (no longer here, I think) that almost had me quit this board back then. I stand by those comments (but don’t want to start any debate on the “button”, lol). I'll take small issue with a few points made in the last post. First, it's not true that the A-Pros are non class-compliant - you're able to select between Roland's proprietary driver and class-compliance. Also, you don't need the computer editor to program many of the controller assignments' parameters. It's true that there are certain parameters that are only available on the computer editor, but imo "pretty much all the CC assignments" is a bit of an exaggeration. For me it was a combination of weight, price, and a solid-feeling action that has me staying with this keyboard. I'm on my second one, after USB jacks fell apart on my first. I replaced the jack three times before managing to chew up the circuit board with my less-than-stellar soldering skills. I used USB rather than 5-pin exclusively, and the constant wear from the cable flexing a bit from the keyboard moving on its stand as I played caused the jacks’ innards to come loose. For whatever reasons, my second A800 is much better in this regard and I haven't had the issue at all (I do use 5-pin midi more now so the USB jack isn't being stressed as much). I’m also not concerned about the editor not running on a future computer of mine - at least on the Mac side. It was updated to 64-bit Intel which I’m presuming Apple’s M1 Macs will support via Rosetta 2 for as long as I’ll own this A800. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 20 hours ago, Delaware Dave said: A800 Pro ... The one distinct feature it has that the Code 61 doesnt have (per the owners manual) is the ability to do 5 pin Midi merge via the 5 pin Midi Out. The Code 61 does midi merge but only via USB midi. When driving a midi module that only has one 5 pin midi in but I want to connect two keyboards to the unit then I have to use a midi merge box. With the A800 Pro it would do the 5 pin midi merge so no midi merge box is needed. I wanted a A800 pro for that functionality and sent it back because it didn´t work when operating the keyboard "standalone" w/ other hardware instruments/ modules only. The 5pin DIN MIDI In port isn´t routed in any way to the 5pin DIN MIDI-Out port when the keyboard isn´t connected to a host computer via USB. I wanted a keyboard and a bass pedal playing a MOOG Minitaur alternately and keep all cables connected, didn´t work. Same behaviour like my Edirol PCR300 and 500 which use same drivers and virtually same MIDI interface. When the keyboard is connected to a host computer via USB, physical MIDI In and USB MIDI In is merged running MIDI data into the application running on the host. Please correct me if I´m wrong because I´d appreciate physical MIDI-In being merged w/ the keyboard´s MIDI data being transmitted at physical MIDI-Out. I´ve found no way to do so up to now. ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Al Coda said: I wanted a A800 pro for that functionality and sent it back because it didn´t work when operating the keyboard "standalone" w/ other hardware instruments/ modules only. The 5pin DIN MIDI In port isn´t routed in any way to the 5pin DIN MIDI-Out port when the keyboard isn´t connected to a host computer via USB. I wanted a keyboard and a bass pedal playing a MOOG Minitaur alternately and keep all cables connected, didn´t work. Same behaviour like my Edirol PCR300 and 500 which use same drivers and virtually same MIDI interface. When the keyboard is connected to a host computer via USB, physical MIDI In and USB MIDI In is merged running MIDI data into the application running on the host. Please correct me if I´m wrong because I´d appreciate physical MIDI-In being merged w/ the keyboard´s MIDI data being transmitted at physical MIDI-Out. I´ve found no way to do so up to now. ☺️ A.C. According to the manual on page 11 you need to flip a switch on the side of the unit to midi merge. Then on page 67 you have to set the port to midi out. It says that doing this ".. messages received at the aPro's Midi In will be merged into the APro's Midi Out..". Did you set the port correctly? It's possible that you may have to set the port via the editor, although it doesn't say how you actually set the port. https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/a-800pro/owners_manuals/e25e64e3-cc12-45fb-b968-c7ea6cb8761f/ Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 4, 2022 Share Posted June 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Delaware Dave said: According to the manual on page 11 you need to flip a switch on the side of the unit to midi merge. Then on page 67 you have to set the port to midi out. It says that doing this ".. messages received at the aPro's Midi In will be merged into the APro's Midi Out..". Did you set the port correctly? I believe Al wanted to merge notes played on the A800 with midi data received at the A800's midi in and have it all come out the midi out port. That can't be done using the A800 standalone, according to what I see in the manual. Also, it looks like the "midi merge destination" parameter can only be set from the keyboard - it's not anywhere in the computer editor. [EDIT - true midi merge can be done if "i/f mode" ("interface mode") is set to OFF. I just tried it. The manual only mentions the midi merge function with "i/f mode" ON. Another undocumented or poorly documented feature I just discovered! With the midi merge switch turned on and the port set to "midi out" but i/f mode ON, the A800 simply makes a direct connection between the IN and OUT midi port (why do they even call it "merge"?). The A800's midi data doesn't appear at the midi out, only the midi from the device connected to the A800's midi input. With i/f mode turned off, both devices' midi streams are merged!] 3 hours ago, Delaware Dave said: it doesn't say how you actually set the port. I'm not sure if you have the same manual but on page 67 I see step-by-step instructions on how to set the port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 19 hours ago, Delaware Dave said: According to the manual on page 11 you need to flip a switch on the side of the unit to midi merge. Then on page 67 you have to set the port to midi out. It says that doing this ".. messages received at the aPro's Midi In will be merged into the APro's Midi Out..". Did you set the port correctly? It's possible that you may have to set the port via the editor, although it doesn't say how you actually set the port. https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/a-800pro/owners_manuals/e25e64e3-cc12-45fb-b968-c7ea6cb8761f/ Thx Dave,- yes I´ve set the switch that way and selected the MIDI Out (which also works from frontpanel menu). The A800 Pro works exactly like the Edirols,- except of it´s pads and D-Beam which the Edirols don´t offer. The Edirols work w/ A300,500,800 drivers too,- just only their Editor doesn´t run on Win8 / 8.1, 10 and up. I was indeed irritated it didn´t work the way I wanted because everything else worked like it should. Now my guess is, it needs to be conected to the host computer via USB, the host running the driver,- but maybe I´m wrong. A800 Pro isn´t here anymore,- just only my Edirol PCR300 and 500 which I owned both anyway. I recognized A800 Pro drivers work only up to Win 8.1,- not Win10 / 11. So GAS is gone. For the time being,- I use ESi Midimate EX connected to MIdi In and MIDI Out of the keyboard and to Win10 host via USB. Works low latency like a charme. I´ll also replace Minitaur w/ C.A. Audio Lowdown B.t.w.,- routing MIDI data being received at a MIDI-In port to a MIdi-Out port wouldn´t be a "Merge" functionality,- that would be "Thru" instead. That´s why I thing the USB connection and driver is needed to merge something,- Physical MIDI-In w/ USB MIDI-In in this case,- then via the driver´s functionality back to the MIDI Outs,- physical and USB. ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 17 hours ago, Reezekeys said: I believe Al wanted to merge notes played on the A800 with midi data received at the A800's midi in and have it all come out the midi out port. Exactly ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 17 hours ago, Reezekeys said: [EDIT - true midi merge can be done if "i/f mode" ("interface mode") is set to OFF. I just tried it. The manual only mentions the midi merge function with "i/f mode" ON. Another undocumented or poorly documented feature I just discovered! With the midi merge switch turned on and the port set to "midi out" but i/f mode ON, the A800 simply makes a direct connection between the IN and OUT midi port (why do they even call it "merge"?). The A800's midi data doesn't appear at the midi out, only the midi from the device connected to the A800's midi input. With i/f mode turned off, both devices' midi streams are merged!] Thx Reezekeys,- I´ll try that again w/ the Edirols ! Unbelievable it´s not documented well. I passed the A800 Pro because of this "issue". It was cheap @Thomann,- but now it´s discontinued. ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Al Coda said: but now it´s discontinued It might only be backordered, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was discontinued seeing how old this keyboard is. There was a period of many months last year or the year before where these A-pro controllers were out of stock. I assumed they were discontinued, but they were eventually available again. I thought it might be supply chain or chip shortage issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Al Coda said: The A800 Pro works exactly like the Edirols,- except of it´s pads and D-Beam which the Edirols don´t offer. There is no D-Beam on the A800 Pro 2 hours ago, Al Coda said: I recognized A800 Pro drivers work only up to Win 8.1,- not Win10 / 11. This is from the Roland US site: https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/a-800pro/updates_drivers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 5, 2022 Share Posted June 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Al Coda said: Unbelievable it´s not documented well. IMO there was a serious disconnect between the engineers in Japan that did the firmware for the APro keyboards, and their US counterparts, or translator for the manual. Page 82 of the manual has the midi implementation chart and at the bottom there is a mention of the "panic" function which transmits the messages "all sound off", "reset controller" and "all notes off." The only problem is that this function doesn't exist! I verified it with Roland US, who contacted Roland Japan to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 23 hours ago, Reezekeys said: There is no D-Beam on the A800 Pro This is from the Roland US site: https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/a-800pro/updates_drivers/ Oh, sorry,- I typed from my head ... It´s not the D-Beam ... the display is different on the PCR-300/ 500/ 800. Drivers: When it was still available @Thomann, it was advertised w/ "Win 8.1" being the latest For the now listed A500 Pro, they say "Win7" and Mac "Snow Leopard" Well, it´s true I should have visited Roland.com site earlier. Availability: Roland A Pro The A 800 Pro ist gone completely and only the A 500 Pro will be "available in several month" again. So, you might be right nd the A800 Pro might return "in several month" too ... A bit late ... ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 23 hours ago, Reezekeys said: Page 82 of the manual has the midi implementation chart and at the bottom there is a mention of the "panic" function which transmits the messages "all sound off", "reset controller" and "all notes off." The only problem is that this function doesn't exist! I verified it with Roland US, who contacted Roland Japan to confirm This is weird because it works on both my Edirol PCR300 and PCR500 keyboards by a simultaneous press and hold the [EDIT] and [PRM MUTE] buttons. In fact, the PCR´s functionality is virtually identical w/ the A Pro series. PCR 800 vs A-800 Pro The changes were more or less cosmetics, the display and kind of reorganization of haptics,- while the PCR seems to offer more,-18 freely programmable pads and a crossfader in addition to the rest. I can imagine the A Pro firmware is somewhat different, introducing bugs now. B.t.w., the PCR300´s action is the worst. PCR500 is significantly better and IMO on par w/ the A500 Pro already. I guess the 500 and 800 are identical actions,- PCR and A-Pro. I´ll try A800 Pro Win10 driver for Edirol PCR,- some say it works or might work. ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 4 hours ago, Al Coda said: I´ll try A800 Pro Win10 driver for Edirol PCR,- some say it works or might work. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, your PCR can operate in class-compliant mode, you don't require a driver. There may be some differences in funtionality between the two modes but nothing I see that would affect basic operation. I have never seen any description of what the "advanced" driver (Roland's term) gives you above the class-compliant driver in terms of performance, and I notice no issues with running in A-Pro in CC mode in my everyday use. [edit - I know they describe their driver as enabling "FPT low-latency MIDI transmission." I just now found this, the first mention I've seen regarding what it is. It seems to offer more stable/faster/less latency throughput in situations with multiple or dense data streams (like you might see in multiport 5-pin midi interfaces) but again, in my simple use of keyboard connected to computer, I feel no difference] - https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/20090330/Fast-Processing-Technology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 4 hours ago, Al Coda said: B.t.w., the PCR300´s action is the worst. PCR500 is significantly better and IMO on par w/ the A500 Pro already. I guess the 500 and 800 are identical actions,- PCR and A-Pro. Before my first A-Pro, I had the predecessor to your unit, the Edirol PCR-M80. From what I remember, the keyboard was the same as what's on my A-Pro. They described the M80 as having a "newly designed key mechanism" so maybe this was the first with this keybed. I liked this little guy, it was smaller and weighed even less than my A800 Pro, and had a proper semitone transpose function! <ducking>! No channel aftertouch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 I installed A - Pro series Win 10/11 driver and it doesn´t work for Edirol. Driver install/uninstall procedures work flawlessly nonetheless,- but w/ the keyboard connected,- after a few seconds the display becomes dark,- means: No power from USB as also not PSU (!!!). And it´s not been recognized as a MIDI device at all from standalone VIs or plugin hosts. I´ll have to look into the manual if there´s an adjustment necessary for "class compliant" mode or if it should work by just only pluggin´ it into the USB port of the host computer as also to find "interface mode" you mentioned above. Because PCRs have a "digit" display and not clear text, I´ll have to find out the displayed codes for these modes,- when these exist in PCR 300-800 firmware. I´ve found 2 other "solutions" (when they work),- a way to install Win 8.1 driver for Win10 usage as also a guide to install 64Bit Win Vista drivers, especially for the PCR300, 500 and 800 to use w/ Win10 x64. get your Roland/Edirol devices to work with Windows 10 - updated ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 Quote I´ll have to look into the manual if there´s an adjustment necessary for "class compliant" mode Page 78 of the manual I downloaded for the PCRs -- set "advanced driver" to off. Make sure to power-cycle afterwards. With my A800 Pro, I also needed to power-cycle after changing the merge port and turning midi merge on or off with the switch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 6, 2022 Share Posted June 6, 2022 Reezekeys,- you´re the man ... I can´t thank you enough for your generous efforts !!! A.C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Between my PCR-M80 and two A800 Pros, I have 16 years with these Roland controllers. It’s the only keyboard I use on gigs. They have their quirks but I know them and I’m used to them. I hope you get your Edirol working the way you want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 On 6/7/2022 at 3:40 PM, Reezekeys said: Between my PCR-M80 and two A800 Pros, I have 16 years with these Roland controllers. It’s the only keyboard I use on gigs. They have their quirks but I know them and I’m used to them. I hope you get your Edirol working the way you want! Thx again, Reezekeys ! It works class compliant w/ Win 10 Pro 64Bit,- and when jumping between the [EDIT] > [Sys] > [S08] IF switch options,- it works w/ ext. Midi modules, I tested w/ Yammi TG77, Roland D550 together w/ plugins in Reaper,- and any application, may it be "standalone" VIs like IK Multimedia B3-X, DAW software and plugins, the BOME Send SX (loading ext. hardware w/ patches), with or without Send SX MIDI thru and via PCR Din MIdi Out, Merge on/off and controllers. I´m surprised how tight MIDI is in class compliant mode w/ Win10 "onboard" Midi drivers. So no Roland/Edirol drivers urgently necessary. Ice on the cake,- I´ve found a pristine Roland A-800 Pro in original box for 160.- bucks and will use it w/ the Win 10 Lenovo workstation laptop. The 2 Edirols can go to 2 rackmount DAW machines now. A big advantage is the almost identical operation of al the 3 keyboards. B.t.w.,- up to now, I couldn´t find out how to operate B3-X drawbar sets w/ only 1 set of 9 sliders from PCR / A-XXX models. B3-X uses individual Midi-CC numbers for each single drawbar on upper and lower manual and just only differenciates MIDI channels (1, 2 & 3) for the manual´s and pedal´s (Midi-) notes. So I guess, the workaround will be using the pads transmitting notes for the "black preset keys" on lower manual and using the sliders in realtime for the upper manual. ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 3 hours ago, Al Coda said: Ice on the cake,- I´ve found a pristine Roland A-800 Pro in original box for 160.- bucks and will use it w/ the Win 10 Lenovo workstation laptop. Wow that's a great find. At most stores here in the USA they're $420 new. 3 hours ago, Al Coda said: B3-X uses individual Midi-CC numbers for each single drawbar on upper and lower manual Yea that might be tough to do with these Rolands. There is the potential of having two separate and consecutive "control maps", identical except the sliders in one are for the lower manual and the sliders for the other map control the upper manual. You can assign the "value knob" at the top left of the keyboard to select control maps - so a quick flick of this detented knob back & forth can switch between the two maps. I'm not sure how reliable this would be "in the heat of battle", so to say... but might be worth a try, if you need more control than the note presets allow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 8 hours ago, Reezekeys said: Wow that's a great find. At most stores here in the USA they're $420 new. Before it was discontinued, Thomann offered it for EUR 299,- incl. 19% VAT and free shipping. But unavailability came soon. The guy selling it recognized he needs a NI Komplete Kontrol S88 mk2 after purchase of the A-800 Pro. So,- to each his own. I´ll try the value knob related control map trick w/ B3-X when the A-800 Pro will be arrived here,- I just got the tracking code. thx a lot for all ! ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 Get a crumar D9x or D9u for your 2nd drawbar set. BTW, I use the 2 map method and it works fine with my arturia keylab essential 49 because you can hit a pad to switch maps. I also have a novation impulse set up with 2 maps but they're switched with an encoder knob which overshoots if your not careful. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 10 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said: Get a crumar D9x or D9u for your 2nd drawbar set. BTW, I use the 2 map method and it works fine with my arturia keylab essential 49 because you can hit a pad to switch maps. I also have a novation impulse set up with 2 maps but they're switched with an encoder knob which overshoots if your not careful. Thank you,- D9x is on my list since some time, so I´ll buy sooner or later,- WHEN I don´t buy a new organ clone before. Yes, assigning maps to buttons or pads would be ideal. ☺️ A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Funster Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 I bought a d9x a few months ago but I got sidetracked and put it away. Just a few days ago I got it out and vecroed to a short carpet covered board and also added a 7 port usb hub with a sound stick and various USB cables and what it comes out to is a portable insta-ready organ when plugged to my phone with vb3m. It can be a 2nd set of drawbars or I can set it on top of the yam psr e343 that my drummer keeps set up and I'm ready to play chest fever without packing a keyboard and stand. Quote FunMachine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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