Studio - Live Rig Pedalboard Build

[benj2017]

Hi all,

 

I am building out a pedal board for my new rig which will be for studio and live use. Since I am starting from the ground-up I thought this might be a useful thread for others doing the same. Here is a rough draft of the basic design for the rig w/ pedal board:

 

[Stokely]

Very cool, and interesting timing:  at the age of 54, after many years of weekend warrior gigging (with almost a couple decades off, to be fair!), I used my first pedalboard ever last gig.  I still have yet to gig with an actual sound-influencing pedal, I just have my Rolls headphone amp and Key Largo on it.  However, just today I put my new Lester K on it and ran a leslie-less Forte preset through it--very nice!  Such a different sound from what I'm able to get on-board...  One problem is that I don't have any outboard fx, so if I wanted verb or delay etc on the organ post-leslie I'd have to add it from our main board (or a sound person would need to do the same if we run sound).  I thought about getting outboard fx but I don't typically use that much reverb for the songs and venues we play.

We have somewhat similar rigs, or at least one of my possible rigs could look like a version of that with my Forte taking the role of Stage 3 and my Summit taking over for the Prophet!   As I stated though I have little in the way of actual pedals going on, but I can feel the possibilities.  Especially for one keyboard gigs.  I ran various patches from the Forte through the Lester K--not just organ--and was coming up with all kinds of interesting things.  I have a Joyo amp sim pedal I got for guitar I may try out with rhodes--though it expects instrument level so that could be a problem.

I notice you have power supplies, whereas I just have a power strip where wall warts plug in.  I think if I expand my pedal setup at all I may look into something like that.  

[benj2017]

Yeah, adding pedals is definitely a rabbit hole and to be clear the onboard fx on the Nord Stage 3, including the Leslie sim, are good enough for any gig. The rev2 Prophet only allows one effect per layer so there is more need there. I started with just the Vent II and a Wurly grinder, and then created a smaller version of this pedal board last year and am now going all in.

 

This pedal board will be on a third tier instead of on the ground and the base board I am using has some cool add-ons. See below:

 

https://www.rockboard.de/en/pedalboards/rockboard-quad-43-pedalboard-with-gig-bag-rbo-b-43-quad-b

 

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

I know you’re already aware of this thread and have contributed there, but I’ll link this here for future readers as well for pedal selection stuff: What do you like on a keyboard effects pedalboard?

[Mighty Motif Max]

I’ve been looking at that Rockboard with the routing expansions - it’s a very neat idea. Otherwise I’m looking at a Pedaltrain Novo 24.

[benj2017]

54 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

I know you’re already aware of this thread and have contributed there, but I’ll link this here for future readers as well for pedal selection stuff: What do you like on a keyboard effects pedalboard?

 

Yeah, I debated just adding to that thread, but decided there was some value in having a separate thread focusing on the build.

 

53 minutes ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

I’ve been looking at that Rockboard with the routing expansions - it’s a very neat idea. Otherwise I’m looking at a PedalTrain Novo 24.

 

I agree, Temple Boards are also nice and have similar options but they are located on the side. Having the slots on the back sold me on the Rockboard line.

 

This site is great for planning out a pedalboard: https://www.pedalplayground.com/

 

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

1 hour ago, benj2017 said:

...

I agree, Temple Boards are also nice and have similar options but they are located on the side. Having the slots on the back sold me on the Rockboard line.

 

This site is great for planning out a pedalboard: https://www.pedalplayground.com/

 

 

I didn't realize Temple Boards did that...side outputs would actually be a bonus for me. Thanks for the tip!

 

I wasn't aware of Pedal Playground - that's awesome! I've just been using Pedaltrain's Pedalboard Planner at https://pedalboardplanner.com/, but that of course is limited to Pedaltrain's own boards.

[stoken6]

Those Rockboard patchbays are cool - I use one on my pedalboard (which is simply a slab of plywood, not a Warwick product) and it really simplifies connecting up.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ABECK]

A studio guitarist would be envious of that pedalboard!  Do you keep that under you board at gigs?  I imagine it would be tough to manage that and sustain/volume pedals as well.  Plus, you'd be kind of blind to what's on or off (without ducking down to see).  Do you have it elevated?

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Those Rockboard patchbays are cool - I use one on my pedalboard (which is simply a slab of plywood, not a Warwick product) and it really simplifies connecting up.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Interesting, so you just mounted one or more of those modules to the plywood?

I really like the idea of having a single plate for connections, one that isn't directly into and out of my Key Largo and Rolls (for the monitor aux) and now my Lester K if I take that out for a spin.   A big factor in how I arranged things on the board was to try to put inputs and outputs on one side, the problem is that this isn't really how I'd ideally arrange everything.   Having this patchbay would mean I don't worry about that.  The two modules posted above would seem right for my needs as well.

[benj2017]

1 hour ago, ABECK said:

A studio guitarist would be envious of that pedalboard!  Do you keep that under you board at gigs?  I imagine it would be tough to manage that and sustain/volume pedals as well.  Plus, you'd be kind of blind to what's on or off (without ducking down to see).  Do you have it elevated?

 

So I am still building out the updated version that is in that diagram but for the first one I built I did it on a third tier, see above.

[benj2017]

OK, I did some more planning using pedalboard playground and have decided to take the Tall & Fat and Wurly Grinder off the board to make room for the new Boss RE-202 Space Echo.

 

The tall and fat has a pretty subtle effect, and I can get pretty close to the Wurly Grinder using the Nord and H9 overdrives.

 

 

 

[Stokely]

So "pedalboard noob" questions...

I have a pretty simple one, for now it's got my Key Largo, Rolls headphone amp, and now a Lester K.

I've been looking today at some of these "fancy" offerings from Temple, Rockboard etc.  Very nice, but one problem I might have is the power supplies.  The KL in particular has a large wall wart that doesn't fit under some--my current ghetto plan is to just have a sideways power strip under the pedalboard with the three wall warts plugged in.  The Donner pedalboard I got has quite a high clearance to it, I made sure of that.

I see that perhaps you all are using a standardized power supply, and don't try to use the original wall wart?  The KL needs 15V and I read something by Radial that says they don't really recommend 18V--do you have something that works with the KL?

Assuming I stuck with my more modest pedalboard and not go with these module ones, any thoughts on how a small TRS patch bay would work (attached securely on top or under the back)?  Hosa and ART both make 8-channel ones, I'd need a max of 8.  I'd need to use some XLR adapters (or similarly, with an XLR patch bay I'd need to use 1/4" adapters).   I don't really need a "patch bay" but both of the two I mentioned can work as denormalized pass throughs I think.  The benefit would be all non-power connections coming to one spot, allowing the pedals to be placed optimally without concern for this (and of course saving the jacks).

They are both rather cheap  so I'm thinking of taking a flyer on this one:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MHB350--hosa-mhb-350-8-point-1-4-inch-trs-balanced-patchbay-module

[benj2017]

2 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I see that perhaps you all are using a standardized power supply, and don't try to use the original wall wart?  The KL needs 15V and I read something by Radial that says they don't really recommend 18V--do you have something that works with the KL
 

 

So the Eventide Power Max has an option to configure four of its 7 outputs for either 9V, 12V, 15V, or 18V DC. This is how I am powering the Vent and how I will power the Key Largo. The other issue that comes up is whether the unit you are powering requires center negative or positive plugs. The most common is negative for Boss pedals and the Strymon Big Sky (and probably most other Strymons), but the H9's need center positive. The Eventide H9s can take 9V or 12V, but the Strymon Big Sky (and probably all Strymons) can't take more than 9V.

 

9 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Assuming I stuck with my more modest pedalboard and not go with these module ones, any thoughts on how a small TRS patch bay would work (velcroed on top or under the back)?  Hosa and ART both make 8-channel ones, I'd need a max of 8.  I'd need to use some XLR adapters (or similarly, with an XLR patch bay I'd need to use 1/4" adapters).   I don't really need a "patch bay" but both of the two I mentioned can work as denormalized pass throughs I think.  The benefit would be all non-power connections coming to one spot, allowing the pedals to be placed optimally without concern for this (and of course saving the jacks).

 

I am still figuring out how I am going to handle this to be honest using the modules, but velcroing the patchbay under the board at the back with the inputs (from keys) facing out is prob the way to go.

[Stokely]

I need to look into that Eventide.  I believe our guitarist has something very similar, different brand I think.  It's expensive but I wouldn't need to buy backup power supplies for three devices as I intended , I'd just keep the ones that came with them in my backup bag.

Edit:  That Eventide mini unit seems like it might work for me.  It's up to four pedals and also has a setting for 15V.  Except...blargh, it has a kind of wall wart itself, unlike the iec cable of the powermax! 

If I went with that, I might consider returning my tall pedalboard (if I still can) and going with that Rockboard.  I prefer side connections as well but with the Temple ones I'd have to get a module on each side I think (to get 8 connections).

I'll have as many as five cables coming from keyboards (2 stereo pairs, one mono organ only from the Forte's other output, this goes to the Lester K).  Then I'd have two for the outputs of the Key Largo, and the last one is the aux send coming from FOH, this gets routed into my Rolls.  

Edit 2 (since mine is still last post)
I note that the KL is 15V but center positive.  When using these Eventide/cioks universal power supplies, is that an issue?  Seems like most pedals are center negative.  I saw a chart of the various cables that come with the Cioks DC7, do these handle polarity changes?

[stoken6]

19 hours ago, Stokely said:

Interesting, so you just mounted one or more of those modules to the plywood?

Exactly. I attached ttwo pine uprights to the plywood base, and used the MOD3 mounting holes on the front plate (intended to fit it in a 

Hardly a work of art, but very functional. And the MOD3 has (within 14.3%) the connectivity I need:

- Keyboard audio jack out

- Keyboard audio DI XLR out

- Mic XLR out

- Foldback jack in

- Foldback XLR in

- Power passthru to my entire rig

(one spare jack)

 

I posted the above pic to this thread: https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/172628-guitarists-have-the-best-toys/#comment-2746769 - since then I've replaced the crappy Proel footswitches with a Studiologic VFP-2 double sustain pedal, which I modified to have jack sockets on the back rather than a captive lead. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[benj2017]

20 hours ago, Stokely said:

'll have as many as five cables coming from keyboards (2 stereo pairs, one mono organ only from the Forte's other output, this goes to the Lester K).  Then I'd have two for the outputs of the Key Largo, and the last one is the aux send coming from FOH, this gets routed into my Rolls.  

 

Yeah, keep in mind that those modules support TRS connections so your stereo inputs would only need to take up 1 input jack on the module.  You can then use Y cables to to make connections from the keyboards and then under the pedal board to various pedals, etc.

 

20 hours ago, Stokely said:

Edit 2 (since mine is still last post)
I note that the KL is 15V but center positive.  When using these Eventide/cioks universal power supplies, is that an issue?  Seems like most pedals are center negative.  I saw a chart of the various cables that come with the Cioks DC7, do these handle polarity changes?

 

So I am not an expert on this, but my understanding is that center positive / negative only refers to the tip of the cable so to connect everything correctly you would just need to make sure you have the correct cable. Eventide provides some cables options with the power supply, but you can also find cables and adapters online.

[kaptainkeys]

59 minutes ago, benj2017 said:

Yeah, keep in mind that those modules support TRS connections so your stereo inputs would only need to take up 1 input jack on the module.  You can then use Y cables to to make connections from the keyboards and then under the pedal board to various pedals, etc.

TRS does not mean that it is stereo.  TRS either means that it is a balanced mono connection, like the output jacks on most keyboards except for Nords (for some reason), or TRS means an unbalanced stereo connection, like a pair of headphones.  They are not the same thing and are not interchangeable, unless specifically marked otherwise.

[benj2017]

9 minutes ago, GotKeys said:

TRS does not mean that it is stereo.  TRS either means that it is a balanced mono connection, like the output jacks on most keyboards except for Nords (for some reason), or TRS means an unbalanced stereo connection, like a pair of headphones.  They are not the same thing and are not interchangeable, unless specifically marked otherwise.

 Yeah, not sure if I didn't communicate this correctly or if you don't understand how these modules work. They are essentially just pass through patchbays for various connections types. So in this case I believe the stereo signal just passes through the tip/ring connections and if you used an Y-cable to take left and right out of any keyboard and then use the TRS end into the module, it would then pass a stereo signal out to be routed under the board however you see fit. From the Rockboard website:

 

The 4x TRS thru connections will also work great for true stereo setups with keyboards or synthesizers. It can also be used to run several pedals from your board through the effects loop of your amp, or as a central access point to your pedalboard via its 4x TRS thru connections.

 

Maybe I am missing something here?

 

[Stokely]

Hmm, that indeed might change things if stereo works, it would reduce my connections down to four (three stereo pairs, one mono).  Needing only one module vs two would make a big difference in cost as well as allow for a smaller pedalboard (only the bigger ones have two spots iirc).

I shot a question to both Temple and Rockboard about feasibility, can't hurt even if I look dumb!

[Stokely]

Too late to tack on to my previous comment, but Rockboard sent me a friendly response:

"All ¼"/6.3 mm jacks are TRS thru and mirrored on the backside, so you can use them as a common, stereo, TRS connection."

So that might mean I'd go for a smaller Rockboard with a single Mod, it should barely cover my needs.  Not ideally, one of the TRS Y cables would need to handle signal from two very different sources:  my aux send, and my mono organ out.  That part I don't like; the stereo pairs can have the Y adapter stay attached to the cable(s) but this one will take some fiddling each time I connect it. 

To complicate things, our bandleader (owns PA) said he's considering going back to our QSC mixer only for monitoring, and bringing some splitters in the rack so that no matter who is running sound we'd use it for monitors.  This is important because it has enough monitor sends for me to get stereo, and this would put me over the 8 limit.  So I'm going to hold off with plans until I find out more about that.   It would be a major change in wiring, since if I can always get a stereo feed from our QSC mixer, I don't need to use separate keyboard monitoring at all via my Rolls/KL, and the pedalboard wiring would change under the hood.

 

[stoken6]

On 4/20/2022 at 9:05 PM, Stokely said:

I'll have as many as five cables coming from keyboards (2 stereo pairs, one mono organ only from the Forte's other output, this goes to the Lester K).  Then I'd have two for the outputs of the Key Largo, and the last one is the aux send coming from FOH, this gets routed into my Rolls.  

 

47 minutes ago, Stokely said:

smaller Rockboard with a single Mod, it should barely cover my needs.  Not ideally, one of the TRS Y cables would need to handle signal from two very different sources:  my aux send, and my mono organ out.  That part I don't like; the stereo pairs can have the Y adapter stay attached to the cable(s) but this one will take some fiddling each time I connect it. 

If I'm counting correctly, you plan on using:

- 1x TRS for keyboard 1 stereo

- 1x TRS for keyboard 2 stereo

- 1x TRS for mono organ shared with FoH aux send

- 1x TRS for KL out FOH left

- 1x TRS for KL out FOH right

 

Is that correct? If so, I don't think there's much benefit to route the KL output through the MOD1. Just take the FoH output straight off the KL. 

 

Alternatively, you could use the XLR for one of the KL outputs, but my OCD overrules that...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stokely]

Yep, you got it.

 

True, I could just connect XLRs from the KL directly.  

If we do go to the QSC, then instead of that one FoH aux, I'd be getting a TRS comprised of two auxes (the QSC combines them helpfully in one connector).  Stereo monitors are great simply because I can pan guitars and vocals a bit, allowing me to turn down since I can hear more clearly.

The other thing that occurred to me--going back to a different Key Largo discussion--is going mono.  I think it should still work even if the KL is prewired on both sides per channel, I'd simply use whatever main out I plugged each keyboard into.  X factor here is the stereo monitor outs that go to my Rolls, that might mean I only get keys on one side.  I'll need to test this, since the Rolls will be prewired from the KL in the pedalboard. I'm using a Y cable currently that takes the two monitor KL outs and combines them to the single TRS the Rolls accepts.   I need to get a decision about that QSC because that same TRS stereo aux could be routed to that Rolls input, no need for the KL monitors at that point.  This all probably sounds like stream of consciousness gobble-de-gook, as does everyone else's rig when they try to explain it!  

Definitely simpler just to go mono all the time, and I'm giving it some thought I can tell you!


 

[stoken6]

23 minutes ago, Stokely said:

The other thing that occurred to me--going back to a different Key Largo discussion--is going mono.  I think it should still work even if the KL is prewired on both sides per channel, I'd simply use whatever main out I plugged each keyboard into.  X factor here is the stereo monitor outs that go to my Rolls, that might mean I only get keys on one side.  I'll need to test this, since the Rolls will be prewired from the KL in the pedalboard

The Rolls has a jumper to switch its inputs to mono, doesn't it? (I also have the PM351, and it can switch either/both LINE IN and/or INST IN to mono or stereo). So you could go mono through the KL, bring that side into the Rolls (jumpered to mono) and have a centre-panned mono image in your IEMs.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stokely]

Holy crap, it does.  I've only owned it for a few weeks and once I hooked it up to the KL and started gigging (in stereo) I haven't even glanced at it!

That was pretty much my last possible obstacle...and your idea of just using the KL main outs means I'd have room or either a mono or stereo monitor feed.

I think the Temple mod jacks are the same.  Their module doesn't have an IEC power output though.  

I guess if I got the smaller cioks/eventide power brick I wouldn't be able to use the IEC passthrough--because it uses a dc power supply--which might mean I'd get the larger version that has IEC output (even though it's overkill for my needs).

Speaking of that Rolls, I think my bass player also has the 351.  It's better than mine (P55) because it has two stereo inputs...but it lacks a limiter...do you use a standalone limiter, or just forego it?
 

[benj2017]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

That was pretty much my last possible obstacle...and your idea of just using the KL main outs means I'd have room or either a mono or stereo monitor feed.

 

This is good to know because I am going to be using the Key Largo and Rolls PM351.  However, I have a Motion Sound KP 610-S which has the option of either stereo XLR outputs or 1/4 inch mono output so I'll be using that for FOH feeds.

 

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

I guess if I got the smaller cioks/eventide power brick I wouldn't be able to use the IEC passthrough--because it uses a dc power supply--which might mean I'd get the larger version that has IEC output (even though it's overkill for my needs).

 

If money isn't a problem I would go for the Power Max, you can always expand it later and add the Power Mini and it has a USB out on it for charging, etc.

[Stokely]

Yeah, If I go in that direction at all of a new power supply I'd probably just go with the big model.

I'd kind of have to get one with these Rockboard and Temple pedalboards, as they look kind of low in clearance.  My Donner is quite tall, legs extended it fits a power strip mounted sideways in a gap with the wall warts connected easily.  The slats are moveable so I widened it to make this possible.  And still fits in its bag.  I'll have to make a decision as my return window closes soon!

The big thing I'm currently missing (besides a really fancy look!) is easy audio connections for the keyboards to the Key Largo.  I wonder if some kind of short adapter "snake" that stays connected to the KL makes sense.  There's every chance I could be over-thinking this

 

[Stokely]

Hey, page two?  That will not do!  

I've come to a realization after our last two "higher level" gigs (we auditioned for a local resort area and now we have regular gigs there).  They run everything mono, in fact one of the venues just hands you a mono wireless pack, you supply the earbuds.  If I could go stereo all the time, I would, but I can't.  What I'm tired of is switching between the two and trying to optimize patches that work in either case.  Still mulling this over but having a mono rig is definitely simpler and would affect options for this pedalboard.  Happily, both of my organ options (B-3X and the Lester pedal) sound fine in mono.  Pianos are a bit of a challenge, they thin out a lot ("plinky" is how I'd describe them) so I have some work to do. I had one patch I use for "only the lonely" get super loud in mono last night, whoops....

There's also the issue that most of the band also monitors in mono.  At some gigs everyone does.  So knowing they aren't getting some big jump in volume up or down would be good, since I'd be hearing the same thing as them.

I'm at the deadline for returning my Donner pedalboard, and I think I just might even though the Rockboard may not have enough height clearance for a power strip and wall warts.  I'll make do until I go with the Cioks or eventide power brick, I think that will just be better and I as I mentioned those wall warts will still have utility as backups!

I'm kind of excited by the idea of pedals.  I do have a few, but being guitar pedals is there an issue with incoming level?   Another possibility if I wanted to expend drives and fx would be to just get a Line 6 stomp or something....if I ever get my head out about playing guitar, this was my target modeler for that.

[benj2017]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

I've come to a realization after our last two "higher level" gigs (we auditioned for a local resort area and now we have regular gigs there).  They run everything mono, in fact one of the venues just hands you a mono wireless pack, you supply the earbuds.  If I could go stereo all the time, I would, but I can't.  What I'm tired of is switching between the two and trying to optimize patches that work in either case. 

 Agreed, however I think most keyboard patches with stereo panning and even stereo fx pedals sum to mono pretty well, using either a stereo summing box or in my case the mono output out of my motion sound. Obviously, this will vary depending on the sound in question, but the phase cancellation issues with piano patches seem to be the main issue.  The Nord has the option of running your acoustic piano in mono mode, and Yamaha has some nice mono pianos.

 

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

There's also the issue that most of the band also monitors in mono.  At some gigs everyone does.  So knowing they aren't getting some big jump in volume up or down would be good, since I'd be hearing the same thing as them.

 

Yeah, dealing with levels is tough, I wish the Key Largo had a level meter for fine-tuning volume, but I can use my Allen and Heath for that at home anyway.  I am going to use the Rolls PM351 to sub-mix the mono monitor send and my stereo keys for in-ears for this rig. My wedding/cover band board rig is the MODX7 with B3-X and I am going to try out a Roland GO-Mixer Pro-X for that set-up.

[benj2017]

OK, got the pedals up and running to test out, waiting on the Key Largo and Rolls PM351. Went with the Volante instead of the Boss for tape echo/delay.  Top row is the Prophet FX chain and bottom row is the Nord keys /synth FX chain and Nord organ FX chain. Got a decent amount of noise right now, and cabling is still a mess and am still figuring out the plan for midi. Highlights right now are the Zelzah and Volante with the H9 hall reverb algorithm for fun Rhodes sounds and the Rev2 sounds great with the H9 for modulation FX and the Timeline/Big Sky. Only thing I am really missing is a compressor pedal to go after the Vent, but oh well....