Inexpensive Midi Keyboard Controller with Aftertouch, Wheels and a Few Knobs?

[Drew Schlesinger]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a 3-4 octave midi keyboard controller that has aftertouch, wheels and a few (3 minimum) assignable knobs? Thoughts would be most appreciated, thanks.

[ElmerJFudd]

Price range? 
 

https://novationmusic.com/en/keys

 

https://nektartech.com/panorama-t4-t6-controller/

 

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

M-Audio Code 49.

 

for sale

 

another for sale

[AnotherScott]

Samson Graphite 49 is another possibility. I think it has a nice action, and it's aftertouch, wheels, sliders, knobs, pads. No expression pedal jack, so you'd have to add something like an Audiofront adapter if you need that.

[Art-0252]

Don't know price range but Arturia Keystep 37 immediately comes to mind as checking all those boxes.

[Drew Schlesinger]

Thanks for these, I will check them all out!

 

[Irena]

A few years ago I was in the market for something around that price point with the feature set you've described, and had a chance to try a bunch. One thing I was struck by was how difficult the aftertouch is to control on these boards.  I was expecting a major step down from pricier AT implementations, but was still surprised by how hard it was for my hands to trigger a sustained and stable AT value anywhere in between 0 and 127.  It made me reexamine my AT requirement, for I couldn't see using the AT on these boards much in practice to modulate LFO depth, filter cutoff, etc. where I need something finer than binary control. You may have a better experience and/or may only need simple on/off control, but I ultimately ended up relaxing the AT requirement and found some good non-AT options which to me seemed like better boards overall. I was particularly impressed with the NI A49--no AT, but a solid build quality, and for my fingers a surprisingly good action compared to other boards around its price. 

[marino]

I've been looking for something similar for years, but it seems that it simply doesn't exist. Inexpensive, with aftertouch, wheels, *a few* assignable knobs/sliders. Aftertouch especially, if you want it you're supposed to get the complete package, with 16 sliders, pads, zones, sequencer, arpeggiators...

I ended up buying a Novation SL 49 MKII, but I'm not really happy with it: The velocity response is too brutal (even with the various curves), the UI really complex, it has a ton of wonderful functions that I will never use, and no wheels. I have used it very little.

I think we have a nice market segment open here. If somebody comes up with a simple, portable keyboard with aftertouch and wheels, and just a few assignable controllers, for 100-120 Eur/$, it could be a success.

[Reezekeys]

On 4/19/2022 at 4:26 PM, Irena said:

I was expecting a major step down from pricier AT implementations, but was still surprised by how hard it was for my hands to trigger a sustained and stable AT value anywhere in between 0 and 127. 

 

I'll admit to hardly ever using AT on my controller (Roland A800 Pro) but I would probably not buy another controller without it. Better to have and not need than the other way around. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the above quote, but I don't see using AT to do anything where I need a "sustained and stable" value output. I use it to add a little "juice" to a sound, a momentary swell, filter opening, or slight pitch bend, stuff like that; the kind of thing where exact values aren't a consideration and the effect you want is short-lasting. If I needed to open a filter or swell a note an exact amount and keep it there a while, I'd probably assign the parameter to a fader or expression pedal - otherwise my hands would get tired very quickly! If you meant more in the overall ability to precisely modulate the amount of AT, I'm with you there - I'm guessing most keyboard manufacturers don't spend big bucks on the pressure-sensitive strips they use; maybe there aren't any that are better. At least my A800 has a trimpot inside that lets you adjust the sensitivity. Stock from the factory the AT is hard to engage, but I fixed that by adjusting the pot to max CW.

[AnotherScott]

35 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

I don't see using AT to do anything where I need a "sustained and stable" value output. I use it to add a little "juice" to a sound, a momentary swell, filter opening, or slight pitch bend, stuff like that; the kind of thing where exact values aren't a consideration and the effect you want is short-lasting. If I needed to open a filter or swell a note an exact amount and keep it there a while, I'd probably assign the parameter to a fader or expression pedal

Agreed. Pedal, fader, or wheel for holding something in place or when you need precision. But it's really nice to use AT to introduce modulation. And even pitch bends that don't require precision. Like there's a harmonica sound on one of my boards where you can use aftertouch to "dip" the pitch. These are not things where you have to be "right on" a particular value.

[stoken6]

3 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Agreed. Pedal, fader, or wheel for holding something in place or when you need precision. But it's really nice to use AT to introduce modulation. And even pitch bends that don't require precision. Like there's a harmonica sound on one of my boards where you can use aftertouch to "dip" the pitch. These are not things where you have to be "right on" a particular value.

I like the heretical use of aftertouch to switch Leslie speed. I know that I'm dead to all of you as a result of this opinion, but it allows a switch without taking either hand off the keys AND without needing a pedal. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Irena]

My use of "sustained /stable" was confusing re: the degree of control I look for in AT, and I agree with the subsequent posts that call it out. Agreed that for anything where real precision is required, an EP, knob or slider is the way to go. The use case I'm thinking of is something like LFO depth during a synth solo, where I might want to trigger "a little" vibrato on one note for a sustained period, and later "a lot" on another.  (Ditto for a swell.) The actual AT values are wiggling around a fair bit, but for practical purposes I have a few shades of grey to work with. With the AT on a ~$500/controller (e.g., Novation SL, Arturia Keylab, Nektar P4) I'm able to get the granularity I need, but with some of these less expensive boards, even with slow and deliberate attempts I have a hard time triggering anything other  than 0 or 127.

 

  

 

[GovernorSilver]

The aftertouch  on the Keystep 37 as a controller for MC-707 works well for me, with all of the tweaking to AT sensitivity being on the MC-707 side.  Velocity seems ok for me too.  

[AUSSIEKEYS]

On 4/20/2022 at 6:26 AM, Irena said:

 but I ultimately ended up relaxing the AT requirement and found some good non-AT options which to me seemed like better boards overall.

 

 

Yes Irena I agree and it opens up a broader range to choose from with better implemented "other" features.

 

Whenever i did gig with an aftertouch board live i cant ever remember using aftertouch much if any. 

 

Ironically playing live i find myself constantly moving my fingers on the keys sideways subconsciously trying to get bending or modulation by sideways montion on my piano weighted Privia. Something akin to a guitarist bending a note i guess.

 

This to me would be ultimate in expression. I have seen some startups experimenting with said keys but dont think anything has been produced yet??

 

I do think Uli's polyphonic aftertouch is appealing as its appears may be lowcost board. I figure bending one note via after touch approximates realism than bending or modulating all notes of normal after touch

 

[marino]

On 4/23/2022 at 2:03 AM, AUSSIEKEYS said:

Ironically playing live i find myself constantly moving my fingers on the keys sideways subconsciously trying to get bending or modulation by sideways montion on my piano weighted Privia. Something akin to a guitarist bending a note i guess.

 

This to me would be ultimate in expression. I have seen some startups experimenting with said keys but dont think anything has been produced yet??

 

A few synths in history (Ondes Martenot, Ondioline, the third manual on the Yamaha GX-1) had a mechanism sending a control signal by slightly wiggling the key (actually, the whole keyboard) sideways. This can be used for vibratos that sound much more natural than those produced by lfos. On a synth with a decent voice channel, you could map that to pitch, but also filter, volume, etc. depending on your needs.

I have always wondered how hard it could be to implement that on a modern synth or controller. Not sophisticated as a Roli or Osmose, but it should feel very natural to a keyboard player, almost no practice needed.

What you think?

Here at 1:05

 

[Mr -G-]

Would really love to see that in modern controllers. I suppose it would just require the keybed to be on some sort of rail or suspended with springs and a transducer. It might make the instrument a bit more fragile (think vibration during transport) although some mechanical  lock would easily prevent unwanted movement.

Apparently this was introduced in the Ondes Martenot in 1930!!

[Reezekeys]

Somewhere in the back of my mind I'm remembering hearing about a keyboard whose keys could read finger position and trigger different controller data depending on where you moved your finger along its surface. These were not membrane keys like the Roli, but more normal in feel.

[AnotherScott]

19 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Somewhere in the back of my mind I'm remembering hearing about a keyboard whose keys could read finger position and trigger different controller data depending on where you moved your finger along its surface. These were not membrane keys like the Roli, but more normal in feel.

Osmose?

[Reezekeys]

I forgot about the Osmose. The website says "available soon" but it's been a pretty long while now. That may be the keyboard I'm remembering. I might have hallucinated seeing one that actually followed your exact finger location on the keys, a la touchscreen interface. The Osmose does not do that, as far as I can tell.

[funkyhammond]

53 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

I forgot about the Osmose. The website says "available soon" but it's been a pretty long while now. That may be the keyboard I'm remembering. I might have hallucinated seeing one that actually followed your exact finger location on the keys, a la touchscreen interface. The Osmose does not do that, as far as I can tell.

 

Actually, if you click at the top of the page where it says development update, you will see a timeline that shows that they are set to start delivering this year.

[David Emm]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:59 AM, stoken6 said:

I like the heretical use of aftertouch to switch Leslie speed. I know that I'm dead to all of you as a result of this opinion, but it allows a switch without taking either hand off the keys AND without needing a pedal. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

I boggle slightly at the 9-sliders thing, as its hard to imagine anyone playing them like the traditional long-throw version on real Hammonds. That technique is very much about grab-ability, an area in which budget controllers are notoriously stingy. Jimmy Smith would have run onstage and slapped you'd if you offered him that. They're mostly just handy tone controls for me. I apologize to the serious organists who drew back and hissed when they read that.

[Doerfler]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:59 AM, stoken6 said:

I like the heretical use of aftertouch to switch Leslie speed. I know that I'm dead to all of you as a result of this opinion, but it allows a switch without taking either hand off the keys AND without needing a pedal. 

 

 

Roughly 30 years ago, I used this feature on an Ensoniq SQ2 keyboard. Ensoniq had sampled Papa DeFrancesco's Hammond B3. Organ and Leslie sim wasn't bad for what it cost.

Can't ever remember anyone walking out of a gig I was on because they didn't like the Hammond sound.

[bill5]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:30 PM, marino said:

I've been looking for something similar for years, but it seems that it simply doesn't exist. Inexpensive, with aftertouch, wheels, *a few* assignable knobs/sliders. Aftertouch especially

You must not have looked very hard 

 

https://www.thomannmusic.com/swissonic_controlkey_88.htm

https://www.guitarcenter.com/M-Audio/Oxygen-Pro-61-61-Key-1500000333141.gc

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Nektar/Panorama-T6-61-Key-USB-MIDI-Keyboard-Controller-1500000234845.gc

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Nektar/Impact-GXP61-MIDI-Controller-Keyboard-1500000359878.gc

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/keyboards-midi/roland-a-800pro-61-key-midi-keyboard-controller/h70672000000000
 

All under $500 and at least 61 keys. I have not used so can't say how good they are, but they are out there. 

 

 

[marino]

@bill5:

I looked pretty hard. In fact, you forgot the Novation SL series and a few others. Actually, I have bought several keyboard controllers in that range. And the ones you listed are mostly quite recent.

 

I was trying to sympathize with the OP, who asked for an

Inexpensive Midi Keyboard Controller with Aftertouch, Wheels and a Few Knobs.