What NOT to Do when your Bandmate Makes a Mistake

[HammondDave]

42 minutes ago, TommyRude said:

HammondDave, I give that look a lot, but it means "I can't believe we're still doing this and getting paid"

You better believe it!  This week I got paid in Pork!  

[marino]

I have stories! First one coming to mind: At an outdoor summer festival, the so-called "front man" made a blatant mistake, then turned to me yelling, "what THE HECK are you doing?!". Loud and clear, so everybody could get it. What an ass. I was almost about to throw him out of stage. Of course, he was the poorest musician in the group.

 

My dose of shame: I was reharsing with a new group, when an important concert came up unexpectedly. No time to prepare properly: We did what we could. On one piece I had never played yet, the guitarist/composer said: "Look, the changes are really easy, no need to write them down. It goes so-so-so". We played it once in reharsal, and it went fine. Then at the concert, I forgot the only and one chord that was outside the main key, and something similar to a Stockhausen harmony came out. I wished I could sink under the stage!

 

The best of all: Many years ago, I was doing classical concerts with a flute player. On one occasion in the North of Italy, we both arrived at the last minute from different places, with little time to speak before the start of the concert. So we got onstage, and we started two *different* Mozart sonatas.

We stopped, our faces where white. I think I lost a few months of life in that moment! Then luckily, I found the presence of spirit to say something funny, the audience laughed, and everything went well after that.

 

Which brings me to that Maria Joao Pires video. I absolutely love her playing, and seeing the desperation on her face when she realized that she had prepared the wrong Mozart Concerto brought me memories of that similar episode that I experienced in my little world. The fact that she was able to recall and play the D minor Concerto at a moment's notice is astounding. Even more respect and admiration for a great artist.

 

[MathOfInsects]

I've told this before, but...I played a gig where the bass went more and more out of tune as the night went on. By the last song it was at a perfectly annoying spot between two pitches. He kept making eye contact with me like, "What's wrong with your equipment?" I thought he was kidding. After that song was over (last song of the show), he said, "Dude, what was that? I didn't know those things (meaning, my keyboard) could go out of tune like that." And he wasn't kidding. 

[wineandkeyz]

7 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I've told this before, but...I played a gig where the bass went more and more out of tune as the night went on. By the last song it was at a perfectly annoying spot between two pitches. He kept making eye contact with me like, "What's wrong with your equipment?" I thought he was kidding. After that song was over (last song of the show), he said, "Dude, what was that? I didn't know those things (meaning, my keyboard) could go out of tune like that." And he wasn't kidding. 

 

On a related note, I own an Alesis QS8.2 that I loaned to a local bar to use for their open mic night. (It was mostly for my own convenience, though, since no one else ever seemed to use it.)

 

One night, some friends on guitar and bass invited me up to play. As the song went on, I noticed that one or both of them were going horribly out of tune. But I also noticed they were both giving me the side-eye. When we finished the bass player (coincidentally) said, "I didn't know a keyboard could go out of tune." I said, "They can't" and proceeded to play a hideous little run that seemed to go sharp, then flat and back again. And that, dear hearts, is how I learned about the infamous Alesis pitch-wheel problem. I ended up disabling the pitch wheel on all the bread-and-butter patches so I could still use the keyboard.

[Stokely]

8 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I've told this before, but...I played a gig where the bass went more and more out of tune as the night went on. By the last song it was at a perfectly annoying spot between two pitches. He kept making eye contact with me like, "What's wrong with your equipment?" I thought he was kidding. After that song was over (last song of the show), he said, "Dude, what was that? I didn't know those things (meaning, my keyboard) could go out of tune like that." And he wasn't kidding. 

It's hilarious how players of stringed instruments *that have to be tuned* like to blame keyboard players for being out of tune.  Especially hilarious when it's a digital keyboard.

Something kept going out of tune during one practice, this band had two guitar players and I knew it was one of them.  I was trying to be nice and between songs i just said "can we check tuning?"   Immediately they both got defensive and said "why don't you check your tuning?!"  Ok, I did, and shockingly, my Motif was exactly in tune.   They checked their tuning then and very oddly they both were in tune.  We played the next song and everything was fine.  We played the next one after that and lo the bad tuning was back.   Long story short, one of the guitarists was strictly rhythm and his approach to playing rhythm on most songs was to capo up on his SG so that he could play big ol strummed "cowboy chords" on any song.  Sure enough the capo--or rather his misuse of it--was causing the issue.

[kaptainkeys]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

Sure enough the capo--or rather his misuse of it--was causing the issue.

Maybe it was the fact that he was using a Gibson?  The headstock designs on those guitars make them go out of tune real quick.  Friend of mine who is a drummer was recording with a guitarist who was using an SG for double tracked rhythm guitars and they didn't tune between takes, and they ended up with an awful chorusing effect that got worse and worse with each track.

[MAJUSCULE]

Lol, the lead guitar player on my recent gig had his bridge come loose during the official SXSW showcase. Goldtop SG, real nice guitar. Came in after a breakdown and hit the most sour chord possible.  Quickly retuned, came back in... and went right back out again.  Had to finish the gig on his other guitar.

[Stokely]

16 minutes ago, GotKeys said:

Maybe it was the fact that he was using a Gibson?  The headstock designs on those guitars make them go out of tune real quick.  Friend of mine who is a drummer was recording with a guitarist who was using an SG for double tracked rhythm guitars and they didn't tune between takes, and they ended up with an awful chorusing effect that got worse and worse with each track.

Yeah that probably made it worse, especially when he's strumming hard across all the strings like it's a campfire acoustic.

Our current guitarist has had tuning issues with his Les Pauls, but the worst yet is his brand new PRS.  It's kind of driving me nuts, and he hears it and corrects it between songs, but I'm hoping there can be some resolution.   It can be a touchy subject to bring up, especially when it's a multi-thousand dollar purchase.

I also had a pitch bend issue happen, with my Kurzweil pc361 being used as a controller.  I couldn't figure out how softsynths were going out of tune (???!!) until I saw the midi event window and saw a bunch of random pitch messages (where I wasn't using the wheel at all.)  

Back in the day my Poly 800 would sometimes jump about a quarter-step out of tune.  I became expert at knowing just where to hold the pitchstick until it decided to jump back

[Legatoboy]

I immediately point at them and then do that... gig, rehearsal, it don't matter... If I'm home and make mistake I do the same thing to myself  only I point to myself and talk to myself in the 3rh person... No, usually something gets mentioned on  break about how 'we', or 'the person' will have to go over the part/music at rehearsal again before the next gig .... we all know that story!  Sometimes if it's a total embarrassment that causes a Clunker for the whole band (yes it has happened)...  I hide from the audience and won't look at them (kidding).... it's music...  in an of itself it's harmless, it's not air traffic control, we all try not to make mistakes ... what was it, one finger against the arm was a $30 fine in James Brown's band for a 'perceived clunker'..... 2 touches of a finger on the arm - $60 bucks.... etc..funny thing is... often the player wasn't making a mistake but James heard it as one,....more $ for the big boy at the end of the night.   

 

[analogika]

1 hour ago, Legatoboy said:

I immediately point at them and then do that... gig, rehearsal, it don't matter... If I'm home and make mistake I do the same thing to myself  only I point to myself and talk to myself in the 3rh person... No, usually something gets mentioned on  break about how 'we', or 'the person' will have to go over the part/music at rehearsal again before the next gig .... we all know that story!  Sometimes if it's a total embarrassment that causes a Clunker for the whole band (yes it has happened)...  I hide from the audience and won't look at them (kidding).... it's music...  in an of itself it's harmless, it's not air traffic control, we all try not to make mistakes ... what was it, one finger against the arm was a $30 fine in James Brown's band for a 'perceived clunker'..... 2 touches of a finger on the arm - $60 bucks.... etc..funny thing is... often the player wasn't making a mistake but James heard it as one,....more $ for the big boy at the end of the night.   

 

His biography mentioned that he’d throw a party at years’ end from the money. Cool, if true. 

[Docbop]

With James Brown a lot of the $$$ mistakes were missing one of his visual/dance moves.  So not only playing but constantly watching James for cues. 

 

Funny reading this thread and  remembering a video of great guitarist Robben Ford.   Robben said just got a new I think bass player in his band and it was the bass players first gig with him.    They finish the show and Robben looks at the new guy and he's all frustrated and looking sad.   Robben asks what wrong and the guy says I made some mistakes.   Robben just laughs and says....   If you're not making mistakes your not having fun and playing is about having fun.   

 

Robben was in Miles Davis band twice and I think Miles version of that comment was....   If you're not making mistakes you're not going for it, that's what we're about is pushing it. 

[cassdad]

Well, I understand the comments positioning that one should be kind, the mistake is already made so can’t be changed, discuss it later, etc.  However, I have been in a situation where a band member constantly makes repeated mistakes, and getting worse as more and more alcohol flows.  And if I raise the issue later, they are in denial, thus forcing me to point out the errors real time.  I’m not a tea-totaler by any means, but some just can’t handle drinking while playing, and they get louder and louder, and somehow think the volume will cover up their mistakes.  Just sayin’.

[o0Ampy0o]

Isn’t the Pink Floyd song a composition of sour notes by design? At that point in their history Waters was probably only one of two people who could recognize the mistake. It was sort like Hendrix doing a BOOM! instead of a BAM! during Machine Gun. 
 

Roger Waters’s In The Flesh DVD contains a mistake by his guitarist Doyle Bramhall II during SOYCD. No camera captures a Waters reaction. Within a moment he is shown singing the next line. Bramhall is shown laughing and looking at another bandmate not in the shot. While some fans may catch it you would not realize there is a mistake. Countless recordings of live performances capture one or more band members laughing and people just read into it not comprehending the circumstances.
 

It wasn’t a sour note. He did a recurring riff at the wrong part of the song. However Waters certainly had to notice. They could have edited it out during post production. Waters has a high bar transforming his visions. They had the ability to cleanly edit it out given how they edited Jon Carin’s vocals and the camera footage of Dogs to match how they were presented on the original studio track. Maybe after all the years working with David Gilmour Waters developed guitarist immunity. 
 

 

[ProfD]

One thing many folks either don't know or probably forgot...soul brother #1 James Brown was a former boxer.😁

 

I'd imagine being nice with his hands made it easier for James Brown to levy those fines.

 

Most musicians do not want to get their azz whupped by a short dude wearing a perm hairdo. 🤣😎 

[The Real MC]

39 minutes ago, ProfD said:

One thing many folks either don't know or probably forgot...soul brother #1 James Brown was a former boxer.😁

 

I'd imagine being nice with his hands made it easier for James Brown to levy those fines.

 

Most musicians do not want to get their azz whupped by a short dude wearing a perm hairdo. 🤣😎 

 

Ronnie Van Zant's father was a prize boxer and he taught Ronnie how to box.  At three years old, Ronnie was good enough that he gave his daddy a black eye.  As Ronnie grew up in his tough neighborhood he developed street smarts and was the meanest kid around town.  The Lynyrd Skynyrd band often got into fights and Ronnie seldom lost.  With his street smarts and tough disposition, Ronnie ran that band with an iron hand.  Ronnie's reputation followed him on tours and he got tired of being challenged by the local drunk rednecks - a year before the plane crash he started cleaning up his act, and was well on his way to superstardom.

[MotiDave]

On 4/5/2022 at 8:06 AM, allan_evett said:

Most memorable stink-eye moment:

Lead singer motions to me, a thumbs-up move. Leans over and whispers rather harshly: "You need to turn up! I can't hear you in my monitor." I told him to ask the soundperson, as my turning up would affect the entire mix. He became more irritated, and insisted that I turn up. 

 

I played a show in a new band (UFO cover - our second show) and drummer is brand new to live performance.  He told me to turn down around song #6 because his monitor mix changed.  I hadn’t changed my output.  I mouthed back to him “Fxxx Off” and laughed.  I explained just what you said after the set.

other problem with this newbie - when he makes a mistake he still panics and freezes up.  He did it on 2 songs first show, 1 song second show.  Derails the band.  Pro drummers simply cannot derail the band - thats their #1 job is to hold us together.  But He’s put his heart and soul into this project, and really studied hard to learn the very detailed drum chops.  its his lifetime #1 bucket list item.  He’s working on this project almost every day, hours a day.  Me - i learned the set and just rub thru it once before we rehearse or play.  So I’m going to work thru it with him and coach him with positive reinforcement because, well, shit - its just a fucking cover band for me and its his dream.  I’m not going to break his heart on it.  Its just a side hobby I took on as I love the vintage keys work in their classic Strangers In The Night live album.  but its so weird to play with a rookie again after all these years.  Lol … 

[KuruPrionz]

On 4/8/2022 at 6:45 AM, Stokely said:

It's hilarious how players of stringed instruments *that have to be tuned* like to blame keyboard players for being out of tune.  Especially hilarious when it's a digital keyboard.

Something kept going out of tune during one practice, this band had two guitar players and I knew it was one of them.  I was trying to be nice and between songs i just said "can we check tuning?"   Immediately they both got defensive and said "why don't you check your tuning?!"  Ok, I did, and shockingly, my Motif was exactly in tune.   They checked their tuning then and very oddly they both were in tune.  We played the next song and everything was fine.  We played the next one after that and lo the bad tuning was back.   Long story short, one of the guitarists was strictly rhythm and his approach to playing rhythm on most songs was to capo up on his SG so that he could play big ol strummed "cowboy chords" on any song.  Sure enough the capo--or rather his misuse of it--was causing the issue.

Capo is a clamp, any time you clamp strings behind tall frets you are going to have a tuning discrepancy. If you put a capo on a Gibson electric (and/or MANY other guitars), the pressure will make at least some of the strings go sharp and you have to re-tune. That takes time you don't have if you are on stage. 

 

I religiously avoid using a capo live, of course now that I've scalloped my fretboard it would be impossible to capo up and not go hideously sharp. 

 

You could bring more than one guitar, capo them as needed and tune them before the set but then you have to go through the whole switching guitars routine. 

Just learn to play your instrument in all keys, learn your fingerings and inversions and you will only have one guitar to deal with, maybe two (I use locking tuners and can change the rare occasional broken string very quickly).

 

If I'm playing solo on an acoustic guitar I might do a song or two with a capo and it's usually OK. Otherwise they are for recording only. 

[o0Ampy0o]

9 hours ago, The Real MC said:

 

Ronnie Van Zant's father was a prize boxer and he taught Ronnie how to box.  At three years old, Ronnie was good enough that he gave his daddy a black eye.  As Ronnie grew up in his tough neighborhood he developed street smarts and was the meanest kid around town.  The Lynyrd Skynyrd band often got into fights and Ronnie seldom lost.  With his street smarts and tough disposition, Ronnie ran that band with an iron hand.  Ronnie's reputation followed him on tours and he got tired of being challenged by the local drunk rednecks - a year before the plane crash he started cleaning up his act, and was well on his way to superstardom.

They were already superstars in the area I grew up in. It is miraculous how anyone made it through that crash, recovered and went on to continue as touring pro musicians. Before the threat of lawsuits from the estates of those killed survivors were more truthful and not carefully tiptoeing around certain details. Early testimonies describe how when they knew they were going to crash Ronnie had passed out and was lying on the floor of the plane. He was not buckled in a seat. They could not wake him up. He might not have made it but he had no chance as loose cargo. 

[The Real MC]

2 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

Early testimonies describe how when they knew they were going to crash Ronnie had passed out and was lying on the floor of the plane. He was not buckled in a seat. They could not wake him up. He might not have made it but he had no chance as loose cargo. 

 

Ronnie had second sight.  For years he told family and friends that he would not live to see thirty.  Even his daddy was incredulous.

 

We can only imagine the state of Ronnie's mind as he realized his number was up as the plane was falling.

[o0Ampy0o]

5 hours ago, The Real MC said:

We can only imagine the state of Ronnie's mind as he realized his number was up as the plane was falling.

Especially if he wasn’t conscious when the plane was falling. There has been a lot of revisioning of history around that band. Ronnie’s wife attempted to prevent any form of Skynyrd Band from continuing on. The survivors agreed to never use the band name again. But the band reformed and is still around using the name Lynyrd Skynyrd with only one original member at this point in time. The families are most likely receiving ongoing compensation. Ronnie was supposedly a nice guy but a mean drunk and brutal bandleader. On a previous tour after a show he knocked out Billy Powell’s front teeth. Powell said he had forgiven Ronnie for his teeth by the time of the crash. Powell was the only passenger who wasn’t rendered unconscious in the crash. As he laid in the swamp after being thrown from the plane, without seeing or being told so he felt Ronnie was dead and of all things he was  “…relieved that the beatings were over.” That does not sound like Ronnie was no longer drinking. 

[TommyRude]

when your bandmate makes a mistake

[analogika]

What not to do when YOU mess up:

 

Years ago, played a festival in the town square of my home city (1000+ people). First number, singer starts off playing acoustic guitar and singing. I come in halfway through the first verse with the B3. Off by a half-note. 
 

He immediately breaks off, makes a quip about the problem of playing with other musicians (which was wonderfully ambiguous wording), deftly removes his capo, and starts over. 

 

I realise I’m still pissed off over that, almost twenty years later.

[Bobbo Fett]

I........used to..... do a gig with a female jazz (sort of) vocalist around here who had the wonderful habit of turning around and calling out someone in the band (usually me) anytime she screwed up. Over the mic. Good times for sure.....I really took it personally until I saw her at a gig pull the same crap with the new piano player. That at least made me realize that it wasn't personal, just her M.O., but I still never wanted to play with her again.....I guess it was the same logic that a friend of mine's wife who owned a restaurant employed. In her case, if there was any complaints about anything she would lay it back on the servers. Her logic was that if the customer had a problem with a particular server, they would still come back and request a different one, but if they had a problem with the kitchen they wouldn't be back.....

[Docbop]

One of my favorites I witnessed was a bunch of friends had a top 40 band.    The singer was okay but knew a lot of people that drew people in so clubs always like that.   Trouble was the singer screwed up all the time and the band covered him, but the singer would bitch to all his friends what a but of $@$%@$%'s the band was.    Well one night the band had grown tired of the singer's BS,  the singer calls the next song.   The band starts the song the singer called, but the singer comes in singing the wrong song.   The band looked at each other and  decided to just keep playing the song that was called.    The singer finished never realizing he sang the wrong song until one of his friends pointed it out.   So the singer called a break and went out to all his friends to tell them what a screwed up band he had.   That was basically the last gig for the singer.  The band decided they could share the vocals between them and kept on gig'ing and playing all the same clubs, no one missed that singer.