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Running a guitar into a Boss GT 6 effects processor and then direct to PA using Roland Direct Drive


LumpyCotton
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We had a rehearsal today and decided beforehand to run direct into the PA without using a microphoned amp.

 

I ran the guitar into the Boss GT 6 and out to the Roland direct drive to the PA.

 

However, the guitar sounded wrong.  There was no middle and on my Country Crunch setting it was highly distorted with too much high.

 

Anyone out there ever have success in getting the correct sound?

 

There is an EQ button on the Boss GT 6 but I have never used it before.

 

I've done this before and it sounded ok.

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Last night I played a gig at a club with a nice PA system. 

It was a last minute thing for me so I took a Tech 21 Double Drive 3x (three different programable sounds plus bypass) and a Tech 21 active DI with no knobs or adjustments. I programmed the Double Drive in a few minutes on my studio monitors and went to the show. We added some reverb from the PA and the room had a glorious "bigness" to it as well. The crowd clapped for my solos, I thought it sounded pretty good. I used clean, cleanish and moderate overdriven tones. 

 

The Double Drive provides control over gain and both even order and/or odd order harmonics so there are quite a few tones on tap if you explore. 

 

Sounds like you need to sit down with your goodie and tweak a bit. Does it have a headphone jack?

If it sounds smooth and full on headphones it should sound pretty darn good through the PA. 

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It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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10 hours ago, LumpyCotton said:

We had a rehearsal today and decided beforehand to run direct into the PA without using a microphoned amp.

 

I ran the guitar into the Boss GT 6 and out to the Roland direct drive to the PA.

 

However, the guitar sounded wrong.  There was no middle and on my Country Crunch setting it was highly distorted with too much high.

 

Anyone out there ever have success in getting the correct sound?

 

There is an EQ button on the Boss GT 6 but I have never used it before.

 

I've done this before and it sounded ok.

 

I've been using various Boss GT-series MFX* live for years, with no issues, although I don't have a GT-6. I had a GT-6B for a while, but wasn't really pleased with it, overall. Generally, I use the Main Outs direct to the FOH system, whatever that may be.

 

Two questions from reading your post: First, were you using an Active Direct Box (". . . out to the Roland direct drive to the PA.") between the GT-6 and the PA?   Second, had you used your GT-6 before with this PA, and is it possible that someone else had changed the settings on the PA since the last time you used it?

 

If you've used your GT-6 before, with no problems, it's possible that the issue was with the EQ or other settings on the PA. No, I'm not in the "blame the sound engineer" camp, but if you're certain that your part of the system was set up and working properly, that eliminates one set of possibilities. You shouldn't need a Direct Box between the GT-6 and your PA, or any FRFR system.

 

My general approach to EQ and Compression, particularly with the Boss MFX, is "Less Is More". However, if you're relying on the settings within the Factory Presets, like Country Crunch, that could be part of your problem. One thing I'd check is the Country Crunch Preset itself: if the Compressor is ON, turn it OFF to start with. IME, the Compressor adds a good bit of noise to the Boss Factory Presets, and clamping down with the Noise Suppressor at the other end of the signal chain to compensate is like playing slice-&-dice with your signal. I'd also look to see what other tone-shaping effects are at work in that Preset: is the Crunch Pre-Amp within the patch set to High Gain, or is the Bright switch On, for example?

 

FWIW, I don't use any of the Factory Presets on any of my MFX, I program my own sounds, so I know they'll work with my Guitars and Synths.

 

*GT-3, GT-10, GT-1, & ME-25. I had a GT-6B, which I'd gotten mainly for my Synths, and found it disappointing, no matter what I used it with, Guitar, Bass or Synth, or how I programmed it. The GT-6 somehow struck me as a Pedalboard revision/expansion of the rack-mount Roland GP-100; it even had a similar brushed-metal look for the faceplate.

 

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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13 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Sounds like you need to sit down with your goodie and tweak a bit. Does it have a headphone jack?

If it sounds smooth and full on headphones it should sound pretty darn good through the PA. 

 

In general, yes, if everything sound good through the headphones, it should sound good through the Main Outs; at the very least, you can be fairly sure the noise and distortion aren't coming from your Guitar, or the Patch itself.

 

However, one possible difference, at least with some of the Boss MFX; if you use the Headphone Jack, the Speaker Emulator or some other element of the Amp Modeling defaults to always On, to produce a more "naturalistic" sound. In short, it's not exactly the sound being routed to the Main Outs. What level of processing is being applied, and how, will vary somewhat, depending on which of the GT-series MFX you have.

 

Later Edit/Addition: On some models, the same applies whenever you Select Line/Phones as your Output, even if you're using the Main Outs, and  not the Phones Jack.

 

 

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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If you've built your GT6 patches with the unit plugged in to your guitar amp, those patches will all be brighter & thinner when heard through a PA system. Distortion will sound more prominent because a PA passes a lot of higher harmonics which are rolled off by the limited frequency response of typical guitar amp speakers. 

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Scott Fraser
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3 hours ago, Scott Fraser said:

If you've built your GT6 patches with the unit plugged in to your guitar amp, those patches will all be brighter & thinner when heard through a PA system. Distortion will sound more prominent because a PA passes a lot of higher harmonics which are rolled off by the limited frequency response of typical guitar amp speakers. 

All 100% true. That's why I dialed my tones in on studio monitors, they are closer in response to PA speakers than guitar speakers, usually have no real woofer and almost never a tweeter. I think I could get pretty close on my Fishman Loudbox Performer, that has a 3 way speaker system. 

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20 hours ago, LumpyCotton said:

I ran the guitar into the Boss GT 6 and out to the Roland direct drive to the PA.

 

However, the guitar sounded wrong.  There was no middle and on my Country Crunch setting it was highly distorted with too much high.

 

  

8 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

...the Speaker Emulator...


Given the description of the problem, my first thought is to make sure the speaker/cab sim or such filter for DI/Line Out is on...
                
        
 

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Thanks everyone for your comments.  I'm gonna try to run it clean in the Roland Direct from the Boss GT 6.

I reset to the factory settings and I'm just hoping it works better tomorrow night.

We have a happy hour gig (yeah, I know. Monday) at a local club.

I try to make things as simple as possible for a gig set up. 

I used to mic my amp and that was that.  

Now we have to downsize based on space available.

Plus I'm 68 and don't want to haul a ton of stuff !!

That Fender 212 is heavy !

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5 hours ago, Scott Fraser said:

If you've built your GT6 patches with the unit plugged in to your guitar amp, those patches will all be brighter & thinner when heard through a PA system. Distortion will sound more prominent because a PA passes a lot of higher harmonics which are rolled off by the limited frequency response of typical guitar amp speakers. 

Exactly !

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I'm in the same camp as Winston's comments on checking the Country Crunch patch settings.  If your other patches sound good, then you can narrow it down to that patch.  I don't have a Boss MFX pedal anymore, but a common problem with "Crunch" settings is too much high gain caused by Overdrive settings, and as Scott said distortion settings, Compression settings, EQ settings, parameters, adjustments if available, etc...good luck and good hunting Lumpy Cotton! 😎

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Take care, Larryz
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59 minutes ago, Larryz said:

I don't have a Boss MFX pedal anymore, but a common problem with "Crunch" settings is too much high gain caused by Overdrive settings, and as Scott said distortion settings, Compression settings, EQ settings, parameters, adjustments if available, etc...good luck and good hunting Lumpy Cotton! 😎

 

On the Boss MFX in particular, the Compressor settings in the Factory Presets tend to add noise, even with HB's. The High Gain Amp Models are also problematic, especially if you want to use an OD/Distortion effect with them. For my own patches, I tend to rely on the Clean Twin or Tweed Amp Models, and add Distortion with the OD/Distortion effects.

 

Regarding Scott's very valid point regarding the difference between playing through an Amp and a PA system, one thing you can do is to set up multiple FX Banks, with slightly different copies of your most-used Presets, EQ'ed and contoured for Guitar Amp or PA. If you use several different Guitars, with different PU's, you might want to do the same thing for each Guitar, so you have Tele/Strat Patches, and LP/SG Patches, or A/E and Jazzbox, you get the idea. There isn't really a One-Size-Fits-All approach with MFX, they sound best when you tweak them to complement your rig.

 

One persistent rumor regarding Factory Patches & Presets overall, not just Boss MFX, is that they were designed to cut through the noise of a weekend afternoon at your local Guitar Warehouse, thus the Gain and EQ settings are more extreme than most of us would use IRL. I don't know if that's entirely true, but my approach to Factory Presets is to delete them altogether.

 

When I get a new MFX, I'll listen to the Presets, in case there's anything worth experimenting with, then I create a BLANK Preset, and overwrite all of the User Presets with it. In most cases, the Factory Presets still reside in their own set of Preset Banks, so they're always accessible, if you wanted to restore any of them, and, in extremis, you can always do a complete Factory Reset.

 

 

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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6 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

 

On the Boss MFX in particular, the Compressor settings in the Factory Presets tend to add noise, even with HB's. The High Gain Amp Models are also problematic, especially if you want to use an OD/Distortion effect with them. For my own patches, I tend to rely on the Clean Twin or Tweed Amp Models, and add Distortion with the OD/Distortion effects.

 

Regarding Scott's very valid point regarding the difference between playing through an Amp and a PA system, one thing you can do is to set up multiple FX Banks, with slightly different copies of your most-used Presets, EQ'ed and contoured for Guitar Amp or PA. If you use several different Guitars, with different PU's, you might want to do the same thing for each Guitar, so you have Tele/Strat Patches, and LP/SG Patches, or A/E and Jazzbox, you get the idea. There isn't really a One-Size-Fits-All approach with MFX, they sound best when you tweak them to complement your rig.

 

One persistent rumor regarding Factory Patches & Presets overall, not just Boss MFX, is that they were designed to cut through the noise of a weekend afternoon at your local Guitar Warehouse, thus the Gain and EQ settings are more extreme than most of us would use IRL. I don't know if that's entirely true, but my approach to Factory Presets is to delete them altogether.

 

When I get a new MFX, I'll listen to the Presets, in case there's anything worth experimenting with, then I create a BLANK Preset, and overwrite all of the User Presets with it. In most cases, the Factory Presets still reside in their own set of Preset Banks, so they're always accessible, if you wanted to restore any of them, and, in extremis, you can always do a complete Factory Reset.

 

 

I've been loving my Peavey Vypyr VIP 1 but the presets are hideous garbage tones. 

It took a little time to realize that "Post Gain" meant "Simulated Tube Amp Output Section Gain". Once I figured that out, dialing in great tones was easy.

That has a single 10" stuffed in it so it's small, fairly light and plenty loud enough. 

That said, I am looking at more pedal only solutions so I do need to get the sounds right through a full range speaker instead of a guitar amp speaker.

It was a pleasant surprise the other day when I decided to track some guitar parts with a Digitech Element XP, which is discontinued and overlooked but actually a pretty nice little box. Again, horrible presets mostly. There were a couple of gems that I recorded direct and they sounded good on playback. 

That's a tiny box with 100 presets but only 2 foot switches so you can go up or down from where you are. Hitting them both at once is a bypass.

It does have a volume or wah pedal included, that's nice.

 

Boss is good stuff but you have to let it know who the "Boss" really is...

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21 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

 

On the Boss MFX in particular, the Compressor settings in the Factory Presets tend to add noise, even with HB's. The High Gain Amp Models are also problematic, especially if you want to use an OD/Distortion effect with them. For my own patches, I tend to rely on the Clean Twin or Tweed Amp Models, and add Distortion with the OD/Distortion effects.

 

Regarding Scott's very valid point regarding the difference between playing through an Amp and a PA system, one thing you can do is to set up multiple FX Banks, with slightly different copies of your most-used Presets, EQ'ed and contoured for Guitar Amp or PA. If you use several different Guitars, with different PU's, you might want to do the same thing for each Guitar, so you have Tele/Strat Patches, and LP/SG Patches, or A/E and Jazzbox, you get the idea. There isn't really a One-Size-Fits-All approach with MFX, they sound best when you tweak them to complement your rig.

 

One persistent rumor regarding Factory Patches & Presets overall, not just Boss MFX, is that they were designed to cut through the noise of a weekend afternoon at your local Guitar Warehouse, thus the Gain and EQ settings are more extreme than most of us would use IRL. I don't know if that's entirely true, but my approach to Factory Presets is to delete them altogether.

 

When I get a new MFX, I'll listen to the Presets, in case there's anything worth experimenting with, then I create a BLANK Preset, and overwrite all of the User Presets with it. In most cases, the Factory Presets still reside in their own set of Preset Banks, so they're always accessible, if you wanted to restore any of them, and, in extremis, you can always do a complete Factory Reset.

 

 

 

Great info Winston!  I too like the Clean Twin or Tweed Fender amp models so much that I always picked the 65 Fender Deluxe on my Fender Floor MFX.  I like putting whatever effects through those types of clean amps up front before sending anything to the PA.  Then Fender came out with the full sized modeling 65 Fender Deluxe Tonemaster (which I now own) and saved me the trouble of using the Fender Floor MFX.  It has an XLR out with power control for going direct to the PA without needing a DI.  What you hear on stage coming out of the amp, is what the audience should hear coming out of the PA speakers as close as possible and what I like to hear coming out of the monitors.  That's the reason players craft their sound with amps, pickups, guitars, etc.  I have a Fender bass amp with an xlr out with power control that can also go direct to the PA although I like keeping the bass out of the PA.  

 

I have had to use the "in extremis" re-set once when things got a little out of hand with a Boss MFX LoL!  My biggest issue with multi-effects pedals using patches, is going from one patch to another, are volume bursts with the gain patches.  I solved that problem by setting all patch levels where I wanted them.  Then I just quit using factory patches and used the locations for my custom setting.  My Fender Floor also allowed me to skip all factory patches and use the 5 programmable effects as stomp boxes.  Dist, Comp, Mod, Delay, etc.  I also had a ground lift and a noise gate which I really liked when going direct to the PA.  It was basically the brain of the Fender Mustang amp without the speakers.  It had amp, speaker, sims, etc. as well.  With two xlr outs and/or 1/4" outs to the PA

 

Now, I just need a little verb from my amp (sans pedals) on my Tonemaster which models my favorite tube amp perfectly, along with an extra mic cord to go to the PA and use my amp as my monitor.  It only weighs 20lbs and is easy in and out (as opposed to the OP's 68lb amp speakers, etc.).  Plus, when not going to the PA, it makes a great amp for small venues.  I watched a PBS taping from the second row by Tommy Emmanuel, Bucky, Vignola, etc., and they all used small amps on stage as their monitors going to the PA.  Couldn't ask for a better sound system...

 

You and Scott are the best resources we have for PA and Effects IMHO and I'll let you guys give the OP advice.  My thought was if the OP is only having trouble with one factory patch, perhaps he could edit it.  I have CRS (Can't remember Sh*t) so don't take any of this post literally as I'm now doomed to just playing for my own enjoyment in my little music room LoL! 😎👍

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Take care, Larryz
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As I mentioned previously, I did a factory reset on the processor.

We played last night and it worked well for me.

 

A little background, I got the Boss GT 6 years ago because another very good local guitar player used it.

He passed away before I could ask him how to use it.  

 

I am retired now where before I had a very busy work schedule that didn't allow me to experiment with guitar stuff.

Now that I have more time to do that...I wish to thank anyone who contributed to this thread.

 

Even if I didn't fully comprehend what you were talking about...it got me thinking in the right direction.

🙂

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15 minutes ago, LumpyCotton said:

As I mentioned previously, I did a factory reset on the processor.

We played last night and it worked well for me.

 

A little background, I got the Boss GT 6 years ago because another very good local guitar player used it.

He passed away before I could ask him how to use it.  

 

I am retired now where before I had a very busy work schedule that didn't allow me to experiment with guitar stuff.

Now that I have more time to do that...I wish to thank anyone who contributed to this thread.

 

Even if I didn't fully comprehend what you were talking about...it got me thinking in the right direction.

🙂

I notice you have 5 posts, welcome aboard!!!!

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It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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@LumpyCotton - Just in case, here's a link to the Manual for the GT-6: GT-6 Owner's Manual

 

Boss/Roland Manuals have improved greatly since the all-but-incomprehensible Synth Manuals of the mid-1980's, but they're still pretty dense, and they still like to use their own terminology for some features. (The Wave Pedal is one . . . ask me later.) Still, the Manual is really worth having, especially for understanding the deeper aspects of the box. There is a LOT of control potential available, if you want to tap into it.

 

There are a number of ways to set up your patches so your sound is always as consistent as the space or circumstances will allow. FWIW, if you using mostly straightforward effects chains, nothing too crazy, the programming is also pretty straightforward. If you want to get more adventurous, there's room to explore.

 

Feel free to PM me, if you have any questions, I'll help as best I can.

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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4 hours ago, Winston Psmith said:

@LumpyCotton - Just in case, here's a link to the Manual for the GT-6: GT-6 Owner's Manual

 

Boss/Roland Manuals have improved greatly since the all-but-incomprehensible Synth Manuals of the mid-1980's, but they're still pretty dense, and they still like to use their own terminology for some features. (The Wave Pedal is one . . . ask me later.) Still, the Manual is really worth having, especially for understanding the deeper aspects of the box. There is a LOT of control potential available, if you want to tap into it.

 

There are a number of ways to set up your patches so your sound is always as consistent as the space or circumstances will allow. FWIW, if you using mostly straightforward effects chains, nothing too crazy, the programming is also pretty straightforward. If you want to get more adventurous, there's room to explore.

 

Feel free to PM me, if you have any questions, I'll help as best I can.

Thank you Winston !

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 I want to thank Larryz for the high praise and vote of confidence.

 

Let me say here, I've had the great pleasure of hearing Scott Fraser's work at the soundboard, in two very different venues, for two VERY different sets of performers, and I bow to his skill and knowledge. Scott is a true professional, with many years of experience at his craft, while I am merely a skilled amateur.

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"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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1 hour ago, Winston Psmith said:

 Let me say here, I've had the great pleasure of hearing Scott Fraser's work at the soundboard, in two very different venues, for two VERY different sets of performers, and I bow to his skill and knowledge. Scott is a true professional, with many years of experience at his craft, while I am merely a skilled amateur.

<blushing> Thank you, deeply, for the high praise. I'm VERY fortunate to be able to work with artists who make me look good. I always say my job is to stay out of the artists' way, (i.e. the mix is not about me, it's about the people on the stage,) and after 45 years or so I'm getting much better at staying out of their way. 

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