Using SSv3 for piano? Tried adding a sub?

[DaveMcM]

I remember when those Fender amps arrived at the retail store where I was working at the time. Don't remember them getting much traction

 

True. They were very expensive and an entirely new technology that no one really understood and/or new how to demonstrate. They were only manufactured for a couple of years. I was glad when Aspen got back in the game with the original SSv1.

[drawback]

They had one on stage at The Yale in Vancouver, but whenever I played there I went through FOH for pianos, Leslie for Hammond. Looked interesting, though, but that was before the SSV3 existed so I never tried it.

[zxcvbnm098]

I have the SSv3 and Behringer B1200D and really like the combination. I agree with those that don't particularly care for acoustic piano through the SSv3 although I have done many gigs using the set-up. Last year when I was at Sweetwater I picked up a Motion Sound KP610S figuring it would improve the acoustic piano sound but still work great for stereo rotary speaker emulation. Acoustic piano is more pleasing (using the B1200D sub) but there is pretty much zero stereo imaging. The SpaceStation is way better imo. I also have a Fender 200 SFX keyboard amp from 1998 which is the SpaceStation on steroids (see pic in attachment). Aspen licensed the SFX technology to Fender years ago. It sounds great on acoustic piano, organ/rotary, and anything else you though at it. With that knowledge, I just ordered/received a SpaceStation XL. I think that will be the winner. Anybody want to by a KP610S

 

Interestingly Fender has come out with a new (last year I think) acoustic guitar amp that has the SFX elements that conceivably could sound OK with keyboards? I'd like try it out and see....looking to see if they have one near me at a GC?

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AcouSFXII--fender-acoustic-sfx-ii-2x100-watt-acoustic-amp?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gdsa&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=guitars&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=39700065529673227&lid=39700065529673227&ds_s_kwgid=58700007302028581&device=c&network=g&matchtype=b&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9031613&creative=538076596746&targetid=dsa-1460500211957&campaignid=6730319005&awsearchcpc=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwy7CKBhBMEiwA0Eb7atHypBwku4-lkOYlmtAICs80R2zgtkfV6cJQ9V9hSQE8NGQjvjX2dBoCaMkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[16251]

I have the SSv3 and Behringer B1200D and really like the combination. I agree with those that don't particularly care for acoustic piano through the SSv3 although I have done many gigs using the set-up. Last year when I was at Sweetwater I picked up a Motion Sound KP610S figuring it would improve the acoustic piano sound but still work great for stereo rotary speaker emulation. Acoustic piano is more pleasing (using the B1200D sub) but there is pretty much zero stereo imaging. The SpaceStation is way better imo. I also have a Fender 200 SFX keyboard amp from 1998 which is the SpaceStation on steroids (see pic in attachment). Aspen licensed the SFX technology to Fender years ago. It sounds great on acoustic piano, organ/rotary, and anything else you though at it. With that knowledge, I just ordered/received a SpaceStation XL. I think that will be the winner. Anybody want to by a KP610S

 

Interestingly Fender has come out with a new (last year I think) acoustic guitar amp that has the SFX elements that conceivably could sound OK with keyboards? I'd like try it out and see....looking to see if they have one near me at a GC?

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AcouSFXII--fender-acoustic-sfx-ii-2x100-watt-acoustic-amp?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gdsa&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=guitars&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=39700065529673227&lid=39700065529673227&ds_s_kwgid=58700007302028581&device=c&network=g&matchtype=b&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9031613&creative=538076596746&targetid=dsa-1460500211957&campaignid=6730319005&awsearchcpc=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwy7CKBhBMEiwA0Eb7atHypBwku4-lkOYlmtAICs80R2zgtkfV6cJQ9V9hSQE8NGQjvjX2dBoCaMkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[ElmerJFudd]

I have the SSv3 and Behringer B1200D and really like the combination. I agree with those that don't particularly care for acoustic piano through the SSv3 although I have done many gigs using the set-up. Last year when I was at Sweetwater I picked up a Motion Sound KP610S figuring it would improve the acoustic piano sound but still work great for stereo rotary speaker emulation. Acoustic piano is more pleasing (using the B1200D sub) but there is pretty much zero stereo imaging. The SpaceStation is way better imo. I also have a Fender 200 SFX keyboard amp from 1998 which is the SpaceStation on steroids (see pic in attachment). Aspen licensed the SFX technology to Fender years ago. It sounds great on acoustic piano, organ/rotary, and anything else you though at it. With that knowledge, I just ordered/received a SpaceStation XL. I think that will be the winner. Anybody want to by a KP610S

 

The XL is a 65 pounder, which says, 'please put casters on me'.

 

But, like most stuff. I"d love to hear what it sounds like.

[DaveMcM]

 

The XL is a 65 pounder, which says, 'please put casters on me'.

 

But, like most stuff. I"d love to hear what it sounds like.

 

Actually it says ' please use your Kart-a-Bag TriCart 800'. ð

 

The Fender 200SFX is 85lbs so this"ll be a walk in the park.

[hardware]

I remember some folks complained about Piano sounds and when I got the SSv3 noticed the stereo image was thinned down.

 

I used PianoTeq"s mic placement and fixed that. But oddly enough it was the only sound that needed a fix.

 

The only reason I added a sub was because of my SE-1X or SE-02 just crushed the 8' Emminence speaker.

The B1200D basically relieves the 8' in the SSv3 if you"re doing lots of low end work.

My favorite sound of the SSv3 were Hard panned EPianos. Second fav was hardware analog leads.

The sizzle of the high end driver was well suited for analog bacon fried filters.

[MotiDave]

I feel bad for you guys. You buy a speaker, realize it doesn't sound good on one of the main instrument sounds you use on a gig, then get a second, different speaker to somehow fix, or make up for its deficiencies? Something does not compute. Not trying to be a kvetch, just wanting to understand.

 

Man, if this isnt the greatest flashback to the greatest thread in keyboard forum history. The adherents were unwavering in their love for this contraption, at last the holy grail one-box solution to their quest for stereo imaging. I remember Aspen was there early and often for the first 50 or so pages before mods eventually said 'we all love you, but we have a policy about manufacturers promoting their gear and ⦠uh .. thats what you"re doing'. No disrespect, he was a really great guy by all accounts.

 

The endless page after page ⦠sharing critical tips of how to point, baffle, shield, raise, lower, tilt, distance from it and of course endless pages on what other boxes to add to it ⦠to fix the sound from their holy grail of a one-box solution.

 

For the record I tried SSv3 with the mentioned Berringer, after reading the disciples reports. i did not like it - not one little bit. I sent it back within a week and bought a real PPA. Haven"t thought once to go back. But many love it and most of them are a lot smarter than me so â¦

[DaveMcM]

I feel bad for you guys. You buy a speaker, realize it doesn't sound good on one of the main instrument sounds you use on a gig, then get a second, different speaker to somehow fix, or make up for its deficiencies? Something does not compute. Not trying to be a kvetch, just wanting to understand.

 

Man, if this isnt the greatest flashback to the greatest thread in keyboard forum history. The adherents were unwavering in their love for this contraption, at last the holy grail one-box solution to their quest for stereo imaging. I remember Aspen was there early and often for the first 50 or so pages before mods eventually said 'we all love you, but we have a policy about manufacturers promoting their gear and ⦠uh .. thats what you"re doing'. No disrespect, he was a really great guy by all accounts.

 

The endless page after page ⦠sharing critical tips of how to point, baffle, shield, raise, lower, tilt, distance from it and of course endless pages on what other boxes to add to it ⦠to fix the sound from their holy grail of a one-box solution.

 

For the record I tried SSv3 with the mentioned Berringer, after reading the disciples reports. i did not like it - not one little bit. I sent it back within a week and bought a real PPA. Haven"t thought once to go back. But many love it and most of them are a lot smarter than me so â¦

 

I get what you both are saying. Everyone hears things differently and has their own opinion on what sounds good. Some are more concerned on what they hear on stage while others care more about what the audience hears. Then there are those, including myself, that care about both. I've had many amplification setups over the years. Currently I have a Motion Sound KP610s, an Electro-Voice ZLX-12P, a pair of QSC K10's, Fender 200 SFX, SSv3, Behringer B1200D and the SS XL (which will take it's first flight tomorrow afternoon). Out of that list, my guess is you might choose the QSC's as the amplification of choice. For me, besides hauling two cabinets, two spk. stands, a mixer, the cables to connect it all and looking like I'm wearing a giant set of headphones, I really didn't enjoy the sound. I let someone sit in and I felt the same way out front. On another gig where I just had the SSv3 (no sub) I again let someone sit in and was impressed with how well my keys sounded, even the acoustic piano. Not trying to sway anyone's opinion here, to each his own.

 

But like I said, I get were you are coming from. It's kind of like some folks, me included, that don't have the desire to ride the big red keyboard train. I am very happy with my blue keyboard and have had fellow keyboardists (several of which have a red keyboard) and other musicians come up on breaks and compliment me on my sound and can't believe it is coming from a blue keyboard.

[MPN21]

... I just ordered/received a SpaceStation XL. I think that will be the winner. Anybody want to by a KP610S

Let us know how you like the XL and how it comepares with other amps you amps. Thanks.

[DaveMcM]

... I just ordered/received a SpaceStation XL. I think that will be the winner. Anybody want to by a KP610S

Let us know how you like the XL and how it comepares with other amps you amps. Thanks.

 

Will do.

[cphollis]

I looked long and hard at the XL a while back, and decided "nahhh", despite how much I like the SSv3 for what it does. The reports were good: twin side speakers made positioning less critical, you were working with a deeper and flatter response curve vs. using plastic surgery to fix things, plenty of ballz, and so on.

 

I just couldn't get my head wrapped around bringing a massive column speaker to a gig, even with casters and handles. I've done that before, and I don't want to do it again.

[DaveMcM]

I looked long and hard at the XL a while back, and decided "nahhh", despite how much I like the SSv3 for what it does. The reports were good: twin side speakers made positioning less critical, you were working with a deeper and flatter response curve vs. using plastic surgery to fix things, plenty of ballz, and so on.

 

I just couldn't get my head wrapped around bringing a massive column speaker to a gig, even with casters and handles. I've done that before, and I don't want to do it again.

 

Yeah, it's not exactly a pocket amp. But I normally stack the SSv3 or KP610s on top of the B1200D and roll them in on my hand cart so this will actually be easier.

[roygBiv]

Three quick comments about the SS3:

 

1. I use it exclusively for gigs (note - I'm a nobody, but to quote Monty Python, "I have an opinion, that is mine!").

Why? - minimal schlep factor, sub out to PA makes life easy for soundman, and the stereo effect sounds great, especially for organ.

 

2. Something that I think is not discussed enough when people talk about SS3 volume issues -

to get enough clean volume on stage, you need to feed it a pretty hot signal from some type of mixer/preamp - straight out of my Roland VR09 and especially RD-64 simply does not cut it.

Obviously placement matters too - I usually put it on the floor and lean it back on something about 4-6 feet away, with center speaker pointing at my head. Put other things (amps, wall, empty guitar cases) next to side speakers to get maximum reflections.

Because I am a parsimonious prick, I also I sit on the Gator case in which I bring the SS3 to gigs. Exactly the right height, and one less thing to schlep.

 

3. I agree acoustic piano sounds are the least great sounding with the SS3 (although passable, and are not the major critique that comes to peoples mind with my playing skills).

I wonder if a little EQ pedal could really help dial in the "sweet spot" for when acoustic piano sounds are used?

I have been very intrigued by the new Boss EQ 200 pedal. It has stereo input, and can store a number of different patches - it might play nicely with the SS3 for optimizing acoustic piano patches, and give it a little juice from keyboards if you want to skip bringing a mini-mixer.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EQ-200--boss-eq-200-graphic-equalizer-pedal#specs

[DaveMcM]

Three quick comments about the SS3:

 

1. I use it exclusively for gigs (note - I'm a nobody, but to quote Monty Python, "I have an opinion, that is mine!").

Why? - minimal schlep factor, sub out to PA makes life easy for soundman, and the stereo effect sounds great, especially for organ.

 

2. Something that I think is not discussed enough when people talk about SS3 volume issues -

to get enough clean volume on stage, you need to feed it a pretty hot signal from some type of mixer/preamp - straight out of my Roland VR09 and especially RD-64 simply does not cut it.

Obviously placement matters too - I usually put it on the floor and lean it back on something about 4-6 feet away, with center speaker pointing at my head. Put other things (amps, wall, empty guitar cases) next to side speakers to get maximum reflections.

Because I am a parsimonious prick, I also I sit on the Gator case in which I bring the SS3 to gigs. Exactly the right height, and one less thing to schlep.

 

3. I agree acoustic piano sounds are the least great sounding with the SS3 (although passable, and are not the major critique that comes to peoples mind with my playing skills).

I wonder if a little EQ pedal could really help dial in the "sweet spot" for when acoustic piano sounds are used?

I have been very intrigued by the new Boss EQ 200 pedal. It has stereo input, and can store a number of different patches - it might play nicely with the SS3 for optimizing acoustic piano patches, and give it a little juice from keyboards if you want to skip bringing a mini-mixer.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EQ-200--boss-eq-200-graphic-equalizer-pedal#specs

 

#2 is a very good point. When using multiple keyboards and the SSv3 I've used a small mixer and sending a hotter signal to the input does make a difference. But on single keyboard gigs, my laziness takes over and I skip the mixer. And you mentioned various placement techniques which is one of the negatives that some folks have complained about. Silly complaint as far as I see it. The extra 5 seconds it takes to snap on the little deflectors I made to reflect the side speaker forward a bit is no big deal and well worth the effort.

 

#3 the EQ pedal sounds interesting. The DP that I use has a master EQ section so I use that to tune things up prior to the start of a gig.

[drawback]

Call me BBEdUdE , but DaveMcM & roygBiv â I"ve been harping on these in a few threads.

 

http://www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/282i.aspx

[ElmerJFudd]

Call me BBEdUdE , but DaveMcM & roygBiv â I"ve been harping on these in a few threads.

 

http://www.bbesound.com/products/sonic-maximizers/282i.aspx

 

Damn you. that looks interesting. How do you use it in your setup?

[drawback]

I have the one with the 1/4' outs. Just hook it up between the keyboard and the SSv3. It really opens up the range.

[DaveMcM]

... I just ordered/received a SpaceStation XL. I think that will be the winner. Anybody want to by a KP610S

Let us know how you like the XL and how it comepares with other amps you amps. Thanks.

 

 

Short answer...I like it.

Little Longer answer... No need for a sub, the XL has plenty bottom end. Having the controls up front is a nice change over the smaller SS. The recessed and angled input section is brilliant. I sat it on the floor about 5 feet behind me and it sounded fine. I think I will tilt it back a bit next time to be able to hear the high frequencies a little better. The acoustic piano from the Casio PX-560 sounded just fine with a nice full-bodied tone. As expected, the PX-560's EP's and the strings, brass, synth and organ from the Roland VR-730 were terrific. I can't wait to play the DMC-122/Gemini thru the XL, should be amazing. While this band wasn't the loudest I've played with, the volume did creep up a few times and the XL held it's own. I was glad to see that the external handles that are pictured on the CPS and Sweetwater websites have been replaced by sturdy metal handles. The unit is on the heavy side. As I mentioned earlier, I have a small hand truck to move it around but lifting into the back of my vehicle is a bit cumbersome but doable. All in all, I'm happy.