Live Performance in the Age of Covid

[Anderton]

Here's some useful information about outdoor concerts. It seems that yes, you can get infected outdoors, but it's primarily an issue for those who crowd together. Apparently one of the concerts offered plenty of room to spread out, but people massed toward the front of the stage, and they were the ones who got nailed.

 

I suspect that the outdoor concert situation is they won't be banned, but concertgoers will be on their own to be vaccinated, stay away from others, etc. Not an ideal situation by any means, but it won't shut down outdoor live performances completely, either.

 

On the other hand if it turns out Lollapalooza was a superspreader event and people die from it, attitudes might change. Ditto Sturgis.

[RABid]

In my area outdoor gigs with plenty of space is the answer. My small town is sponsoring concerts the last Friday of each month. They are using money from the hotel tax and doing it right. Built a stage in the corner of a park, put up lights and have hired a sound company that provides good sound. Most acts are coming out of Nashville with local acts opening the shows. I hope they keep it going but the new strand is rampant here and even the Walmart had to close for the weekend. They must be getting plenty of positive feedback because they have sponsored a few other concerts in other parks. I have to give it up for my little town. They have put the hotel tax to good use. With a population of only 8,00 we now have three nice parks. A fairly large state park that the city took over that has a natural amphitheater where they have had 3 gospel concerts this summer. A large walking park with an 18 hold disc golf course. And now a downtown city block has been converted to a park and that is where they built the sound stage for monthly concerts. It has permanent restrooms and an area for food trucks. We suddenly have a decent live music scene. I am a bit surprised that all the acts are either local or from Nashville which is 4 hours away. You would think that acts from Lexington and Louisville would be fighting for those spots. I don't know if the booking person only wants to deal with one booking agent and chose one from Nashville, or if bands don't consider a single Friday night to be worth the trouble.

 

Edit - We also now have a couple bars with live music. Not bad for a town of this size.

[KuruPrionz]

We played last night at a bar/restaurant location nearby. Since people are eating and drinking it would be impossible to enforce a mask restriction.

 

It wan't crowded and most of the people who came were there to shoot pool, which is at the other end of a pretty big room, a good 50-60 feet from the stage.

That does not insure anything, I took a chance. Singing through a mask does not work very well, it sounds like somebody singing through a mask.

 

We played well and it was fun.

 

We will be playing an outdoor concert this coming Thursday. There will be a couple of food vendors, I'll just eat before I go, stay on stage or backstage. I think we are on for one long set and we are the only band. So a fairly easy gig in that respect.

 

We have something in Pt. Roberts this month, to get there from Bellingham requires traveling through Canada since the ferry fares are unreasonable (and it's slow) and the gig would cost us money if we went by sea. All of us have proof of vaccination, we may need to get tested as well to cross the border and we will be told in no uncertain terms to just go to the gig, play it and go home. Canada Customs has an incredible information system on site, I went with the Motown band to a show long ago (pre-Covid by several years) and they pulled the bassist aside to question him about a malicious mischief charge he'd gotten in NY state when he was 17 years old. Bear in mind he was 52 at that point!!!!

 

He was taken into a private room and grilled about that event 35 years ago. They decided he was probably harmless and let him come play the show, which was good because we would have sucked without him, great bassist playing some of the greatest bass lines in all of pop music, he had James Jamerson down cold.

[David Emm]

One drawback for some is that there aren't any nubile, single women in the audience for those 'perks'.

 

I'm sure many would disagree, but nubiles are overrated Give me someone smart, solid, and sweet any time.

 

The great Billy Connolly once intoned: "72 virgins? That's not a reward, that's a punishment! What if they were all Duran Duran fans? No! Just give me two fire-breathin' hoors!"

[KenElevenShadows]

One drawback for some is that there aren't any nubile, single women in the audience for those 'perks'.

 

I'm sure many would disagree, but nubiles are overrated Give me someone smart, solid, and sweet any time.

 

I like smart, funny, compassionate, creative, slightly weird, and mentally stable. If they're easy on the eyes, that's all good too.

 

If we're just talking about women in an audience in general, as long as they are nice and don't throw beer bottles at us while we're performing, I suppose that's fine. Sort of a low bar, right?

[techristian]

One of my friends has started."porch concerts" on his front porch. I may be sitting in there. Fresh air and good times. He has one today and I'll be there as a spectator. 90 degrees though!! After 7 pm.He is recording all of these for a small town cable channel. Of course he has a large enough porch to pull this off, larger than many stages I have played on .

 

Dan

[RABid]

I keep hoping that our public library will restart their concert series. They have 4 concerts this months but they are all online only. They just don't have enough space to spread everyone out.

[Notes_Norton]

I haven't been offered any, but I will think twice about accepting an indoor gig. Fortunately, our mortgage and cars are paid off, so we don't have that pressure.

 

We have been playing outdoor venues where the audience is sitting at tables and not packed up in front of the stage.

 

I haven't been to a concert since COVID reared its ugly head, and I don't plan on going to any until I can feel safe if I do. I have strong self-preservation instincts.

 

Florida again is an epicenter of the plague, so I feel I need to be extra vigilant.

 

We have a couple of outdoor gigs coming up. We've played these places before, and I think the odds of being infected for the band are very low.

 

Notes

[Anderton]

One of my friends has started."porch concerts" on his front porch. I may be sitting in there. Fresh air and good times. He has one today and I'll be there as a spectator. 90 degrees though!! After 7 pm. He is recording all of these for a small town cable channel. Of course he has a large enough porch to pull this off, larger than many stages I have played on .

 

That's pretty clever, as well as inventive. Come to think of it, parking lot concerts probably wouldn't be that hard to pull off, even if it was a parking lot in a condo or something.

 

I've been thinking some more about outdoor gigs when it gets cold. Of course, if you like in Minnesota and it's cold, it's cold. But there are lots of sections in the US where it doesn't get all that cold in the winter, and others where an outdoor concert would be impossible for only a few months out of the year.

 

The projections about Delta get more and more pessimistic, although a lot of the speculation is still in the "we don't really know" stage. However, humans are pretty inventive. Maybe porch and parking lot concerts are going to become a thing.

[RABid]

I think almost every town and city has abandoned KMart's and malls. Just need power.

[Chip McDonald]

I have friends that are doing fly dates right now. It makes zero sense.

 

5-15 seconds exposure, maybe less, is all that's needed. A case in Australia was traced to having been infected just by *walking by someone* - shown by security camera in a grocery store. There are 2 studies done in the U.K. that shows soccer matches are super spreader events, not just because of people sitting in front of other people, but because of standing in line to get food, and being inside public transportation (which was shown to be a vector by Japanese studies last year).

 

Studies that show effectiveness against hospitalization and death are not the same as protection against infection and transmission. Studies show being vaccinated has significantly reduced effectiveness against *infection* against delta, and transmission reduced by maybe only 25%, or lower. So even if you're vaccinated and you don't care if you are infected - people that don't wear masks are still VERY contagious, masks reduces that obviously.

 

With delta having exposure times in seconds, there is no way you're safe being near any stranger in public. It's a fact.

 

Which leaves people who have the attitude of "I'm vaccinated, so if I get infected I'm "protected" like Dr. Fauci and Walensky says". The problem being

 

LONG COVID IS REAL.

 

Doctors are able to identify people who have had covid *just by looking at PET scans of their brains, MRIs of organs*. It looks like Alzheimer's. The previous figure of 30% of infections having some kind of organ damage is probably going to be revised upward a lot. If for nothing else, you don't want to get covid because, I guarantee you, at some point in the future, *your insurance rate will go up if you've had it*. Because the reality is there isn't such thing as a "mild" infection; just because you think you feel fine doesn't mean you really are.

 

As I wrote before, I've some experience in being able to "evaluate" post-covid people in guitar lessons. In most of them I claim cognitive decline. From the guy that I have to remind him what he was literally just doing 15 seconds ago - who has lost the ability to remember how to name chords (he'll have trouble remembering what an open C chord is... then he'll call an E major C major... he'll say "oh yeah, hahaha"), to the woman I had that had to quit because she literally couldn't focus on anything for longer than a few seconds; she could play chords, strum in time, but just go blank with either what to play next, or make the same mistake over and over... and realize it, laugh about it. She quit, told me "I can't seem to do this anymore".

 

That's terrifying to *me*, but maybe not to other people? YMMV I guess?

 

The vaccines keep you from DYING. They DON'T keep you from getting infected and transmitting it to others. How bad you get sick has nothing to do with long term effects - there may actually be an inverse relationship. My wife (professional statistician) says the stats imply it's going to be a syndrome like herpes, fibro myalgia, lupus or Epstein Barr, once you get it you're always going to have it. Like shingles, you'll have life long flare ups to deal with. Except, unlike shingles, it will be your brain, heart, liver or lungs malfunctioning.

 

Have fun at the gig....

[Chip McDonald]

Some Nashville venues are starting to require proof of vaccination or a negative test within the past 24 hours.

 

Useless. If you're vaccinated you can still be infected and transmit it to others.

 

 

However, it seems there are already plenty of places to get fake vaccination cards.

 

 

... which should be against the law, effectively no different than identity theft.

 

 

It also seems the Lambda variation is more resistant to the existing vaccines.

 

Thanks to clubs, restaurants, other public places being open we're going to get to find out all about lambda.

 

 

It's not definitive yet, but it appears that way.

 

It's "pretty definite". Not that it matters; it's already definite vaccines are not as effective against delta. For vaccinations older than 6 months basically not at all.

 

Some people there think that we missed the window of opportunity.

 

Some people here said that months ago.

 

And I'm going to say again: eventually nations will realize the sooner they eradicate it, the sooner their economy is back to 100%. And the only way to do that is with a real lockdown that is longer than the duration of the course of the virus, 28 days minimum. The smart nations will do it, against the political uproar it will cause for a month - like what they originally did in Australia before the idiots wrecked it - and eventually most nations will follow. Because the Paris Orleans study shows vax and natural immunity efficacy is limited in duration, AND the variants will continue to evade. There is no other way out. We're wasting time and lives.

 

 

won't be down to normal flu-like status (just more dangerous) until 2023.

 

It won't ever be normal now. We should have locked down back in February until everyone was vaccinated. It was the only obviously prudent and logical thing to do, and we didn't do it. There is zero reason to think it's ever going to get better now; immunity will never catch up to the variants, thanks to people continuing to allow it to replicate.

 

So, the bottom line for performing or going to concerts is still up in the air.

 

No it's not. Continue to do them and go to them and you're helping to prolong it.

 

 

. So maybe the way to deal with people who won't get the vaccine is to just let them get sick and get antibodies, because.

 

The Paris Orleans study shows immunity, whether artificial or natural (natural not really being very effective) wanes in 6 months.

 

This never stops, unless people stop making excuses to go around other people "I'm vaccinated", "I'm wearing a mask", "they're wearing a mask", "we're outdoors" - none of that matters at this point. We're just treading water until people get tired enough of it, or finally smart enough to be scared of it, to actually do something real. Going to shows right now is making it worse.

[Anderton]

Going to shows right now is making it worse.

 

Well, I certainly wouldn't go to any indoor shows. I'm less concerned about outside shows that follow protocols, at least for now.

 

It's almost impossible to avoid people. For example, every year I have to get a smog test for my car. The facilities are outside, and the people wear masks. There are times when I have to drop things off at the post office. I wear a mask, and get in and out as fast as possible.

 

Nothing can be done about the past, except try not to make the same mistakes in the future. I do think that there's going to be a renewed interest in streaming concerts. I agree that pretending things are okay, and we can go to concerts and events, is just pushing the end (or at least amelioration of this) out further. Cases in Nashville are rising exponentially, with timings that implicate the 4th of July. As much as I wanted to go (the fireworks display is beyond belief), I didn't.

 

I was seriously considering putting together a live act for Halloween, before Delta started climbing. Now I'm thinking it will need to be YouTube streaming.

[Notes_Norton]

We gigged last night. It was a party that was booked and paid for before COVID. It was for a guy's 90th birthday (belated).

 

Here is a picture of our 'office'.

 

http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/HarborCovePR.jpg

 

I of course felt a little uncomfortable playing while Florida is the US Epicenter of Delta, but it was paid for over a year ago, they guy might not make it to 92, and I didn't see a graceful way to back out.

 

Fortunately the wind was coming off the water, at our backs, and we are vaccinated and both have very good immune systems.

 

Notes

[Anderton]

Well, we decided not to go to the Counting Crows concert. Even though it's outside, it's in an amphitheater where it will be impossible to avoid being next to people.

 

Since a lot of this is playing the odds, the more people there are, the more the odds are stacked against you. Sure, you can get infected if you run across the wrong person, but the odds of running across the wrong person increase dramatically in crowds.

 

Interestingly, right after we decided not to go, there was a report on the news that Counting Crows canceled two concerts (Boston and Ohio) because someone in the crew got covid.

 

There's so much we don't know about how this is all going to play out, but it does seem pretty clear from existing data that large groups of people getting together is the worst possible scenario.

[KenElevenShadows]

Large groups getting together is a bad scenario.

Large groups getting together indoors is worse.

Large groups getting together and singing indoors is still even worse.

[Notes_Norton]

I suspect if I caught the plague, the saxophone could be considered a weapon.

 

We have another outdoor gig coming this month. I've played this one before. The tables separate the guests pretty well, and it spills over into the parking lot.

 

It does feel good to gig, although there is a bit of nervousness to it. We are being very choosy about what to accept. Someone offered us a gig in a club that has been closed twice so far due to COVID. It's frequented by the anti-vaxx/anti-mask group, and it's indoors. To make matters worse, the band plays in front of the AC return, which as I understand it is the most dangerous place to be. So we declined. So as not to insult the client, we told her we had a previous booking.

 

Notes

[Anderton]

Someone offered us a gig in a club that has been closed twice so far due to COVID. It's frequented by the anti-vaxx/anti-mask group, and it's indoors. To make matters worse, the band plays in front of the AC return, which as I understand it is the most dangerous place to be. So we declined. So as not to insult the client, we told her we had a previous booking.

 

Good move.

[Notes_Norton]

My next office (We've been playing this 900 slot RV resort for years.

 

http://www.nortonmusic.com/pix/Coyote3.jpg

 

In the winter time, 600 of those RV lots are booked by French Canadians who are trying to get out of the cold for the winter. These people know how to party. I hope the border is open then.

 

I love my job.

 

Notes

[Joe Muscara]

Stevie Nicks cancels tour over Covid fears: 'At my age, I am extremely cautious"

 

Jason Isbell, Limp Bizkit and Lynyrd Skynyrd also cancel concerts as Covid-19 cases continue to rise in the US

[Notes_Norton]

Just when things were looking up, my future bookings are dropping again. Sad, but it's better than being dead.

[Anderton]

A lot of cancellations are occurring. It's entirely possible that people are being alarmist, and that like the UK, Delta will slash and burn its way through the population, and then make its exit by the end of September. It's also entirely possible it won't, and that something else will flair up in the Winter.

 

The uncertainty is what's driving people nuts, because it's really not possible to make any long-term plans. During the "lull," and after being vaccinated, I planned to go out to Seattle in mid-September. Now I'm not so sure. As mentioned previously, my wife and I ended up not going to the Counting Crows concert last night after seeing the amphitheater layout, and making a guess about the demographic. We probably could have gone, and it probably would have been okay...but the exponential rate of infections in Tennessee, with Davidson county being a hot spot, and breakthrough infections occurring in people with underlying conditions, gave pause. Too bad.

[ajstan]

Festivals, indoor and outdoor bars, and concerts are all open here. Restaurants are full and there is typically a wait time to get a table at anyplace that"s halfway decent. It seems that symptomatic people are staying home. I can"t remember the last time a saw a person coughing, sneezing, or blowing their nose in public. As a quasi-germophobe I appreciate that.

 

Busy summer band schedule with a mix of all types of venues, but primarily outdoor. Nothing being cancelled so far. Good crowds, active dance floors, people singing along with the songs, and selling a lot of t-shirts. Bands are going to see other bands on their nights off.

[Notes_Norton]

We played last night at the location I photographed 5 posts previous to this one.

 

Unfortunately, Tropical Storm Fred was knocking at our door, and it rained most of the night. We set up further in against a wall to keep our gear dry. Fortunately, the winds were in a favorable direction, so the rain didn't come in and drench the guests either.

 

As is the case with Tropical Storms and Hurricanes, the rain comes in waves of torrential rain separated by periods of no rain at all, so we packed in and out with no problem, waiting for a break in the rain.

 

The place was packed to the point where they had to move tables and chairs out of the rec room to accommodate all that wanted to be there. There were two people celebrating their 91st birthday and one celebrating his 18th birthday.

 

The table closest to the band of about 20 people were proudly all vaccinated. That made us breathe a little easier.

 

We booked this one before the state became the epicenter of the Delta virus, and we aren't taking any more gigs this month and probably through September. [deleted political comment] I want to avoid COVID like the plague, even though I am vaccinated.

 

But I must say, it was fun gigging. It's Mrs. Notes and my second favorite thing to do.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Chip McDonald]

It looks like Tennessee is around 1 in a 100 prevalence? A little higher for Georgia, way higher for Florida. You can't responsibly have a gig or go to one when you know there is at least someone present infected, and it's an opportunity for them to infect more. For certain demographics it's probably much worse than that, but then the "sophisticated" Obama party appears to "maybe have infected some folks" - based on Martha Vineyard local numbers, where vaccination is 90%. So making educated guesses on an event being "safe" based on the nature of the attendees doesn't work.

 

 

Plotted against the UK curve we have at least 2 more months. On the other hand, they had mask mandates the whole time and a better vaccinated populace. At the rate the U.S. is getting infected, the "sociopath natural vaccination" herd immunity experiment should kick in around mid December. I predict we'll see a sudden droop in the curve around October. I also predict that it might plunge in December, but it's going to bottom out around 10-15,000 a day again.

 

 

1) if it goes down after an incubation cycle at the 10,000 mark - say 3 weeks - we should know by late January if herd immunity is happening. The downside being everyone will again act as if it's over; natural immunity going away in a few months, combined with vaccinations waning, will mean, once again, it will tick up around March 2022.

 

2) If by October it *levels out*, and doesn't go down - *it will again be an indicator there is another player involved*, lambda (thanks, Florida and Texas). The fact that the original strain tail-out (it was "adaptive release" or "opto release" when it should have been 1176...) wasn't linear obviously indicated delta was rising. That it took weeks for epidemiologists to see that is baffling; the medical community talking heads have become so inculcated in the Fear of Lawsuits that they presume their "job" now is just to comment on what has already happened. When they should be conservative and THINKING AHEAD to warn the populace.

 

Regardless, if it doesn't fall off linearly, as it's rising now, we'll know lambda is underway.

 

If lambda catches on, with little to no efficacy from vaccination or natural immunity, 2022 will shut all of the idiots up - one way or another. There are no safe/responsible gatherings until possibly late January IF best outcome-scenario #1 happens.

 

But of course, just like with vaccinations, if it starts going down in October, everyone will screw it up: *if you use a fall off in the infection rate as an excuse to "reopen", "go back to normalcy", start doing gigs - YOU are wrecking our future*. Because without it burning out below 10,000 infections a day, giving it an opportunity to spread - which is what you're doing if you go to any gathering - is both giving it another chance to replicate and MUTATE, and the lambda variant a chance to get a foothold.

 

 

[align:center] WE MUST RESIST THE URGE TO GO TO MASS GATHERINGS UNTIL IT'S OVER!

[/align]

 

Lambda will WIPE US OUT if it catches on.

Don't contribute to wrecking the future.

 

/ bonus: covid infection results in what amounts to brain damage. Covid infection long term Alzheimer-like effects

[Anderton]

[align:center] WE MUST RESIST THE URGE TO GO TO MASS GATHERINGS UNTIL IT'S OVER!

[/align]

 

Well, that's what we did. But, that got me thinking about good news/bad news for bands and other performers.

 

The bad news: Since we didn't go to the concert, my wife checked out the setlist and made a playlist. But the setlist was missing a lot of her favorite songs, so she threw those in as well, and she found decent versions of them on YouTube. No driving, no parking, better sound quality, we could listen at whatever level we wanted, there weren't a bunch of people running around (which even without a pandemic can be a hassle), no ear protection needed, no long ride home. Granted, we missed the "live" experience...but on balance, it really made me wonder whether I'd rather to go a concert, even when things are back to "normal." The "DIY concert" had a lot going for it.

 

The good news: If the band had been playing live in a studio and streaming, we would have gladly paid concert ticket prices for the privilege of watching it. Best of both worlds - the music of a concert, without the hassle. And for the band, no flatbed trucks, no venue costs, no months on the road...seems like a win-win.

 

Maybe the goal should not be to wait to a return to the status quo, but to figure out an alternate model for concerts that some (many?) people would find preferable. Once VR kicks in for real, along with Atmos-type immersive sound, watching musicians the size of postage stamps playing through a PA system, with a questionable mix, that's pumping out hearing damage-friendly levels, might not be as appealing.

[KuruPrionz]

[align:center] WE MUST RESIST THE URGE TO GO TO MASS GATHERINGS UNTIL IT'S OVER!

[/align]

 

Well, that's what we did. But, that got me thinking about good news/bad news for bands and other performers.

 

The bad news: Since we didn't go to the concert, my wife checked out the setlist and made a playlist. But the setlist was missing a lot of her favorite songs, so she threw those in as well, and she found decent versions of them on YouTube. No driving, no parking, better sound quality, we could listen at whatever level we wanted, there weren't a bunch of people running around (which even without a pandemic can be a hassle), no ear protection needed, no long ride home. Granted, we missed the "live" experience...but on balance, it really made me wonder whether I'd rather to go a concert, even when things are back to "normal." The "DIY concert" had a lot going for it.

 

The good news: If the band had been playing live in a studio and streaming, we would have gladly paid concert ticket prices for the privilege of watching it. Best of both worlds - the music of a concert, without the hassle. And for the band, no flatbed trucks, no venue costs, no months on the road...seems like a win-win.

 

Maybe the goal should not be to wait to a return to the status quo, but to figure out an alternate model for concerts that some (many?) people would find preferable. Once VR kicks in for real, along with Atmos-type immersive sound, watching musicians the size of postage stamps playing through a PA system, with a questionable mix, that's pumping out hearing damage-friendly levels, might not be as appealing.

 

I almost never go to concerts any more, they've never sounded great for the most part (WAY TOO LOUD!!!! uhhh... what?) and with hearing protection in it's still not good fidelity at all.

"live" from the studio might be nice. Live streaming with a serious upgrade.

[Notes_Norton]

I haven't been to a concert since COVID knocked on our door, and won't until it is under control.

 

I am not taking indoor gigs, and right now I have nothing until Halloween. I plan on keeping it that way unless another of the already paid for before COVID parties call.

 

"No thanks" to the science-deniers, we don't have herd immunity, so that affects my ability to gig, especially since 1985 I've chosen the 'senior citizen' market.

 

But as the re-issued George says, "All Things Must Pass".

 

Avoiding the plague like the plague Notes

[KuruPrionz]

Yesterday we played an outdoor gig, it was fun and the logistics were excellent. They are booked for the rest of the summer and will stop having live music in winter months.

We had "that talk" about the reality of gigs being untenable for winter. One of the local clubs we played a fair amount in the past had a Facebook post that one of the staff tested positive for Covid and they were going to close the venue for quarantine.

 

I made it clear that I will not enter that building again until further notice, which could be a long time from now if ever.

There are a couple of places in town that have large covered areas with heaters and as long as the wind doesn't kick up one could gig there with some social distancing.

I'm not real hopeful and glad I have another part time job for now. We'll get in a few more shows outdoors this season and then it may not be until Spring before we play again.

Or we may figure out how to put on a quality show on line. I don't expect much from that, the "live stream" idea is hugely overpopulated with cell phone videos and bad lighting, people are tired of the idea of it for now.

[Anderton]

Or we may figure out how to put on a quality show on line. I don't expect much from that, the "live stream" idea is hugely overpopulated with cell phone videos and bad lighting, people are tired of the idea of it for now.

 

I think "quality" is the key word here. Hopefully the bar will get raised, and it will become viable. Think of all the crap videos on YouTube, and people with 12 subscribers...but then there are those who have built followings. I don't see streaming concerts as being any different.