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Windows 11 - a rocky road ahead?


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Windows 11 requirements are quite steep/strict. Many people will have to upgrade to new higher end hardware to run it (and thus buy a new copy of Windows).

 

Problematic Windows 11 Requirements:

1. TPM 2.0 (Trusted Platform Module)

2. Secure Boot

3. UEFI (vs standard BIOS)

4. Hard Disk must use GPT (vs the more common MBR - Master Boot Record)

5. -- >> Only supports CPUs released in the last 3-4 years.

 

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Don't you worry, it'll get worse!!!!

 

I use Windows at work, have for many years. I buy Macs for home use, I prefer the system. Either one will get the job done. Korg or Roland? Fender or Gibson? In the end it's a wash.

 

At some point, I'll have to buy into the new M1 thing and probably replace my recording interface but I'm scooting along nicely on a 2014 MacBook Pro for now and before that was a 2008 Mac Pro desktop so I've gotten good mileage out of them at least.

 

As my brother said often (he wrote code for a living), on the cutting edge there will be blood.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I´ll not upgrade !

I´m already not satisfied w/ Win10 for audio/MIDI and still prefer Win 7 (and sometimes even WinXP).

 

Since I recognized there will be Win11 soon, I think about deciding for more hardware again, use what I have in software as long the old machines run well,- and go Reaper w/ Linux on a dedicated "recording" DAW machine.

 

I never tried Reaper w/ Linux up to now, but I can imagine it constantly improves until Win11 is out and software manufacturers make it urgently necessary w/ their system requirements.

 

Apple w/ their M1/M2 processors are tempting,- but I doubt I´ll invest in these because I´m not used to buying new hardware about every 3 years, get to the mainboard soldered RAM and SSDs and have to live w/ their always quick changing physical connectors strategy.

 

I do build my own machines which is saving a lot of money.

 

I´d wish more and more software manufacturers would decide for Linux instead being addicted to Microsoft and Apple.

 

A.C.

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I've been sticking with Windows 7 on all my computers except for the ones running XP. I wanted to try Windows 10 to see if a couple of IK Multimedia programs that I wanted to play with would work better than on Win 7 - they ran but the GUI never was right. I've been accustomed to buying 5 or so year old computers from our friendly local used computer store, but, alas, that store is no more.

 

I was hoping to find a new laptop, and Micro Center got a lot of new Lenovos for $200, so I picked one up. The IK programs worked, but there were enough other things that I didn't like about the computer (including Windows 10 - my first Win10 computer so I didn't have time to housebreak it) so that I returned it. I guess that the user is getting as old as the computers around here and I'll have to live with it.

 

One of the things I didn't like was that it had no Ethernet port (it assumes WiFi everywhere), so no using it with Dante gear, which was somewhere out there on my RADAR. Also, this was to replace a travel computer, and, while it had a 14" screen, it was larger than the classic 14" laptop and too big for me.

 

New hardware? The new hardware around here is a vintage 1998 Mackie d8b console. No computer required.

 

I don't think I'll live long enough to get anything here running under Win 11.

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In Microsoft's defense, Windows 10 was introduced in 2015, and they promise support until the EOL in mid-2025, a 10 year period. NONE of my 10 PCs are new enough for TPM 2.0 (1 of those is Linux, 2 of them are WIn 8.1, the rest are Win 10). I also have three Macs, only one supports Big Sur (and won't support this years release), one supports Catalina, one supports High Sierra.

 

I THINK that the processor requirement is tied to the TPM requirement. As a long time IT person, I DO understand the requirement for TPM (stands for Trusted Platform Module) 2.0. A number of significant security holes have been found in the older 1.2 version. While some holes can be patched with a firmware update, many are baked into the hardware on the motherboard, so that update to 2.0 is impossible. Motherboards that support TPM 2.0 only became available in mid 2017, and the processor requirements are likely tied to the mid-2017 and later motherboard issue.

 

Many of those later machines shipped still configured for TPM1.2, but they CAN be changed in the BIOS. While many end users won't understand how to do that, a great deal of video documentation will likely become available.

 

OEM Windows 10 licensing has required that manufacturers ship the computers already configured with GPT drive formatting and with both UEFI and Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot can be changed on most motherboards, and may well have been turned off so the user could setup a dual boot with some other operating system.

UEFI BIOS not quite so easy. Many of the earlier, but still TPM 2 compatible machines were setup with the "Legacy" MBR format, and many used machines were user formatted with MBR. The two are totally incompatible, meaning that a total reinstall is required to convert. GPT was introduced on Windows primarily as a means of handling very large drives. (Macs that I'm familiar with do use GPT formatting although the actual formatting changed during the lifetime of High Sierra).

 

 

I have that many computers because each serves a somewhat different function. Five are in my shop, 2 Mac, 2 Windows 10, and 1 Mint Linux. The two Windows 8.1 computers are used with HDTV tuners to record off-air programming, much like having a Tivo without the monthly bills. Then I can time-shift the programs without streaming from the Internet, since my provider limits me to 250GB per month (unless I want to increase the already high billing). A couple are really spare, since my work REQUIRES having a working Windows computer at all times to avoid loss of billing (and clients).

 

SO, I will probably purchase a single used machine which is capable of running Windows 11, with a quad i5, 8 or 16G RAM, and SSD. That will be used to become very familiar with the use and capability of the change, so that I'm prepared as my clients and potential clients shift. (some of my current machines are as old as a decade or bit more).

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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... computers already configured with GPT drive formatting and with both UEFI and Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot can be changed on most motherboards, and may well have been turned off so the user could setup a dual boot with some other operating system.

UEFI BIOS not quite so easy.

 

What´s the problem w/ UEFI ?

Win10 for audio/MIDI drives me nuts because it´s searching for updates in background always and even you use the user setting to pause that for some days.

For most of the privacy issues Win10Privacy is big help, but sometimes an update brings back a few "features" you carefully disabled before.

But I never had any issues w/ UEFI.

 

Many of the earlier, but still TPM 2 compatible machines were setup with the "Legacy" MBR format, and many used machines were user formatted with MBR. The two are totally incompatible, meaning that a total reinstall is required to convert. GPT was introduced on Windows primarily as a means of handling very large drives.

 

The free version of Minitool Partition Wizzard converted MBR formatted drives to GPT and vice versa several times successful here.

No data loss.

But I didn´t try w/ OS drive.

Are you sayin´ conversion is impossible even connecting the drive to another machine,- just because the/ a OS is on that drive already ?

 

I have that many computers because each serves a somewhat different function.

 

Same here.

 

A.C.

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Back when WIN7 came out, I was faced with replacing my computer, printer, peripherals - EVERYTHING.

 

Since I had to spend that much money, I jumped ship and bought a Mac Pro (2012). Best move I ever made, I do not miss Microsoft.

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The early motherboard UEFI was pretty much unexplored territory, and my understanding is that some implementations had issues.

As with many new things, there wasn't much real help available at the first.

 

Al, I continued to use WIndows 7 for a while on some computers, especially the 2001-5 vintage where the Pentium processor wouldn't qualify for Windows 8. Windows 8.0 was really problematic in the new interface, 8.1 improved it some, and the $5 or so Start8 menu system made it much more usable. Since most of my computers are live on Internet (although behind a hardware firewall), eventually the risk/reward ratio became tilted enough to remove the risk.

 

I've been generally well satisfied with my Macs, although the High Sierra OS on the 2011 Macbook Pro (died and replaced with a 2012 Mini) developed a problem after one of the updates that TimeMachine didn't work - just kept grinding away until all the space was used and failed. Never found a solution to get TM going on that computer. High Sierra on my older 2011 Mini doesn't have the problem, it was probably something corrupted on the specific computer. At any rate, solved the backup issue with SuperDuper, although not quite as full-featured.

 

I have one PC and two VMs under Parallels running Linux Mint Cinnamon. Don't use it much for general stuff, but my business services some NAS boxes, and a native machine to format drives which can read them and write them is useful.

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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Al, I continued to use WIndows 7 for a while on some computers, especially the 2001-5 vintage where the Pentium processor wouldn't qualify for Windows 8. Windows 8.0 was really problematic in the new interface, 8.1 improved it some, and the $5 or so Start8 menu system made it much more usable. Since most of my computers are live on Internet (although behind a hardware firewall), eventually the risk/reward ratio became tilted enough to remove the risk.

 

I use Win XP SP3 and Win 7 x86 and x64 Pro striktly for DAW machines.

The Win 7 machines are connected to the router/hardware firewall and run efficient antivirus and anti-malware apps,- BUT the ethernet connection is rarely activated.

If it is, it is for updates and connecting to trusty servers, p.ex. NI, Presonus, Cockos etc..

There´s no reason NOT to run Win7 for DAW,- except some windows installers now became incompatible w/ Win 7,- ironically just only because the installer is unable to automaticly install a PDF user manual to "my documents" because of idiotic security reasons.

When the Win10 installer allows to specify a different folder on a different drive/ partition, it still works w/ Win 7 x64.

 

Examples:

DiscoDSP OBX-d didn´´t install the latest version because of exactly the reason mentioed above,- Sonic Projects "Stringer 3.0" (x64) flawlessly installed on Win 7 Pro x64 even it´s system requiremets want Win10 (and up).

The Sonic Projects installer allowed the user selecting destination folders.

That´s it, - simple as that !

 

Only my laptop is Win 10 Pro x64 as is my office machine BECAUSE these are connected to the web more often or always.

 

A.C.

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I use Win XP SP3 and Win 7 x86 and x64 Pro striktly for DAW machines.

 

And I use those computers for everything. I have two computers with active DAWs (or at least as active as a DAW gets around here) and DAWs scattered here and there among the other computers, primarily for trying things out. The other computers are used for things like forums, e-mail, writing, dumb web surfing, smart web surfing, and bookkeeping. I've never had a malware problem.

 

There´s no reason NOT to run Win7 for DAW,- except some windows installers now became incompatible w/ Win 7,- ironically just only because the installer is unable to automaticly install a PDF user manual to "my documents" because of idiotic security reasons.

 

I've tried installing a couple of DAWs on a knock-around Win7 computer and been greeted with "This program requires Windows 10" with no reason given. Too bad, PreSonus, I can't get a peek at the newest Studio One. I think I have Studio 1 Version 3 installed on one of the "DAW" computers, though I've never used it. I've also tried a couple of IK Multimedia programs - ARC3 and MixBox - that installed and ran, but the menu bar at the top of the screen was obscured by a Windows menu bar so I couldn't get beyond the main screen of that program that I wanted to run. Same problem with both programs and with two computers that I tried them with. Tech Support tried to help but was baffled. When I had a Win10 computer here for evaluation, I installed both and they worked fine.

 

It's not terribly important for me to be able to use those programs so I just accept it. But some day I might find something that I really want to use and will have to break down and set up a Win10 computer. I've actually been wanting to do that for several months, but my local used computer store closed up so I don't have a suitable (to the software and me) computer to set up. Anyone got a 5 or so year old Win10-capable desktop computer with a few bus expansion slots that they want to give away or sell for under $200? That's my limit.

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Well,- I also cannot buy/ install Presonus Studio One Pro v5 upgrade because my audio DAW is still Win 7 Pro SP1 x64.

 

I have no intention upgrading to Win10 and install all new,- meanwhuile I´m to old to do so and think about retireing, going back to well assorted hardware just to have fun playing keys and occasionally compose/arrange and doin´ a demo.

 

It would be a nitemare installing NI Komplete 12 UCE and other gigabyte sized stuff incl. Reason 10/11 and all the Refill and sample content I own just only because of an upgrade to Win10 or 11 when all the s##t runs well in Win 7 anyway.

Most updates/upgrades are more or less "content and featuritis" upgrades anyway,- made for the "one finger trigger" so called "keyboardplayers" or programmers "making BEATZ" !

 

Who want´s my Presonus Studio One Pro 4.6 licence ?

I don´t need anymore.

 

Reason possibly too ...

 

plz p.m. ...

 

A.C.

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I've heard a couple of rumors that might soften the blow. One is that Microsoft is waiving the TPM requirement in some OEM versions of Windows 11. Say what?!? Well, if that's true and you can get your hands on one of the non-TPM OEM versions, you might be okay.

 

Windows 10 support ends officially in October 2025, so we get security updates and such for another 4+ years with our current machines. However, the other rumor I've heard is that Microsoft will extend support for Windows beyond that date, although maybe it will be a situation where you have to pay a fee for updates.

 

That said, I'm at a crossroads. Both Apple AND Microsoft are saying trash your existing hardware. My circa-mid 2012 MPB can't run anything after Catalina, but I want to wait until the M-series processors have a few more miles on them before I buy one. Buying anything Apple that's version 1.0 is almost invariably a mistake. As software companies transition to making M-only software, the MBP will join my dual Xeon (bought two weeks before the cutoff of eligibility for 64-bit operation) and dual G5 desktop Macs in "useless curio world," and there will be an M-series processor in my future.

 

I'm pretty sure my main music computer (Windows 10), which is less than a year old, will be able to run Windows 11. But my backup desktop, office computer, and laptop have processors that are too old. However, using any of them compared to using the new computer is like slogging through mud. in 4+ years, I'll be ready to buy new hardware, if not before.

 

I totally understand why software companies won't support older machines. For example, the number of people running a 32-bit OS is probably less than 1% of their user base. Support is slammed enough (software just doesn't have the margins needed for hardcore support) without having to take a minority of their users into account. Also, newer versions take advantage of changes in operating systems that might not work with older versions.

 

Whenever I get upset about having to keep up with the world of computers, I remind myself how much a 24-track tape recorder cost, how much maintenance it needed, and how much reels of tape cost...then I feel better :)

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Like Craig, I am waiting for the M1 (M2 or 3?) technology to mature. Probably a Mac Mini in my future at some point.

I don't find myself moving my laptop around much at all. Maybe I'd get a smallish touch screen to go with the Mini, could use it as a second monitor or as a possibility if I do go mobile.

 

That is all a ways out in the future. If I were Windows based I wouldn't be in any hurry to migrate to 11 either. Software is being released that is still in Beta, the public becomes testers. Not for me, I want simple.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
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I didn't realize just how bad the supply chain is until today. One of my business clients buys HP refurbished business computers. When HP gets a complaint on their business line, up to 30 days, they FedEx a new computer with a return tag. Many of these have no real problem, some user issue. They might have a scratch or two. HP internally fixes any problem, does a complete software reload, and sells them through their Business Out web store. The buyer saves between about 10% and 50% (depending on whether the machine is current generation and how long they have been trying to move it). This has proven to be an excellent way to get my clients a high quality machine that will last and do the job. I make a small amount for the time, it is registered in their name, and I usually make more in setting it up for their internal use.

 

My largest client - one owner wants a new notebook compatible with Windows 11 for the other owner to replace their home notebook. (Both kept the older computer and use it at home, so they don't have to carry one in and out of the office every day). I had gotten her a 17" Zbook, which she absolutely loves. She wants a new 17" Zbook. Only one they make is the Zbook Fury. Store had 2 yesterday at opening (I get an email every day). She tried to order one, was gone. The other was gone also. So, I'm checking to see if another shows up. I thought I'd also check on a brand-new Fury. Got on website where one can configure and order new business computers. Price obviously higher, but that might be OK. If it was ordered TODAY, it would arrive 25 NOVEMBER, 2021. Usually a custom order arrives in several weeks.

 

Gonna be a while before the semiconductor shortage gets better. I'm satisfied with used at a decent price, will be ordering one in next few days (desktop workstation, not notebook - I'm still happy with my considerably older HP Zbook 17 generation 2. Best machine I've ever had (except if I have to carry it a long distance).

Howard Grand|Hamm SK1-73|Kurz PC2|PC2X|PC3|PC3X|PC361; QSC K10's

HP DAW|Epi Les Paul & LP 5-str bass|iPad mini2

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jim

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  • 2 months later...
Windows 10 support ends officially in October 2025
So no more forced updates? Man I will throw a party on that day.

 

PS from what I recall, most machines now days have TPM 2.0 and it's not true that it will only support CPUs in the last 3, 4 years....still, while I don't like Win 10, I have no desire to "upgrade." I've read some about it and really it sounds more like Win 10.1, with minor tweaks that they're trying to sell as a big deal and zero benefit that I see.

 

This is nothing new for MS, release a new version because people are so hypnotized into keeping up with the Joneses that they'll buy it anyway and the money rolls in.

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