Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

The great plugin catastrophe


Recommended Posts

It's been 5 months since I posted in this thread. 

Just in the last couple of days I updated to OS Monterey since my DAW (Waveform Pro 12) is now running on Apple Silicon M1. 

I want to get past the Rosetta step, some plugins need removed temporarily until they are updated and some just have to go away. 

 

I've doing both, will need to update a good few. I keep reading that these Mac Minis with 16 gb ram and SSD drive can rip right along if you run everything native. 

That's the goal, not there yet but I did thin the herd a good bit. 

 

I'm gravitating more and more towards getting the sounds I want going in, without plugins. Will never be 100% either way. 

 

Anybody else on this path? Or getting your Windows 11 tweaked and screamin'? 😳

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites



Today was a follow-up on updating plugins and deleting a few more that I won't be using. 

I got lots of updates installed and then learned that there is a new update for Monterey OS that came out today and has lots of bug fixes. 

So that's still coming, no rest for the wicked. 

 

I'm able to run things much faster now and the sound has cleared up nicely. I'll probably never figure out which plugins were bogging down but it doesn't matter. 

Having several compressors, eq plugins, etc. turns out to make a certain amount of sense - some things are going to get left behind and it's not controllable - at least not by me. 

 

Despite all the progress other software companies have made, IK Multimedia is saying that they've got SampleTank, Syntronix 2 and MODO Drum compatible with Apple Silicon.

SampleTank is a compiler and most of the stuff I had compiled Rosetta at best or maybe (Sample Tank 3 sounds) not even viable any more. 

Meanwhile, Native Instruments is giving the go ahead for Kontakt and that's all. Kontakt is another compiler, they aren't going to update the Studio Drummer plugin that I bought in 2011. 

 

So at this point, I've deleted almost everything by those 2 vendors and I had quite the stash. I've kept the installer compilers from both companies, those are well done and maybe eventually I'll be able to add some things back in. 

 

If not, so it goes. I can still record anything I can play and that's what I want more than anything else. I have lots of plugin options and they seem to work well.

There just isn't that much of a learning curve once you get how an EQ works and what frequencies seem to fit which instrument, the same is true with compressors and limiters. 

They don't sound identical but good results are at hand. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought Cherry Audio's Polymode, in part because of their Moog sale, but also because I had a real "need" for a solid Vox Humana source. The Polymoog was always a transitional oddity to me, as it was waiting for the sea-change of instant patch changes, Prophet style. I was as impressed by the means for the Polymoog to trigger a Minimoog from its top note as I was with the sound itself, which badly needed effecting.

 

While its far from the first synth you'd choose for broad sound design, it has a nicer aroma than I'd expected. Its a proggy thing, often used as an early poly that wasn't a cheapo transistor organ in a nice dress. It has some predictably Moog-y basses, but the main beauty resides in the modulation and colorful EQ options. There's a subtle analog feel to both. I also disagree with criticisms of CA's effects; I think they're well-crafted for the analog instruments they serve. I mainly find myself using them as a mild sweetener for feeding my better effects. Its a good mix. 

 

I can get a Mini from the Memorymode, but the Poly is a different animal. If you want some excellent synth pad helper or a great string synth emulator, this is a good way to get both. The tri-chorus hands you a Solina on a platter.

  • Love 1

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for posting, I love reading stuff like this.  We all go about things in different yet similar paths.

I have 4 Cherry Audio synths, the first 3 on the list are currently loaded as AU plugins, only the Quadra is both AU and VST. 

Surrealistic MG-1 Plus

Polymode

Eight Voice

Quadra

 

I reinstalled yesterday, Cherry has updated versions for Apple Silicon.

 I need to go back and get all just VST. Fishman Triple Play guitar MIDI interface likes VST and won't read AU. Stupid me, will fix. 

 

That said, so far I have no idea what any of them sound like. I'm guessing that my version of "sound design" probably differs from yours but I really enjoy doing it. 

Triple Play allows 4 synths simultaneously. That can get glitchy or even crash in my experience. My "sound design starts with trying combinations of 4 synths each with a specific preset. The variations come by mixing the 4 presets rather than adjusting parameters in an individual synth, which honestly makes my tiny brain hurt.

 

A big part of that fun is finding presets that have very different envelopes so the sound becomes animated. Octaves are fun, so are splits - Triple Play allows the 5th and 6th string to be fully indepedent of the other 4. 

 

Once I find a few things I can make individual MIDI tracks of the synth presets that I thought were fun. If I render those sounds as audio I can animate volume, pan and lately every setting on a complex effect like Eventide Split EQ. There were literally over 80 parameters I could animate on that, which made me run away screaming. 

 

Being able to animate the mix of effect and straight sound or the depth/cycle/tone of either/both is a goal at this point. I know how to do it, it will happen. 

 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Once I find a few things I can make individual MIDI tracks of the synth presets that I thought were fun. If I render those sounds as audio I can animate volume, pan and lately every setting on a complex effect like Eventide Split EQ. There were literally over 80 parameters I could animate on that, which made me run away screaming. 

 

 

I can relate to the screaming part. I believe it was Eno who said something along the lines of e-musicians being there to provide the soundtrack for special effects animators, who had little time for anything but the work and were thus a prime audience for ambient. I get the feeling that a similar breed crams the features of the gods into things, right up the the inner lip of the budget for the project. 

 

To me, the test is this: will even my last couple of living synth buddies be able to hear all of the tweedling I did, or will they just hear the aggregate song like everyone else? Probably the latter, which seems more right anyway. Magic 8-Ball says "Back to work, monkey boy."

 

 "I want to be an intellectual, but I don't have the brainpower.
  The absent-mindedness, I've got that licked."
        ~ John Cleese

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, David Emm said:

 

I can relate to the screaming part. I believe it was Eno who said something along the lines of e-musicians being there to provide the soundtrack for special effects animators, who had little time for anything but the work and were thus a prime audience for ambient. I get the feeling that a similar breed crams the features of the gods into things, right up the the inner lip of the budget for the project. 

 

To me, the test is this: will even my last couple of living synth buddies be able to hear all of the tweedling I did, or will they just hear the aggregate song like everyone else? Probably the latter, which seems more right anyway. Magic 8-Ball says "Back to work, monkey boy."

 

My synth endeavors are 100% ambient drifty stuff that floats through various songs I write. Triple Play is too glitchy to get the sort of crisp detail I like for signature licks and I suck at keyboards so real guitars or basses get those parts becasue I can play them. An aspect of being an Army of One. 

 

In the end, we work with what we can do, not with what we have. A screwdriver is better than a hammer if you are driving screws but a hammer will do the trick if you don't.

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

IK is starting to step up to the plate. It troubles me that they update their "hosting" software like SampleTank and TrackS but not the units that can reside in it. 

All of the TrackS plugins can be used on their own, I was fond of a couple of their limiters and the Hall reverb but those are not updated. They will work with Rosetta 2 but that really slows things down it seems. A step in the right direction at least. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

And... thanks to Lady Gaia's contribution to the world - a fantastic program that was just what I needed can be had here - this is for Apple M1 (Apple Silicon) users, it is an efficient way to narrow your plugins down to just Apple Silicon friendly so you can go direct and bypass Rosetta 2. I downloaded it, it self installs, all you have to do is click on it and the screen opens. Every plugin on your computer and it's exact location, all right there. Now all gone. 😇

 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Last night I cleared out all Intel Only plugins. Nothing essential but there were a few that I will miss. I prefer simplicity and sometimes things work out well. After using Eventide Split EQ for a variety of tracks, I'm thinking it does everything a good EQ plugin can do, plus you can split transients and tones and EQ them separately. The GUI is very intuitive and easy, just listen and drag dots around and you can make very subtle but useful or full on bat-shit crazy sounds with something nice and "normal" like a bass drum or tamborine. I'm just going to use that and the High and Low Pass filter plugins provided by Apple (probably for Logic Pro). Those are super simple, sound good and get the job done quickly sometimes. 3 EQs instead of maybe 12-15, much better!!!!

 

Same story with all cateories, paring down to my go-to's. I'm certain I've found things I never would have tried had I not gone off the deep end of Plug In Hell. 😋

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/14/2022 at 7:20 AM, KuruPrionz said:

Last night I cleared out all Intel Only plugins. Nothing essential but there were a few that I will miss. I prefer simplicity and sometimes things work out well. After using Eventide Split EQ for a variety of tracks, I'm thinking it does everything a good EQ plugin can do,

 

I'm gonna be that guy and point out that the reason for using different EQs is usually in the stuff they're doing that's not the plain equalising. 

 

I'll often use an API on the drums, not because I couldn't boost particular frequencies in any other equaliser, but because when you do it in that particular one, it does so in a way that can be pleasant in a way other EQs are not. 

  • Like 1

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, analogika said:

 

I'm gonna be that guy and point out that the reason for using different EQs is usually in the stuff they're doing that's not the plain equalising. 

 

I'll often use an API on the drums, not because I couldn't boost particular frequencies in any other equaliser, but because when you do it in that particular one, it does so in a way that can be pleasant in a way other EQs are not. 

 

Unless an EQ is linear phase (which has its own issues), there will be phase issues when different stages interact. API's EQs also use a proportional Q topology, which causes the EQ to react in a particular way.

 

If you're interested why the API EQs are different, Waves asked me to do an analysis of them, and the results are posted here

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, analogika said:

 

I'm gonna be that guy and point out that the reason for using different EQs is usually in the stuff they're doing that's not the plain equalising. 

 

I'll often use an API on the drums, not because I couldn't boost particular frequencies in any other equaliser, but because when you do it in that particular one, it does so in a way that can be pleasant in a way other EQs are not. 

Exactly. 

I only worry about phase issues if something sounds a bit "off". 

Split EQ's "magic trick" is that it can separately EQ the transients and the tones. Transient EQ can be used to make a kick drum "punchier" without becoming boomy, it's also excellent for de-essing vocals and tons of other fun stuffs. There are up to 6 bands each for transients and tones, nothing is the "be all, end all" but it's going to be my "go to" for now. If it fails I can try something else. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Anderton said:

 

Unless an EQ is linear phase (which has its own issues), there will be phase issues when different stages interact. API's EQs also use a proportional Q topology, which causes the EQ to react in a particular way.

 

If you're interested why the API EQs are different, Waves asked me to do an analysis of them, and the results are posted here

Great article Craig! Between you and analogika, I've learned some new things. I like that. 

It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/16/2022 at 6:38 PM, Anderton said:

 

Unless an EQ is linear phase (which has its own issues), there will be phase issues when different stages interact. API's EQs also use a proportional Q topology, which causes the EQ to react in a particular way.

 

If you're interested why the API EQs are different, Waves asked me to do an analysis of them, and the results are posted here

That's awesome. Set aside for thorough perusal later. 

 

Thanks, Craig!

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...