stoken6 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 One of my favorite examples is Paul Simon "Still Crazy After all These Years"Great nomination for this thread. There's loads going on in that song - no two verses are the same, plenty of harmonic interest, and as pointed out, it doesn't use the multi-movement trick. That's a song from my childhood and I still love playing and singing it - in James Taylor's key, oddly enough. I must say JT's piano player looks really nervous and stiff. His bass player booked him that afternoon for the gig, perhaps? Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrythek Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I would not want to be booked for a wedding, only to be told, 'The bride has requested Bohemian Rhapsody' the afternoon of the wedding. I know the band I"m in would politely answer 'No.' That"s the most complex pop song I can think of to play. I did a corporate event a few years ago where that kind of happened. Luckily we were told in advance so we all did our homework, and then ran it during soundcheck. The singers did a few more rehearsals in the green room while we waited to go on. And we did a pretty good job of it. but the band was strong, so we were up to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrythek Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 One of my favorite examples is Paul Simon "Still Crazy After all These Years"Great nomination for this thread. There's loads going on in that song - no two verses are the same, plenty of harmonic interest, and as pointed out, it doesn't use the multi-movement trick. That's a song from my childhood and I still love playing and singing it - in James Taylor's key, oddly enough. I must say JT's piano player looks really nervous and stiff. His bass player booked him that afternoon for the gig, perhaps? Cheers, Mike. Funny, I didn't get that feeling at all about the keyboard player. His name is Cliff Carter, I went to college with him in Miami back in the day. He was James' 2nd keyboard guy behind Don Grolnick, and moved into the piano chair when Don passed. I thought he nailed the part/the sound... I love playing this tune, but I play it looser since I usually do it as a solo piano piece. Great performance! Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Davis Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Band Geek did an entertaining take on this song a while back: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 [video:youtube] Quote This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodan88 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Another Paul Simon story....I know a lot of guys that have played with Paul Simon. One close friend in particular has been playing with him for MANY years. We were discussing Kodachrome one day, and he told me that on live dates, Paul bagged the mixed meter moments (two 3/4 bars in different spots, I think) years ago. Not sure why, as he always has killer bands that could easily handle those spots (and then some). Maybe Paul was getting tripped up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRW Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 Maybe not as pop(ular) as many of the other bands mentioned so far, but Ambrosia had several songs that fall into the 'more complex than typical pop" category. Always was a favorite band of mine way back when. Some Nice, Nice, Very Nice tunes. Ambrosia? Oh hell yeah. Just listen to the chords (and the harmonies!) here when the song gets going. The 'chorus' I guess. [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthaholic Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 The first song that popped into my head. [video:youtube] Quote The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
counterpoint Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Bacharach is a great example of smart pop. Say a Little Prayer is very nicely written, with a sensitive lyric and melody immaculately performed by Aretha, thoughtful harmonization and changing meters to accommodate the way the lyric and melody naturally flow. The sound of "complex" well crafted songs (dare we say "jazzy" sounding) simply went out of style in pop. It sounded too much like "dad's" music. Enough time has passed for a resurgence, the question is which pop stars have the guts to do it right now? Bacharach was (is) definitely a leader in the transition from "standards" to "complex pop". There are some alt bands today that play on the edges of more complexity...not necessarily thought of as "pop" in the context of songs like "Never Gonna Let You Go". I like listening to music of "Phoenix", "The 1975", "MGMT", "Tame Impala" and several other bands of that ilk. Many of them add complexity through what I think are sometimes dizzying production techniques that throw so many things at you at once it's almost impossible to keep your focus on any one part...but there are often unusual and interesting chord progressions in their music as well. Another contemporary "complex pop" songwriter I'm a huge fan of is Eg White from the UK. Among many huge hits, he wrote Adele's first hit "Chasing Pavements" which is definitely a complex chord progression by today's standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0Ampy0o Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 "Horse With No Name" - my nominee for Worst Pop Song Everâ¦. Horse shit! Have loved many things about it and a few other America songs, most importantly is how it manages to make me feel happy. The rhythm and vocal harmonies, simple and engaging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I must say JT's piano player looks really nervous and stiff. His bass player booked him that afternoon for the gig, perhaps? Cheers, Mike. Funny, I didn't get that feeling at all about the keyboard player. His name is Cliff Carter, I went to college with him in Miami back in the day. He was James' 2nd keyboard guy behind Don Grolnick, and moved into the piano chair when Don passed. I thought he nailed the part/the sound... I love playing this tune, but I play it looser since I usually do it as a solo piano piece. Great performance! JerryDon't get me wrong, it's superbly played, but imho Carter looked uncomfortable - as if he's sight-reading it for the first time. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 "Horse With No Name" - my nominee for Worst Pop Song Ever.I never liked "Horse with No Name" either. My dislike for loop-based music applies equally here, and I find the lyrics weak: - "plants and birds and rocks and things", to rhyme with "rings"? - "fly with a buzz", "the heat was hot" - "there ain't no one for to give you no pain" - the "for" is a redundant word, added for scansion only It all seems like very lazy songwriting to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I liked "Horse With No Name," yet never liked the kind of similar "Dreams" (Fleetwood Mac). Maybe it's the drums/rhythm making the big difference, since that gives the songs very different feels. It would be interesting to hear each one done with the style/arrangement of the other. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I must say JT's piano player looks really nervous and stiff. His bass player booked him that afternoon for the gig, perhaps? Cheers, Mike. Funny, I didn't get that feeling at all about the keyboard player. His name is Cliff Carter, I went to college with him in Miami back in the day. He was James' 2nd keyboard guy behind Don Grolnick, and moved into the piano chair when Don passed. I thought he nailed the part/the sound... I love playing this tune, but I play it looser since I usually do it as a solo piano piece. Great performance! JerryDon't get me wrong, it's superbly played, but imho Carter looked uncomfortable - as if he's sight-reading it for the first time. Cheers, Mike. I know Cliff too. I would be surprised to hear he was uncomfortable â he's one of NYC's first-tier studio players and a veteran of many big-name tours and recordings. According to one comment, this video comes from a ceremony honoring Paul Simon and the band is Simon's, not JTs. It appears the song is in a different key from where Paul usually sings it. That might account for the chart Cliff is reading? Or maybe he had just started on the gig? Nevertheless, put a chart of a killer song originally played beautifully by Richard Tee in front of me at a ceremony being recorded for posterity and I'm gonna be a little nervous! I think Cliff does a great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadroj Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 The song itself was okay, but I could listen to that dude tell band stories for hours. Quote Hammond SKX Mainstage 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 It appears the song is in a different key from where Paul usually sings it. That might account for the chart Cliff is reading? That would explain a lot. There's the famous story of Art Garfunkel, on tour, telling his piano player (Knechtel? I can't remember) that his voice is a little tight, and he's doing to do Bridge Over Troubled Water in D, not Eb. Aaaand... GO! Cheers ,Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamanczarek Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I agree on "Bohemian Rhapsody" being the most complex pop song of all time. What's funny is at the 1977 Grammys "Afternoon Delight" beat it for Best Arrangement for Voices. Quote C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzpiano88 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I must say JT's piano player looks really nervous and stiff. His bass player booked him that afternoon for the gig, perhaps? Cheers, Mike. Funny, I didn't get that feeling at all about the keyboard player. His name is Cliff Carter, I went to college with him in Miami back in the day. He was James' 2nd keyboard guy behind Don Grolnick, and moved into the piano chair when Don passed. I thought he nailed the part/the sound... I love playing this tune, but I play it looser since I usually do it as a solo piano piece. Great performance! JerryDon't get me wrong, it's superbly played, but imho Carter looked uncomfortable - as if he's sight-reading it for the first time. Cheers, Mike. I know Cliff too. I would be surprised to hear he was uncomfortable â he's one of NYC's first-tier studio players and a veteran of many big-name tours and recordings. According to one comment, this video comes from a ceremony honoring Paul Simon and the band is Simon's, not JTs. It appears the song is in a different key from where Paul usually sings it. That might account for the chart Cliff is reading? Or maybe he had just started on the gig? Nevertheless, put a chart of a killer song originally played beautifully by Richard Tee in front of me at a ceremony being recorded for posterity and I'm gonna be a little nervous! I think Cliff does a great job. The screwup is between 1:05 and 1:15 where there's a hiccup in the rhythm from the editing. They were able get the Video to reasonably match the audio edit. Somewhere I read James put extra emphasis at the end to express his displeasure. Quote J a z z P i a n o 8 8 -- Yamaha C7D Montage M8x | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp-the-nerd Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 It's funny, when I hear pop, I think of the current dumpster fire era we live in. Only after I read a few of the excellent responses in this thread did I remember that good music used to chart and be "popular." Chicago Earth Wind & Fire Steely Dan Queen Yes The Eagles MJ Fun thread. Quote Keyboards: Nord Electro 6D 73, Korg SV-1 88, Minilogue XD, Yamaha YPG-625 Bonus: Boss RC-3 Loopstation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dongna Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I assume we're excluding that new John Mayer song that was posted here recently? Shout out to Synthaholic... when I first saw his nomination (Scritti Politti Perfect Way for those who missed it), from memory I scoffed and dismissed it as 80's fluff. Then I went and listened to it again in the context of this thread, and darned if it isn't a lot more complex than I remember. Beatles Here Comes the Sun There's gotta be some Rush tunes that qualify, but I'm not enough of a Rush-head to be able to name any specific tune(s) off the top of my head. Beato himself had an earlier video (if I recall from memory) where he went in depth into the complex (or at least unusual) chord progression in Sting's Fortress Around Your Heart. Steely Dan has been mentioned multiple times-- pretty much their whole discography is a gold mine for this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Anything by Zappa Ahh wait, that's more anti-pop Quote Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderSchoot Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Anything by Zappa Ahh wait, that's more anti-pop Hahaha 15/16 beats because we CAN !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderSchoot Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Try to cover this without using certain forbidden substances. [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I like this version. Someone should transcribe the vocal: [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 I agree on "Bohemian Rhapsody" being the most complex pop song of all time. What's funny is at the 1977 Grammys "Afternoon Delight" beat it for Best Arrangement for Voices. Back then, a brown paper bag full of cash and drugs to the right person made some decisions easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0Ampy0o Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 I agree on "Bohemian Rhapsody" being the most complex pop song of all time. What's funny is at the 1977 Grammys "Afternoon Delight" beat it for Best Arrangement for Voices. Back then, a brown paper bag full of cash and drugs to the right person made some decisions easy.Did BR get early radio play? I first heard it on Don Kirshner"s Rock Concert and it was played there frequently. I did not look at Queen as a strong band until other material was getting airplay.. Once that had caught my attention and perhaps other"s BR got some exposure aside from weekly replay of the video on DKRC. Their strength leaked out from behind the Glam Rock image. There wws a B side to a hit at a jukebox 'Whiteman' in which they shined. This strength came together for that Live Aid performance. They were the fist band to actually perform live on stage after at least one, Billy Ocean, had lip-synched and it just set the stage. I hear of mistakes replicated for the movie but they were so good it didn"t matter. (All my opinion and sorry to take this off the topic.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piano39 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Bohemian Rhapsodywas the first thought that came to my mind. Something like Bat Out Of Hell, or Diamonds and Pearls, share that "kind" of complexity. Donald Fagen's Maxine is complex in a different way. I had to laugh at 4:01 "this would be, uh, a Am7b6, or Fsus2 over A". I would write "Fmu" and move on - but I am surprised at how many of my (top-flight) muso buddies haven't come across mu major chords. Cheers, Mike I don't know whether or not I am "top flight" muso, but this is the first reference that I ever saw to mu chords. I just researched it (thanks wikipedia). I like it. Quote Yamaha Motif XF6, Yamaha AN200, Logic Pro X, Arturia Microbrute, Behringer Model D, Yamaha UX-3 Acoustic Piano, assorted homemade synth modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Did BR get early radio play? Yeah... since charts correspond largely to radio play (or at least they used to), we can see that from wikipedia's listing of how it charted. In 1975, it hit the #1 spot it in the UK. In 1976, it got as high as #6 or #9 in the U.S. depending on whose chart you follow (though it didn't get as high as #1 or #2 until its Wayne's World inspired second wind in 1992). Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
o0Ampy0o Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Did BR get early radio play? Yeah... since charts correspond largely to radio play (or at least they used to), we can see that from wikipedia's listing of how it charted. In 1975, it hit the #1 spot it in the UK. In 1976, it got as high as #6 or #9 in the U.S. depending on whose chart you follow (though it didn't get as high as #1 or #2 until its Wayne's World inspired second wind in 1992).May be the area I was in at the time and general activity of ducks just not lining up. I don"t remember that one being played much on the radio while it was almost guaranteed that the video would be aired on DKRC. I suspect the pre-Perry Journey received more radio play than elsewhere. I was living in the South SF Bay area and there was a big difference between what the two strong SB Rock stations played and what was being broadcast out of SF. Some shared but in those days at different points in time the SB stations might have been as significant as SF stations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzpiano88 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Complex country Song -- Truck Driver Divorce: [video:youtube] Quote J a z z P i a n o 8 8 -- Yamaha C7D Montage M8x | CP300 | CP4 | SK1-73 | OB6 | Seven K8.2 | 3300 | CPSv.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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