Stand to create B3 feel from DP and Clone

[MathOfInsects]

a better X-stand with a telescoping second level

How close does this come?

 

 

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

It's another "good in concept" stand, but useless in execution because those top tiers are not adjustable in depth; they sit where they sit, and you either have to move your bottom board forward and destabilize the stand, or just commit to having one hang over the other, which means putting them too far apart.

 

The ability to position the top tier at will seems like such an obvious requirement for a stand, and yet...

 

Also, I like X-Stands for their portability, but I don't like the X being at my knees. Someday if I get ambitious I will invent an H stand.

[AnotherScott]

It's another "good in concept" stand, but useless in execution because those top tiers are not adjustable in depth; they sit where they sit, and you either have to move your bottom board forward and destabilize the stand, or just commit to having one hang over the other, which means putting them too far apart.

Yeah, that's why I said it could only work (for me) if you could attach those top pieces backwards (rear facing). Actual adjustability would be nice, but I think having a forward and reverse option would cover most people's needs.

 

Someday if I get ambitious I will invent an H stand.

I think that's essentially what the "scissor" stands are (the Knox and the K&M 18880). And the old Invisibles. Yes? They expand to their width being linked horizontally in the middle. I guess Z-stands, too. Z from the side, H from the front. ;-)

[drawback]

 

I'm not ready to commit to a setup where top board rests on bottom one.

 

Why not? The top board is basically a tier anyway.

[MathOfInsects]

Yeah, that's why I said it could only work (for me) if you could attach those top pieces backwards (rear facing). Actual adjustability would be nice, but I think having a forward and reverse option would cover most people's needs.

 

I'm not so sure. The two choices are to completely cover the bottom board, or to completely clear it. That seems arbitrarily restrictive. Surely we keyboard players, a famously fussy bunch, aren't suddenly going to say, "Eh, wherever it is is fine, I don't care." (This thread is an example of that.)

 

Someday if I get ambitious I will invent an H stand.

I think that's essentially what the "scissor" stands are (the Knox and the K&M 18880). And the old Invisibles. Yes? They expand to their width being linked horizontally in the middle. I guess Z-stands, too. Z from the side, H from the front. ;-)

 

Well, sorta. Without vibing on anyone's preference, I find those accordion stands unattractive. They are obviously superior as a design, for portability and versatility. They just don't check the right boxes for me appearance-wise. So I guess that's another criterion I should add to my requirements. And the Invisibles...don't get me started. Opposite issue. Fantastic-looking stands. Complete prima-donna jerks to set-up and tear down.

 

Z's are the entire reason for any depreciation in the value of my car. Plus they are too deep for any keyboard on the market, by probably 6 inches. Again, this is all they have to do at the factory all day. Didn't anyone think to look up how deep literally every keyboard ever, is?

 

I have in mind an X-Stand-like model that connects across instead of on the diagonal. I've designed in my head for years. One day if I get ambitious I'll figure out how to make it happen.

[stoken6]

Wow, this thread's got some legs (appropriate for a thread about keeping things off the floor)/

 

It's another "good in concept" stand, but useless in execution because those top tiers are not adjustable in depth; they sit where they sit, and you either have to move your bottom board forward and destabilize the stand, or just commit to having one hang over the other, which means putting them too far apart.

Personally I would remove the "horizontal" tiers and just leave the uprights. But then I've been able to

commit to a setup where top board rests on bottom one.

 

Also, I like X-Stands for their portability, but I don't like the X being at my knees.

See, I find X's have a portability problem. In order to get the height, the diagonal brace is longer than it would be on a Z, accordion or table-style stand. Most X stands are pretty well one meter/40 inches long, and can't "quite" get into the boot (trunk) of my car and lie neatly on the floor. (I found a budget one that was about 8cm/3in shorter - cheap single-brace thing that I take to rehearsals).

 

Z's are the entire reason for any depreciation in the value of my car.

I came close to buying that alumin(i)um Z that Quiklok produced a few years ago. The problem with a Z is that it looks great, it's ergonomic and practical - until you add a second tier. At which point it doesn't collapse flat and is a pain to load alongside other gear.

 

they are too deep for any keyboard on the market, by probably 6 inches. Again, this is all they have to do at the factory all day. Didn't anyone think to look up how deep literally every keyboard ever, is?

Quite. Same with many keyboard bags/cases - why so deep? Even Yamahas aren't that deep.

 

The K&M comes close.

As did I - to buying one some years ago. Went with an Apex instead, which I quite like, despite the well-known flaws. The other thing that's cool about the K&M 18880 is the use of rectangular tubing, which makes modding very easy.

 

I'm about to order something to help mod my round-tubed stand - I will report back when I have some news.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

And the Invisibles...don't get me started. Opposite issue. Fantastic-looking stands. Complete prima-donna jerks to set-up and tear down.

The original Invisbles were a nuisance in that they knocked down to 4 separate pieces, but it took well under a minute to either assemble them or break them down. The later Invisible moved in one piece, and took literally 5 seconds to setup or breakdown. It was better in some ways, not as good in others (less rugged, and the minimum spacing between the tiers was slightly larger, IIRC).

[16251]

And the Invisibles...don't get me started. Opposite issue. Fantastic-looking stands. Complete prima-donna jerks to set-up and tear down.

The original Invisbles were a nuisance in that they knocked down to 4 separate pieces, but it took well under a minute to either assemble them or break them down. The later Invisible moved in one piece, and took literally 5 seconds to setup or breakdown. It was better in some ways, not as good in others (less rugged, and the minimum spacing between the tiers was slightly larger, IIRC).

 

Man, I hated having to stuff Invisible Stands in nylon bag...Replacing tightening bolt...and wait for it - having to reach for settings on top board. I also had shelf for MKS-20. Still, it served me well for many years.

[MathOfInsects]

And the Invisibles...don't get me started. Opposite issue. Fantastic-looking stands. Complete prima-donna jerks to set-up and tear down.

The original Invisbles were a nuisance in that they knocked down to 4 separate pieces, but it took well under a minute to either assemble them or break them down. The later Invisible moved in one piece, and took literally 5 seconds to setup or breakdown. It was better in some ways, not as good in others (less rugged, and the minimum spacing between the tiers was slightly larger, IIRC).

That "minute" was a vibe-killer. I must have bailed before the one-piece version came out, but even then...the two options for the tiers were completely cover the bottom board, or don't cover it at all. And that procedure for inserting and removing tiers....finger-eater. And those little rubber traction-noodles would always disappear. And it took too much stage-depth. I hated that beautiful-looking stand.

[lsj]

for me the best stands out there are Standtastic stands. I have two of them. a double and a triple. totally adjustable in all directions and totally solid. once you get use to it, set up and tear down is not bad at all. I would never own a stand like the apex that bounces when playing. I can't even stand to watch someone on youtube playing a keyboard that is bouncing.

[16251]

for me the best stands out there are Standtastic stands. I have two of them. a double and a triple. totally adjustable in all directions and totally solid. once you get use to it, set up and tear down is not bad at all. I would never own a stand like the apex that bounces when playing. I can't even stand to watch someone on youtube playing a keyboard that is bouncing.

 

This stand could be the one. So far I can't find any pics of them displaying two boards with top sitting as close as possible.

[AnotherScott]

if you end up wanting a Standtastic, I have a 2-tier still in its factory box. One of many things I've been meaning to list in the garage sale.

[16251]

if you end up wanting a Standtastic, I have a 2-tier still in its factory box. One of many things I've been meaning to list in the garage sale.

 

Q's - Is it the shorter one? Have you ever used it for B3 feel application?

 

I'm not a perfectionist as far as placement but it should be close enough for jazz.

[AnotherScott]

122 KS. The short one. Never used it, it's still in its original box. I realized it's not what I wanted. I used a 3-tier and found it clumsy and finicky. Standtastics are polarizing. People really love them, or they really... don't. I guess like the Invisibles. ;-)

[drawback]

Funny how many equate an X stand to an ironing board â Standtastics remind me of laundry drying racks

[16251]

Funny how many equate an X stand to an ironing board â Standtastics remind me of laundry drying racks

 

The people inventing these stands are X dry cleaning sales ppl.

 

 

Considering all the type of stands, how they look, sturdy, functionality, and price. I could live with the Stantastic stand. It's a compromise but without any extra drilling, etc. it looks like it will work.

 

Positive thread. I appreciate all the great ideas.

[Marzzz]

I can literally lower the Mini right down on top of the VAX if I wanted.

Hmmm... It doesn't look like you can rest the Mini right on top of the Vax, because I see support arms under the front of the Mini. Anything with front-facing supports under the top board is problematic

Well, not literally I suppose, but there is one more lower "slot" to get it even closer, and even with the minimal height of the VAX I can get the supports to touch the upper surface.

 

But if you want literally, this is about as close as you can get:

 

 

Inspired by The Famous Real MC setup, courtesy of Kurzweil. But with regard to the OP, I think if you really wanted a dual manual organ setup, you would need to go with a dual manual organ. Or, you could put a CS-80 on top of a CP-70:

 

[Gary75]

I used to use an X stand, and fitted the second tier bars the opposite way around so the top keyboard key fronts was in line with the back of the keys on lower keyboard.

[Spider76]

I came close to buying that alumin(i)um Z that Quiklok produced a few years ago. The problem with a Z is that it looks great, it's ergonomic and practical - until you add a second tier. At which point it doesn't collapse flat and is a pain to load alongside other gear.

 

If you're talking about the Z71 Alu, I had it and I found it great, and the Z2 Alu second tier folds flat like the rest of the stand. Still it's quite bulky (not heavy though, about 8 kgs) and not completely stable like a table stand: due to the Z shape there will always be some slight rocking back and forth, especially if you play standing and raise it to a tall position.

 

All in all it's a great stand but with some drawbacks that ultimately made me sell it, especially as I was not using two-keyboards setups anymore.

Pros: light, portable, folds flat even with the 2nd tier, instant setup-teardown, instant height adjustment, it can be raised REALLY high (the tallest among stands I've seen).

Cons: quite bulky (though flat), limited adjustment possibilities, fixed width/depth of both tiers, not 100% stable like table stands (Omega or 18950 are my golden standard).

[stoken6]

I came close to buying that alumin(i)um Z that Quiklok produced a few years ago. The problem with a Z is that it looks great, it's ergonomic and practical - until you add a second tier. At which point it doesn't collapse flat and is a pain to load alongside other gear.

 

If you're talking about the Z71 Alu

That's the puppy. Looking back, I think a 18880 would be a better choice. If gigs pick up big-time I might treat myself - otherwise I'll stick with my lookie-likey Stagg as a cheap (though heavier) alternative.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[stillearning]

I used to use a Quik Lok Monolith and with the second tier, could get the boards pretty close. The second tier is adjustable up/down, front/back, and tilt angle. The photo is taken in a storage area since I no longer use it. The second tier can slide forward quite a bit more than shown, I had it back a bit to access the controls on the bottom board.

[16251]

I used to use a Quik Lok Monolith and with the second tier, could get the boards pretty close. The second tier is adjustable up/down, front/back, and tilt angle. The photo is taken in a storage area since I no longer use it. The second tier can slide forward quite a bit more than shown, I had it back a bit to access the controls on the bottom board.

 

Another good option. Thanks.

[MathOfInsects]

See, I find X's have a portability problem. In order to get the height, the diagonal brace is longer than it would be on a Z, accordion or table-style stand. Most X stands are pretty well one meter/40 inches long, and can't "quite" get into the boot (trunk) of my car and lie neatly on the floor. (I found a budget one that was about 8cm/3in shorter - cheap single-brace thing that I take to rehearsals).

 

Interesting. I was going to say that the last time I had a car with a trunk (boot) was _____, but then I realized, for the first time, that I have never owned one. I've only ever owned hatches or small trucks or truck-like cars. So for me, portability means: easily handled, light, goes in and out of the car easily (and without catching on everything or destroying the car itself), can be carried with one hand from almost any part of it or added to a cart-load without needing its own real estate, and (accordingly) folds flat or otherwise compact.

 

By far the easiest-to-carry/cart one-board stand for me is the X. There's nothing easier to grab'n'go than this poor KC reject. The easiest-to-carry/cart two-board stand is the Stay column. But they both have shortcomings as stands.

 

The Z is a pretty good middle ground, but again...poorly proportioned and a a complete jerk to the interior of cars and shins. After all this time, no one thought to make a cap for those exposed hinges/corners?

[stoken6]

Interesting. I was going to say that the last time I had a car with a trunk (boot) was _____, but then I realized, for the first time, that I have never owned one. I've only ever owned hatches or small trucks or truck-like cars.

We're back to that thread about European vs American cars! The last three cars I have owned are: a saloon (sedan), a small hatch, a station wagin, and another hatch. Regardless of the shape of the hole in the car, I find that there's typically less than 1m/40in between the wheel arches. And most X's are exactly that long (plus a bit for the horizontal arms, and the rubber bungs on the end). I agree there's nothing easier for "pick-up-and-go" with an X, particularly those that don't a sprung locking-pin mechanism.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Losendoskeys]

I've used two Quiklok 726 for some time per the attached pic showing the Kronos 61 over the Hammond SK2.using the M2 second tier:

You could get it closer but then you wouldn't be able to read the display on the Hammond.

:

© GDCorporate.Photography -19 by Alan Pearson, on Flickr

 

 

You have a second option with the Q726 as you can add a second tier with the accessory crossbar and QLX3 as on my second stand pic below:

 

Mellotron4000D by Alan Pearson, on Flickr

[16251]

I'm probably putting to much thought into this but what about this? Building a wooden case for ES110 with a flat top for Mojo 61. Then I could just use a keyboard table or similar stand and avoid tiers that are too far apart.

 

I've seen pics of DIY wood case for Mojo61 with four post legs. It probably could be done using quarter inch wood and it shouldn't be completely enclosed. It only has to support 24 pounds.

 

My wood making skills suck, but I'm calling friends who might know someone.

[MathOfInsects]

Interesting. I was going to say that the last time I had a car with a trunk (boot) was _____, but then I realized, for the first time, that I have never owned one. I've only ever owned hatches or small trucks or truck-like cars.

We're back to that thread about European vs American cars! The last three cars I have owned are: a saloon (sedan), a small hatch, a station wagin, and another hatch. Regardless of the shape of the hole in the car, I find that there's typically less than 1m/40in between the wheel arches. And most X's are exactly that long (plus a bit for the horizontal arms, and the rubber bungs on the end). I agree there's nothing easier for "pick-up-and-go" with an X, particularly those that don't a sprung locking-pin mechanism.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Ah, but....with a hatch/SUV/wagon, the equipment goes in the "long" way, not the wide way. Only in cars with boots would it go in sideways. Which is how I realized I'd never had a thought about the vertical measurement of any equipment; it all just goes straight in, parallel with the sides of the car.

 

All moot, since the X doesn't satisfy the OP's needs, but if it weren't for OT, we wouldn't have no T at all.

[MathOfInsects]

I'm probably putting to much thought into this but what about this? Building a wooden case for ES110 with a flat top for Mojo 61. Then I could just use a keyboard table or similar stand and avoid tiers that are too far apart.

 

I've seen pics of DIY wood case for Mojo61 with four post legs. It probably could be done using quarter inch wood and it shouldn't be completely enclosed. It only has to support 24 pounds.

 

My wood making skills suck, but I'm calling friends who might know someone.

You could do this (so long as all the corners and edges were rounded, otherwise more depreciation for your car and fingers), BUT....a fixed-size wooden case is a beast to transport, IMO. I suppose you could consider it all just the ES110, in which case yes, a coffin with a piano-hinge that allowed the top to fold flat when open (or to be removed completely) would certainly provide a flat surface for the Mojo. But at that point, why own a light and portable DP in the first place? It would significantly add to the cartage hassles of an otherwise easily transported board. If the pay-off is worth it, a nice DIY wood case could make for cool stage optics. But for frequent gigging I personally would find this too much "cost" for too little benefit. Entirely a YMMV thing of course.

[16251]

I'm probably putting to much thought into this but what about this? Building a wooden case for ES110 with a flat top for Mojo 61. Then I could just use a keyboard table or similar stand and avoid tiers that are too far apart.

 

I've seen pics of DIY wood case for Mojo61 with four post legs. It probably could be done using quarter inch wood and it shouldn't be completely enclosed. It only has to support 24 pounds.

 

My wood making skills suck, but I'm calling friends who might know someone.

You could do this (so long as all the corners and edges were rounded, otherwise more depreciation for your car and fingers), BUT....a fixed-size wooden case is a beast to transport, IMO. I suppose you could consider it all just the ES110, in which case yes, a coffin with a piano-hinge that allowed the top to fold flat when open (or to be removed completely) would certainly provide a flat surface for the Mojo. But at that point, why own a light and portable DP in the first place? It would significantly add to the cartage hassles of an otherwise easily transported board. If the pay-off is worth it, a nice DIY wood case could make for cool stage optics. But for frequent gigging I personally would find this too much "cost" for too little benefit. Entirely a YMMV thing of course.

 

I'm not thinking it has to resemble an organ, etc. I'm thinking solid sides, open in front and back. Top and bottom would only need to be slats (like bed frame.) I'm just thinking live here; open for suggestions.

[AnotherScott]

Custom 2-tier boxes for any combination you want... https://marsbuilt.com/creations/custom-dual-manual-keyboard-console/

 

Exactly what you describe... solid sides, open in front and back. Top and bottom only need to be slats.

 

 

[16251]

Custom 2-tier boxes for any combination you want... https://marsbuilt.com/creations/custom-dual-manual-keyboard-console/

 

Exactly what you describe... solid sides, open in front and back. Top and bottom only need to be slats.

 

 

 

Wow! thanks

 

edit: saw the price