miden Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Ummm, if I need controller input into the iphone/ipad I will use the dongle with the usb and power....If I am just going to be doing backing tracks with the keyboard that has the sound engine I'll use the one with the audio out (although only with the ph as iPad has an audio out jack). I usually have it set (buffer) on all my gear to 256, but if I want to play just piano, it works fine on 128 or about 5ms latency or 2-3ms of latency respectively , which for me, real-world, is totally un-noticable. Polyphony wise, I haven't run out of notes yet?? That's about all I can say - although this one is very "user-dependent!" I also use Camelot Pro and AUM Mixer (which are essentially hosting apps with benefits, MANY benefits hahaha!) and on most of my setups I am running at least three plugs and sometimes four and I have had NO issues. Apart from Camelot itself being a bit glitchy in the early days. Oh and afaik, Camelot is not yet available in a multi-device version (ie iPad only) Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Good to know, thanks. To be clear, you're saying 128 sample buffer with no issues running Ravenscroft on your iPhone 8, correct? Not the iPad? Looks like you have both, like me. Are you using AUM and more instruments simultaneously on the phone, or only the iPad? (I think I'm done with questions.... for now anyway! ) I have a bit of good news - I connected my iPhone SE2020 to my computer with a cable, turned off bluetooth and enabled "Inter-device Audio and Midi Mode." Now I'm happily playing Pure Piano on the phone with none of the jittery note timings I noticed earlier using a bluetooth connection. There is still latency, and my previous description of PP's shortcomings remain, but the app is definitely playable now. I did order the dongle so will report back when that arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 I only use one instrument at a time. And I just played a bunch of Korg Module Scarbee Rhodes (64 latency setting, Airplane Mode) and then I played VB3m organ. They modeled Jimmy Smith VB3m organ had a funner and snappier response, it won. Scarbee samples for Korg Module sound great but it just isn"t very snappy on an iPhone 6 nor my iPad Pro for that matter, but it"s tolerable because the clean tone is so accurate... I think. Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 ....... have heard reports that Ravenscroft suffers substantially form latency on IOS phones..... I have no issues on iPhone 8 How are running audio out on an iPhone 8? Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 12, 2021 Author Share Posted May 12, 2021 Interesting - just fired up VTines and set it to midi channel 2 so I could switch between Pure Piano and VTines by changing transmit channels on my controller.... looks like Pure Piano is omni-only, it's always sounding! I guess that means AUM or an iOS midi router app might be a requirement, if you plan to use PP with other instruments and want to switch between them without touching the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 ....... have heard reports that Ravenscroft suffers substantially form latency on IOS phones..... I have no issues on iPhone 8 How are running audio out on an iPhone 8? https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/MMX62FE/A/lightning-to-35mm-headphone-jack-adapter?fnode=13d2014a8bda5e572e8f57d8458654da5b904d33003b05527b8f8e6004973b0e42f8b5564a49dd671d0e24b2260df1df68704412b2fce67580e73497366fee4a97bb5aab1d7a5de65fa0a8d8a5cd25c45ae6cef7f76800dd71d16e0cc338ef02ac641f2bf102924dfdd1bab33c78c6ea Or if I want to run power as well https://www.apple.com/au/shop/product/HLJV2ZM/A/belkin-35-mm-audio-charge-rockstar?fnode=27b7f1f5891dffa953164473aa6a162c8dfc202d830e1753e288b43f3761897726b74397ec005b7ee068f268b64527abb12a940b39888264e2c0bfbe6f7b864ed1b74607745ac56e0724861b31fbe1fd6bc3752c1ab9f37d1bc0dd5456920bf872c9fbf3355edb15d19f88904152bfcf When I want to control a plug on the phone I use bluetooth, is in MIdi over bluetooth, not audio. Audio and bluetooth and playing a plug do not work very well! Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 As promised, my "report." tl;dr - nope! It's actually a little more nuanced than "nope.' The dongle worked, and with my Roland A800 hooked up directly to my phone, the latency was significantly reduced (compared to how I was connecting the keyboard before). In terms of latency only, Pure Piano felt as good to play as any software piano I've ever played on my MacBook Pro. Entirely gigable. The deal-killer was that the audio output from the headphone jack was a small fraction of what I get from the regular Apple lightning-to-headphone adapter. In a typical burst of nerdiness I used a signal generator iPhone app to produce a sine wave tone and recorded it to my DAW using both dongles, with volumes set identically. I had to boost the no-name dongle"s audio track 16db to make the level meters match. What else? Well, I"d be playing Pure Piano and every few minutes the audio would drop out for about a second. Of course, this may or may not be the dongle, but it never happened when playing PP via bluetooth. I also tried VTines and didn"t experience any dropouts. I can"t draw any definite conclusions from these clues, but obviously I"m not doing a gig with this piece when stuff like this is happening. What else #2? The lightning plug itself is much bigger than the one on the Apple adapter. I had to take the case off my phone in order to press it in completely. It 'kinda' works with the case on, but doesn"t feel too secure. Maybe I"m being too charitable, but I was willing to risk that I got a dud and get a new one to try. Amazon didn"t give me that option however, and I saw no way to directly contact the seller. I will give kudos to Amazon though, because they"re letting me return it at the Whole Foods I shop at 3x/week⦠just bring it in and show them the QR code they emailed me. They pack & ship it back, and my CC is refunded. After a little more investigating I"m unable to find any product that gives me both a USB 2 port and a 3.5 mm audio jack except for another one of these Chinese no-name guys. Belkin might make one that uses USB-C, so if I got a cable or adapter that lets me hook up my Roland board I might have a shot there. I"d still have to make sure I set off for a gig with the phone fully charged, and remember to hook it up to a charger between sets â or maybe I"m underestimating what my phone"s battery can handle? The saga continues⦠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Reezekeys, I"m sorry it lowers the audio 12db. I"m glad you can return it. I think the iPad is the only option since iPhones above versions 6 lost headphone jacks. Quote Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 I never had a problem. Then again, I'm not using the headphone jack for audio output. USB to audio interface, sounds better to my ears. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 Reezekeys, I"m sorry it lowers the audio 12db. I"m glad you can return it. I think the iPad is the only option since iPhones above versions 6 lost headphone jacks. Yes, it's surprising that there's nothing from a "reputable" manufacturer that addresses this. The no-name Chinese market, however, has all kinds of lightning adapters. I have one other option other than my iPad which I might explore - my old iPhone SE (original), sitting in a drawer. The processor in it is the A9, one generation newer than what's in my iPad Air 2, so maybe I can use it. It has a headphone jack! My Air 2 can play Pure Piano at a low buffer setting so maybe my old SE will work. I never had a problem. Then again, I'm not using the headphone jack for audio output. USB to audio interface, sounds better to my ears. So how do you play the app on the phone or iPad, if the USB is going to the audio interface and not a keyboard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philtre71 Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Reezekeys, I"m sorry it lowers the audio 12db. I"m glad you can return it. I think the iPad is the only option since iPhones above versions 6 lost headphone jacks. Yes, it's surprising that there's nothing from a "reputable" manufacturer that addresses this. The no-name Chinese market, however, has all kinds of lightning adapters. I have one other option other than my iPad which I might explore - my old iPhone SE (original), sitting in a drawer. The processor in it is the A9, one generation newer than what's in my iPad Air 2, so maybe I can use it. It has a headphone jack! My Air 2 can play Pure Piano at a low buffer setting so maybe my old SE will work. I never had a problem. Then again, I'm not using the headphone jack for audio output. USB to audio interface, sounds better to my ears. So how do you play the app on the phone or iPad, if the USB is going to the audio interface and not a keyboard? I assume he's using a hub - with the keyboard and the interface plugged in, and the hub connected to the ipad via (maybe) the Apple camera connector kit? My current setup has SL73 and A800 boards connected to a usb hub, which runs into the camera connector. I'm just taking the headphone output from the ipad at the moment, but based on what I've seen on youtube the ipad will output to your audio interface via the hub, and you can take the audio from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 Interesting, I didn"t think of that. Do either or both of your keyboards get power through the hub? Is the hub itself powered? I was assuming I"d need to power my A800 through its wall wart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philtre71 Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 I have a powered USB hub which powers the A800 and the SL73. I also run power to the Apple camera connector kit which keeps the ipad charged. So the whole thing is A800, SL73, 4-port USB hub (powered), ipad, apple connector kit, sustain pedal, spyder pro stand. Very efficient! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 Rob, if you use the official CCK, and plug the (Apple lightning) charging cable into it, there might be enough power on the USB port to power your A800. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 I have a powered USB hub which powers the A800 and the SL73. I also run power to the Apple camera connector kit which keeps the ipad charged. So the whole thing is A800, SL73, 4-port USB hub (powered), ipad, apple connector kit, sustain pedal, spyder pro stand. Very efficient! Wait... the iPad gets power from your powered hub through the CCK? I have never heard this mentioned anywhere. This is the CCK which is only a USB jack, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 OK, I see a second "Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter" with a lightning jack for power. Sometimes it takes me a minute! philtre71, you have two power sources then, right? one for the hub - and another going to the USB3 CCK's lightning jack? The CCK does not get power through its USB jack then, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 Rob, if you use the official CCK, and plug the (Apple lightning) charging cable into it, there might be enough power on the USB port to power your A800. I tried that with the shit dongle I'm returning. It actually worked for a short while... then the A800 power cycled a few times! I even used the iPad charging cube to supply power to the dongle, I believe it's 11 watts vs 5 watts for the iPhone cube charger. So, not happening â at least with this dongle. I did assume I would need the wall wart for the A800, so not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 FWIW, I run my system through a 4 port unpowered hub (it can be powered if I want) this goes into the USB port of the combined power and usb dongle that goes into iPad...I use the hub for the extra usb port for the Expression/sustain pedal adapter for the PX-5S to get into the iPad. Controller keyboard goes into the other. Always be mindful though that everything connected to the iPad/ph gets it power from the battery NOT the power supply. It's a fine distinction yes, but when you have a few peripherals connected your battery % actually starts to go down - albeit VERY slowly in my case I still get about 6-7 hours out of it/ This is even with power adaptor connected and even with the USB hub powered. I was told this by an Apple tech because after I started connecting two keyboards to the hub, battery was going down and I thought it was faulty, so I asked There are other solutions of course, but they will cost substantially more than just a dongle.Pretty much any decent lightning audio/midi interface will do the job, and neater as well, BUT $$s Dennis Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I run separate power to my iPad instead of using my powered hub, using no-name adapter. My experience is that you need a beefy power supply when the iPad is cranking at full CPU, many power supplies can't keep up, and you don't want to watch your iPad battery indicator slowly declining during a gig. USB on iPad receives midi, transmits audio over USB to small 2x2 audio interface. Right now, I'm figuring out final rig packaging, and may try a sturdy mic pole as there are plenty of vertical mounts for both iPads and the Zoom portable audio interface. I'm not sure the same pole can be used as a practical mic stand, but we'll see. Once I get my rig sorted out, I have no concerns paying for Apple's branded product, a more form-factor friendly USB interface, purpose-built cabling, etc. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 Thanks guys. I'm still sorting things out but this is all good info. I just ordered the Apple USB3 CCK. I also started up my old iPhone SE (original) and loaded Pure Piano on it. And I remembered that my MOTU MicroBook IIc works with iOS devices, so it might be fun to hook that up. That might be overkill though; the whole point of this, for me, is to show up with as minimalistic a rig as possible. My old SE has a headphone jack which should work fine for driving my QSCs. The CCK will let me hook up my Roland keyboard. I'd like to avoid a nest of hubs and power supplies, that would kinda negate the plus of leaving my laptop home. I'm about to hook up the old phone with the crap dongle right now, to see if it can handle my torrents of notes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 The old iPhone SE is dealing nicely! I'm playing Pure Piano from my Roland, hooked directly to the phone via USB to the dongle I'm about to return. The audio is loud and proud through the phone's regular headphone jack. The buffer is at its minimum (128 samples) and I haven't heard any obvious voice stealing. The only negatives are the weaknesses of Pure Piano, which get more obvious the more I play it. Still, it's a workable setup for doing small gigs where I don't feel like shlepping the laptop, it's SKB case, and my laptop bag full of cables, spare SSD, midi interface, etc. I would probably still be using this original iPhone SE if I didn't get a killer deal to switch cellphone service to Xfinity. I love its tiny size â and now it's a musical instrument! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philtre71 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 OK, I see a second "Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter" with a lightning jack for power. Sometimes it takes me a minute! philtre71, you have two power sources then, right? one for the hub - and another going to the USB3 CCK's lightning jack? The CCK does not get power through its USB jack then, correct? That's correct - I run power into my usb hub and into the CCK. That seems to keep the A800 stable and keeps the ipad fully powered, without needing the wall wart for the A800. It also allows for the possibility of adding an audio interface at some point if required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philtre71 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 This is what I'm currently using. The cables and hub are tucked behind the SL73 - I just pulled them out to show the arrangement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 Thanks for clarifying. Making music with iOS devices is a new world for me. I'm glad there are some with experience on this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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