Compact all-in-one boards, 2021 edition

[Aynsley Green]

Or as someone else mentioned, the MODX6 punches way above its class, has oodles of capability for a cheap price, and having not only an audio interface built-in, but also a freakin' knob to control the incoming volume?!!! Sweet, almost hassle free iPad setup, and the weight is way down there. But, the MODX6 is known to have a poor keybed, you'd need to step up to the MODX7.

 

The action on the Yamaha MODX6 is not great, but it's not bad. I've done piano gigs on it, not impossible. Certainly better than the Roland FA-06, that action was unplayable.

 

The Hammond SKPro looks great (the XK5 engine is scarily close to the real thing), but only has sample-based Polysynths, which seems like a missed opportunity (could they just make the synth engine polyphonic?!)

.

An idea: MODX88 on the bottom for Pianos/Synths/Fancy things, a Hammond SKPro up top for Hammond/Monosynths. All the bases covered, not too heavy or expensive.

[Adan]

It's interesting how playing organ on other than a 61 can be critically disorienting to some people. I've always had that problem and always found it odd that I can't adapt. Playing piano on a 73 or a 64 doesn't pose a similar problem. I do miss those few extra bass notes on a 61, but that's a preference issue, not a neurological one. My brain is able to easily remap the piano to any keyboard. But playing organ on a 73 feels like I've lost my footing and takes away from the spontaneous physicality of it. It seems like going from larger to smaller is psychologically much easier than smaller to larger. YMMV (and probably does).

 

Like someone else posted, I've found playing B3X from the YC61 to be incredibly easy, and it allows me to play my favorite Hammond emulation. For me, everything else is a step down from B3X. The YC allows me to play B3X with minimal setup hassle.

 

Really like what I've heard of the SKPRO. I'd like to play one to see how far they've gone in remedying what bugged me most about the SK series, which was the lack of dynamic control on pianos and epianos.

[ElmerJFudd]

It's interesting how playing organ on other than a 61 can be critically disorienting to some people. I've always had that problem and always found it odd that I can't adapt. Playing piano on a 73 or a 64 doesn't pose a similar problem. I do miss those few extra bass notes on a 61, but that's a preference issue, not a neurological one. My brain is able to easily remap the piano to any keyboard. But playing organ on a 73 feels like I've lost my footing and takes away from the spontaneous physicality of it. It seems like going from larger to smaller is psychologically much easier than smaller to larger. YMMV (and probably does).

 

Like someone else posted, I've found playing B3X from the YC61 to be incredibly easy, and it allows me to play my favorite Hammond emulation. For me, everything else is a step down from B3X. The YC allows me to play B3X with minimal setup hassle.

 

Really like what I've heard of the SKPRO. I'd like to play one to see how far they've gone in remedying what bugged me most about the SK series, which was the lack of dynamic control on pianos and epianos.

 

Do you have anything on the internal organ engine and FX on the YC that gets close enough to B3X to do without?

 

If you do wire up B3X, have you mapped controls for everything off the YC's controllers or are you able to recall presets quickly?

[niacin]

It's interesting how playing organ on other than a 61 can be critically disorienting to some people. I've always had that problem and always found it odd that I can't adapt.

 

I have this problem. What happens is I can't readily identify which octave I'm in and it makes pulling drawbars to get the sound I want totally screwed up.

 

Like Josh the YC61 Leslie in the end did it in for me (it has gone to the good home of a fellow forumite), and I seem to remember Josh also made some less than generous comments about Nords and uninspiring sounds in another thread. My solution: I have an SKpro-61 in transit should arrive early next week. Yay. If I'm not playing much Hammond on a gig the Vox does the single-board job wonderfully. YMMV.

[counterpoint]

Do you have anything on the internal organ engine and FX on the YC that gets close enough to B3X to do without?

 

If you do wire up B3X, have you mapped controls for everything off the YC's controllers or are you able to recall presets quickly?

 

I think the YC B3 emulation is very functional...at least for my basic rock & roll needs...until you ramp up the rotary to fast....that where it falls apart. Agree though the B3X is still superior overall.

 

Re B3X, as the percussion and vibrato/chorus buttons on the YC only send out sysex, you need a VST host to translate to MIDI CC's. I use Cantabile...with that I have the same control over the B3X that I have over the internal YC organ...including using preset changes.

[jeffincltnc]

I had considered a Yamaha YC61 last year, and there's a lot of positives in the board, but I still have a hard time reconciling that in a new product released in 2020 that is an organ centric interface with waterfall keys and drawbars from a major vendor, the users on the forum say "with B3X on an iPad, it sounds really good for organ."

 

I just can't.

[Adan]

It's interesting how playing organ on other than a 61 can be critically disorienting to some people. I've always had that problem and always found it odd that I can't adapt. Playing piano on a 73 or a 64 doesn't pose a similar problem. I do miss those few extra bass notes on a 61, but that's a preference issue, not a neurological one. My brain is able to easily remap the piano to any keyboard. But playing organ on a 73 feels like I've lost my footing and takes away from the spontaneous physicality of it. It seems like going from larger to smaller is psychologically much easier than smaller to larger. YMMV (and probably does).

 

Like someone else posted, I've found playing B3X from the YC61 to be incredibly easy, and it allows me to play my favorite Hammond emulation. For me, everything else is a step down from B3X. The YC allows me to play B3X with minimal setup hassle.

 

Really like what I've heard of the SKPRO. I'd like to play one to see how far they've gone in remedying what bugged me most about the SK series, which was the lack of dynamic control on pianos and epianos.

 

Do you have anything on the internal organ engine and FX on the YC that gets close enough to B3X to do without?

 

If you do wire up B3X, have you mapped controls for everything off the YC's controllers or are you able to recall presets quickly?

 

The YC-B3X direct control works for me because other than drawbars the only on-the-fly changes I make are switching percussion on and off and adjusting distortion, and the YC has enough cc-sending switches and knobs for that. If you want to have full control over B3X you'll run out of cc controls pretty quickly.

 

There's been a lot posted about the YC's obvious glaring weakness which is leslie fast. Putting that aside, I like pretty much everything else about the YC as a clone. So in any situation I'd ask how much do I need the fast leslie. I could do a whole jazz gig never using leslie fast and in fact never changing anything except percussion on/off. Think Larry Young Unity. For a lot of rock and blues applications changing between slow and fast leslie is vitally important.

[counterpoint]

I had considered a Yamaha YC61 last year, and there's a lot of positives in the board, but I still have a hard time reconciling that in a new product released in 2020 that is an organ centric interface with waterfall keys and drawbars from a major vendor, the users on the forum say "with B3X on an iPad, it sounds really good for organ."

 

I just can't.

 

I don't know Jeff. Seems to me the gigging keyboard world has now solidly moved into using a blend of hardware and software. The nice thing about a board like the YC with built-in USB audio is that it makes a great controller for for whichever B3 emulation you prefer. Personally don't get into it that deeply but I'm sure there are some on this forum that would like to use different B3 emulations for different situations. The YC makes that pretty easy...and it will hopefully be even easier if they assign MIDI CC data transmission to all the controls in a future OS update.

 

I've also submitted an "idea" several months ago to allow you to route only the USB audio feed to the YC outputs...that way, for example you could use the underlying YC organ tones (which I really like) but run them through, say, the IK T-RackS Leslie. Right now I can do that with a mixer, but with that adjustment, with just the YC and an iPad or a PC, you would be good to go in any direction or combination you prefer.

 

I've accepted the fact that I'm no longer ever going to be completely happy with any all-in-one keyboard to cover everything the way I want on a stand-alone basis. There are now too many amazing software options out there now,..so, for me a keyboard that has its own solid sounds but can also act as a solid controller for software with built-in USB audio to support it is the number and the YC hit that spot. I am hopeful it will get even better with some OS updates.

[drawback]

I had considered a Yamaha YC61 last year, and there's a lot of positives in the board, but I still have a hard time reconciling that in a new product released in 2020 that is an organ centric interface with waterfall keys and drawbars from a major vendor, the users on the forum say "with B3X on an iPad, it sounds really good for organ."

 

I just can't.

 

+1 and well said.

 

Edit to add that a company such as Yamaha ought to be able to get it 100% right by now (unless my cynic side tells me they choose not to, because then who would buy next year"s model).

[Josh Paxton]

Hmm, I wasn't aware of the YC61's iPad integration. If it really is as simple as running one cable from the board to the iPad to run B3X, that might just be tempting enough. I spent some time with a CP88 in a store, and I liked the APs and EPs quite a bit. I assume they're the same sounds that are in the YC?

[eric]

Can the YC61's Leslie deficiency be resolved with a Vent? I have yet to play a YC. I like Yamaha boards and had been thinking about checking out a CP88 or YC88 to have a newer stage piano option.

 

As far as what I'd recommend based on the original poster's needs, the NS3 Compact is not much larger than some 61 boards and does all the things needed here.

[drawback]

Hmm, I wasn't aware of the YC61's iPad integration. If it really is as simple as running one cable from the board to the iPad to run B3X, that might just be tempting enough. I spent some time with a CP88 in a store, and I liked the APs and EPs quite a bit. I assume they're the same sounds that are in the YC?

 

IIRC there are a couple of pianos in both categories left out of the YC.

 

Can the YC61's Leslie deficiency be resolved with a Vent? I have yet to play a YC. I like Yamaha boards and had been thinking about checking out a CP88 or YC88 to have a newer stage piano option.

 

OP doesn"t want to have to use add-ons.

[MathOfInsects]

As far as what I'd recommend based on the original poster's needs, the NS3 Compact is not much larger than some 61 boards and does all the things needed here.

 

Going slightly farther...my NS3C is gigged in Mono's 61-key keyboard case, which is the same case someone would put any 61-key keyboard in--meaning regardless of the very slight distance in width, the cartage scenario is identical.

[AnotherScott]

It seems like it's either a top notch organ with latest leslie sim, or a top notch poly synth. I guess hammond or mojo sees no value in giving you a great and versatile poly synth. And roland, korg and all the rest see no value in putting a full clonewheel in a lightweight gig ready polysynth.

Hence the Nord Stage 3. Though even then, you can argue about what qualifies as top-notch. Which also leads to a recognition that companies have strengths in different areas. The top-notch clonemakers (say, Viscount, HX3, Crumar, Hammond) are small companies with no particular known deep expertise in synths. The top-notch synth makers (say, Sequential, Moog, Access, Novation) are small companies with no particular known deep expertise in organs. Nord is probably the only company that is highly regarded in both categries, albeit not by everyone. Korg and Roland come close, both have some highly regarded synths, and respectable-if-not-top-tier organs. So I'd say it's not that Hammond and Mojo don't see the value, it just isn't where their talents/technologies lie.

 

The iPad/laptop route is intriguing, but how does one work the drawbars on a little touchscreen without knocking the iPad off the stand?

You either control from a board that has 9 sliders, or you add an external 9-slider (or 9 drawbar) controller unit, there are a number of them. Though then you also want to be using a board that has a convenient place to place that accessory.

 

I recall a recent post where a forumite posted about how well a Vox Konti did as a single board in a gig that covered many bases. (Not sure about portamento, and as you say no modwheel).

I forget about Vox Continental 61 but is the organ/leslie better than the VR09? Very cheap in the UK at the moment. I think you can use the touch strip for mod.

Vox. Gotta love 'em.

Vox comes close to meeting requirements, but I'd say the organ lags behind the VR09 (same issue I have with the suggestions of Kurzweil or MODX). Vox does have some synth patches with portamento, and yes, one of the touchstrips can essentially function much like a mod wheel.

 

An idea: MODX88 on the bottom for Pianos/Synths/Fancy things, a Hammond SKPro up top for Hammond/Monosynths. All the bases covered, not too heavy or expensive.

Doesn't meet the OP's all-in-one requirement.

 

It's interesting how playing organ on other than a 61 can be critically disorienting to some people. I've always had that problem and always found it odd that I can't adapt.

 

I have this problem. What happens is I can't readily identify which octave I'm in and it makes pulling drawbars to get the sound I want totally screwed up.

I feel your pain. I also hate sliding up to a high C and having to worry about an overshoot. I went back and forth between ordering the 73 vs the 61 version of the SK Pro. If it were almost entirely for organ, I'd likewise prefer the 61 "orientation", and the lighter weight helps too. But I think I *might* also sometimes use it as my LH bass board, and if I can't go down to that low E, I'm stuck with an annoyingly small number of keys for my right hand sound. Less likely, but some consideration, is that if I ever might want to use it as a "bottom" (or alone), 61 keys is awfully light for piano parts (and doesn't even cover the full range of a Wurli, a 73 Rhodes, or a clav). But also, getting back to having "a convenient place to put" something, any time it is a top (or only) board, I'll likely need to have an iPad somewhere, even if just for charts/lyrics... the 73 has a place to put it, the 61 doesn't.

 

So here's a thought... how about something that lays over the keys, that both physically and visually blocks off the keys above the highest C? Removable for the occasional gig where it is the board serves also as your piano or splittable source, but left in place for the gigs where it is really functioning as an organ? I bet someone could 3D print something nice that would fit neatly. Obviously it needs to be light enough and/or mounted in such a way that it does not depress the keys, but also (or for extra safety), a board like the SK Pro has zone splits such that you could make all the keys over the C silent anyway.

 

I think the YC B3 emulation is very functional...at least for my basic rock & roll needs...until you ramp up the rotary to fast....that where it falls apart.

Dexibell had this problem, and they fixed it, so maybe that's some cause for hope. It's not the only issue with the YC61 rotary, but I think it's the biggest one. As Woody's nice video showed, there's also some odd resonance sometimes, and very weak rotor such that you can hardly hear the low end motion.

 

(unless my cynic side tells me they choose not to, because then who would buy next year"s model).

I'm not so cynical. ;-) Really, Yamaha doesn't come out with new models every year anyway, this is probably it for a good 3 years or more... and in the mean time, people are free to compare it with--and buy, if they prefer--a Nord or Hammond or whatever else, so there's really no benefit to them in "holding back."

 

Can the YC61's Leslie deficiency be resolved with a Vent?

Yes and no, but more no. If you will use the YC61 as nothing but an organ, that would work fine. But as soon as you want to use it for anything else, things get complicated. For example, you switch from organ to brass... you forget to hit the bypass pedal on the Vent... now your brass is going through a Leslie. (This is especially easy to do in a multi-board rig, where you're not necessarily switching from one YC sound to another, but switching which keyboard you're playing, which means having to be cognizant of what sound you were playing on the YC the last time you played it.) Or what happens if you want to split/layer organ and some other sound? There's no way to put the Vent on your organ sound without putting it on your other sound (since the YC lacks assignable outs, or even a way to run dual-mono via panning). So then you have to have organ patches that use the internal Leslie when doing a split/layer, and other patches with the internal Leslie disabled when you're playing organ by itself and want to use the Vent, and then also have that in mind in keping track of when you want to use the footswitch to enable or disable the Vent... more variables to deal with. So, I wouldn't bother with it, personally. If the YC is otherwise the board for you but you must improve the organ/Leslie, I'd instead look into the B-3X option discussed above (or the new VB3m).

[Josh Paxton]

It's become clear that what I really need to do is get to a place where I can play an SK Pro, a Vox Conti, and a YC61 side by side. Fortunately any well-stocked music store should let me do that, right? [sad, desperate laugh]

[AnotherScott]

It's become clear that what I really need to do is get to a place where I can play an SK Pro, a Vox Conti, and a YC61 side by side.

Yeah, if only! Three nice boards, though. Likely shaking out this way...

 

Organ: Hammond, YC, Vox (though the rotary on the Vox is better than on the YC)

 

Pianos: this is a tough one... if nothing else, action (playability of piano on a non-hammer board) would probably push me toward Vox, YC, Hammond

 

EPs: Vox first, not sure about Hammond vs. YC

 

Clav: not sure about Hammond vs Vox, but YC would be last even if only because it has only 2 clav sounds, not even covering the 4 basic pickup sounds, which the other two do

 

Mono lead-line synth: Hammond (VA, knobby), Vox (VA, fewer controls), YC (FM, few controls)

 

Poly synth (arguably more "different" than better/worse): Vox (poly VA engine, minimal editability), YC (poly FM engine, even less editability), Hammond (sample based, but highly editable)

 

Action overall: Vox, YC, Hammond

[jeffincltnc]

Nautilus in 61 keys might work out here.

[RandyFF]

the MODX6 is known to have a poor keybed, you'd need to step up to the MODX7.

Those two have the same action. I really don't mind it. Not top tier, but not bad either.

I must have been thinking of the FA06.

[stoken6]

Vox comes close to meeting requirements, but I'd say the organ lags behind the VR09

To be fair (and just a little obsessive), Josh wasn't looking for "better-than-VR organ", but "better-than-YC organ" and "better-than-VR09 AP/Rhodes/Wurly/Clav". While neither the VR09 or Vox are top-tier clonewheels, I would rate them both as "adequate". Nord organs are "competent", Hammond is "Excellent", Yamaha scores a "why the stinky Leslie, Yamaha? You were so close otherwise".

 

Cheers, Mike

[AnotherScott]

Vox comes close to meeting requirements, but I'd say the organ lags behind the VR09

To be fair (and just a little obsessive), Josh wasn't looking for "better-than-VR organ", but "better-than-YC organ" and "better-than-VR09 AP/Rhodes/Wurly/Clav".

Thank you, my obsessive cohort, I did indeed mess up that distinction! So that changes one element of the calculus... is the Vox organ better than the YC61? Overall, I'd still say no BUT the Leslie on the Vox is better.

[Josh Paxton]

Three nice boards, though. Likely shaking out this way...

 

That is a useful comparison, thanks. My priorities for it, now that I think of it in those terms, are organ first, then synth, then pianos. I'll be using it for organ and synth always, and pianos only when I'm not bringing a weighted bottom board too. In those terms, the SK Pro comes out as the clear winner. It's EPs are definitely the weak link, but even though they use the same samples as the Sk 1 (which were barely competitive when that board came out a bajillion years ago), at least they're a lot more editable now. Plus, it occurs to me that it would allow me to sell my Mojo 61 as well, which would certainly help with funding it.

[Aynsley Green]

Three nice boards, though. Likely shaking out this way...

 

That is a useful comparison, thanks. My priorities for it, now that I think of it in those terms, are organ first, then synth, then pianos. I'll be using it for organ and synth always, and pianos only when I'm not bringing a weighted bottom board too. In those terms, the SK Pro comes out as the clear winner. It's EPs are definitely the weak link, but even though they use the same samples as the Sk 1 (which were barely competitive when that board came out a bajillion years ago), at least they're a lot more editable now. Plus, it occurs to me that it would allow me to sell my Mojo 61 as well, which would certainly help with funding it.

 

If organ is your priority, then it has to be the Hammond XK5 or SKPro.

[stoken6]

organ first, then synth, then pianos. I'll be using it for organ and synth always, and pianos only when I'm not bringing a weighted bottom board too. In those terms, the SK Pro comes out as the clear winner. It's EPs are definitely the weak link, but even though they use the same samples as the Sk 1 (which were barely competitive when that board came out a bajillion years ago), at least they're a lot more editable now. Plus, it occurs to me that it would allow me to sell my Mojo 61 as well, which would certainly help with funding it.

Nice board, well designed in a lot of ways. It works on its own, over a stage piano, and there's some MIDI controller capability. Plus it can play locally from its keyboard, while simultaneously playing another sound (or sounds) from a connected MIDI controller.

I quite like the EPs on the SK Pro - it's the AP that slightly lets it down in my view. But as you say, easily compensated with a second board.

 

Good luck Josh, let us know how this turns out.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Legatoboy]

I say the Hammond SK Pro if you can abide the piano/action especially to up the organ ante....but I haven't played one. that or the YC... the organ on the YC is just not as good as the SK Pro's. The Rhodes on the SK sounded

useable .. I'd like to add the Kurzweils but the KB3 organ is just Ok ... well those are my thoughts. I thought the YC organ sounded thin in the demos... I suppose you could beef it up, I'm sure... but I think the tones themselves for what ever reason are just thinner than the SK's ....

[Al Quinn]

Yeah SK Pro appears to be the clear winner. This thread has caused me to switch my thinking from YC61 (which I wasn't all in on) to SK Pro. I'll likely buy an SK Pro 61 in a few weeks so that I can try in on my next gig (5/21) while still within the return period.

[Adan]

It goes without saying that any all-in-one board contains compromises. The Nord Compact has always been a leading contender in this category because arguably it brings the fewest. You do have to pay more for that, but if having an all-in-one is really important for your gigging, then I think it's easy to justify the added price.

 

At the same time, you can see why someone who's mainly focused on organ wouldn't go that route. The 73 keys of the NSC can be a drawback, not a strength. And the Nord organ appeals to a smaller segment than it used to as other clones have gotten significantly better while Nord's improvements have been very incremental. And why pay more for a fancier synth section and better pianos if they play only a minor role in your gigging duties.

 

I've said this in the YC61 thread, but to my thinking the YC might appeal more to the all-in-one user who leans more towards piano than organ. The sounds themselves are strong, but also, in my opinion, the action of the YC61 is better suited for piano work than the Fatar action we are all so familiar with from the Nord and Hammond series. I find the YC action more conducive to playing with dynamics. It should be mentioned in the same breath, however, that Yamaha arguably undercut this advantage by not issuing a semi-weighted YC73, and by using the smaller key width that some people see as a negative and no one sees as a positive.

 

The 3 all-in-one boards being discussed here: NSC, SKPRO, and YC61, are all fantastic gigging tools. It's interesting to debate the differences but I'd argue the bottom line is that with any of these keyboards the real limitation is going to be your playing ability and not the equipment.

[AnotherScott]

in my opinion, the action of the YC61 is better suited for piano work than the Fatar action we are all so familiar with from the Nord and Hammond series. I find the YC action more conducive to playing with dynamics.

I agree with that. Though I'd also say that even the YC61 action isn't as good for piano as the semi-weighteds in the Vox Continental or Kurzweil PC4-7 (or, presumably, SP6-7).

[Josh Paxton]

If organ is your priority, then it has to be the Hammond XK5 or SKPro.

 

The XK5 has never held any appeal for me. Sounds great, but the features that drive up its price are ones I don't care about. In fact the non-playable reverse color preset keys alone were an instant deal-breaker. (I understand why some people like them, but I'm not one of them. To me they're nothing but an extra octave worth of needless space and weight.)

 

As for the NS3, even apart from it being an octave longer than I want, it wouldn't be a serious contender. While I understand their utility, I just find them utterly uninspiring to play, no matter how good the piano sounds out front. Plus on principle alone I'm simply not paying that much for a board with limited split points.

[ChazKeys]

If organ is your priority, then it has to be the Hammond XK5 or SKPro.

 

 

As for the NS3, even apart from it being an octave longer than I want, it wouldn't be a serious contender. While I understand their utility, I just find them utterly uninspiring to play, no matter how good the piano sounds out front. Plus on principle alone I'm simply not paying that much for a board with limited split points.

 

Like the Electro 6 it does have the width setting. Though I haven"t used that feature yet.

[MathOfInsects]

As for the NS3, even apart from it being an octave longer than I want, it wouldn't be a serious contender. While I understand their utility, I just find them utterly uninspiring to play, no matter how good the piano sounds out front. Plus on principle alone I'm simply not paying that much for a board with limited split points.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood your OP to mean the length was the drawback, not the board itself. Yes, if that Scandinavian Ice Princess leaves you cold, it won"t matter how tall or short she is in the end.

 

As for the split points...I can"t for the life of me figure out why Nord persists with this arbitrary bullshit. Yes, the width setting softens the blow. But why have a blow? No one likes it, now or ever, and you"d think it wouldn"t be worth losing a sale over, particularly since 'I won"t overspend on a board unless they sabotage its versatility first' has never been said by a potential buyer.