midinut Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 This is a Jo Jo Gunne song from 1972 with Jay Ferguson playing keys. I'm thinking it sounds like maybe a Pianet or a Helpenstill but I'm not sure. I thought I would post it here and let the hive mind go at it. My guitar player wants my piano solo to sound like this on our album we're in the studio working on. Hoping someone on here either knows Jay Ferguson or knows of him and may have some insight on his piano. TIA Quote Hardware: Yamaha: MODX7 | Korg: Kronos 88, Wavestate | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe | Roland: Jupiter-Xm, Cloud Pro, TD-9K V-Drums | Alesis: StrikePad Pro| Behringer: Crave, Poly D, XR-18, RX1602 | CPS: SpaceStation SSv2 | Controllers: ROLI RISE 49 | Arturia KeyLab Essentials 88, KeyLab 61, MiniLab | M-Audio KeyStation 88 & 49 | Akai EWI USB | Novation LaunchPad Mini, | Guitars & Such: Line 6 Variax, Helix LT, POD X3 Live, Martin Acoustic, DG Strat Copy, LP Sunburst Copy, Natural Tele Copy| Squier Precision 5-String Bass | Mandolin | Banjo | Ukulele Software: Recording: MacBook Pro | Mac Mini | Logic Pro X | Mainstage | Cubase Pro 12 | Ableton Live 11 | Monitors: M-Audio BX8 | Presonus Eris 3.5BT Monitors | Slate Digital VSX Headphones & ML-1 Mic | Behringer XR-18 & RX1602 Mixers | Beyerdynamics DT-770 & DT-240 Arturia: V-Collection 9 | Native Instruments: Komplete 1 Standard | Spectrasonics: Omnisphere 2, Keyscape, Trilian | Korg: Legacy Collection 4 | Roland: Cloud Pro | GForce: Most all of their plugins | u-he: Diva, Hive 2, Repro, Zebra Legacy | AAS: Most of their VSTs | IK Multimedia: SampleTank 4 Max, Sonik Synth, MODO Drums & Bass | Cherry Audio: Most of their VSTs | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Not a Pianet, something strung. Maybe a Baldwin Electropiano? Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 I'm assuming it's an AP. Here's a pic from their site - don't know if this is what they used in the recording. Quote Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Here's a concert pic. Looks to be a grand, with some kind of device taped to the right hand side of the lock rail Quote Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Jay Ferguson has been busy since the late 60's first in the band Spirit and then Jojo Gunne. I vaguely remember seeing them once I think at the Whiskey in Hollywood I think they had one local hit record. Most the stuff I've heard Jay used funky AP and early piano mic'ing system. Jay Ferguson has done well as a media composer. Link to his IMDb page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 I'd guess it's some kind of real piano. I know back in the late 60s, before Helpenstills were around, we used to wedge contact mikes agains the soundboard of spinets, and uprights using rubber ball cut in half. I later had a guy in Buffalo install 88 magnet&coil pickups behind the strings of a Console piano (shorter than an upright, taller than a spinet, but in. wider body so the string slant would accommodate upright length strings). I think this is an easy sound to replicate with the right eq (lose some bottom and top) and a ton of the right compression, like a DBX 160 or maybe a 33609 or a Fatso JR. There are plenty of edgy compressors that should get close. Quote Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Williams Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 My ears say AP, maybe even with hardened hammers. Quote -Tom Williams {First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midinut Posted April 2, 2021 Author Share Posted April 2, 2021 Yeah I'm hearing a brighter than normal sound. I tried a tack piano patch, a few honky tonk patches, went through Keyscape to try and find something and as much as I love it they were all mostly too clean. The reason I mentioned Hohner Pianet was remembering that it (and the RMI Electra Piano) both kinda sounded like pianos but you (we) could tell they weren't. They were closer to what I was hearing. Another example was Shake That Fat off the same album. The intro has that sound I'm talking about but then you hear what sounds like regular piano takes over. Again, when it hits the second verse you can hear it again. Quote Hardware: Yamaha: MODX7 | Korg: Kronos 88, Wavestate | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe | Roland: Jupiter-Xm, Cloud Pro, TD-9K V-Drums | Alesis: StrikePad Pro| Behringer: Crave, Poly D, XR-18, RX1602 | CPS: SpaceStation SSv2 | Controllers: ROLI RISE 49 | Arturia KeyLab Essentials 88, KeyLab 61, MiniLab | M-Audio KeyStation 88 & 49 | Akai EWI USB | Novation LaunchPad Mini, | Guitars & Such: Line 6 Variax, Helix LT, POD X3 Live, Martin Acoustic, DG Strat Copy, LP Sunburst Copy, Natural Tele Copy| Squier Precision 5-String Bass | Mandolin | Banjo | Ukulele Software: Recording: MacBook Pro | Mac Mini | Logic Pro X | Mainstage | Cubase Pro 12 | Ableton Live 11 | Monitors: M-Audio BX8 | Presonus Eris 3.5BT Monitors | Slate Digital VSX Headphones & ML-1 Mic | Behringer XR-18 & RX1602 Mixers | Beyerdynamics DT-770 & DT-240 Arturia: V-Collection 9 | Native Instruments: Komplete 1 Standard | Spectrasonics: Omnisphere 2, Keyscape, Trilian | Korg: Legacy Collection 4 | Roland: Cloud Pro | GForce: Most all of their plugins | u-he: Diva, Hive 2, Repro, Zebra Legacy | AAS: Most of their VSTs | IK Multimedia: SampleTank 4 Max, Sonik Synth, MODO Drums & Bass | Cherry Audio: Most of their VSTs | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 That's an acoustic piano, but it's super compressed and it's probably an upright. Definitely an acoustic piano. It almost sounds like a piano with less than the usual three strings per note, but that would be highly unusual. I'd say you should try adding some tape simulation since you're already open to using plugins. Get the sound of slamming levels into tape plus some compression, using an upright and have it in mono. That should get you close. Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76| Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT, Kurzweil PC4 (88) Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midinut Posted April 2, 2021 Author Share Posted April 2, 2021 Thanks to all of you. I'll try my best to get something that will work. Bless his heart, when he gets a sound in his head (guitar player/songwriter) THAT'S what he wants. All I can do is try to appease him. Already had to up my game in the honky-tonk piano department for this project. lol He came in there with Billy Powel (RIP) on his brain! That was outside of my comfort zone but hey, it's what makes us develop as players, right? Quote Hardware: Yamaha: MODX7 | Korg: Kronos 88, Wavestate | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe | Roland: Jupiter-Xm, Cloud Pro, TD-9K V-Drums | Alesis: StrikePad Pro| Behringer: Crave, Poly D, XR-18, RX1602 | CPS: SpaceStation SSv2 | Controllers: ROLI RISE 49 | Arturia KeyLab Essentials 88, KeyLab 61, MiniLab | M-Audio KeyStation 88 & 49 | Akai EWI USB | Novation LaunchPad Mini, | Guitars & Such: Line 6 Variax, Helix LT, POD X3 Live, Martin Acoustic, DG Strat Copy, LP Sunburst Copy, Natural Tele Copy| Squier Precision 5-String Bass | Mandolin | Banjo | Ukulele Software: Recording: MacBook Pro | Mac Mini | Logic Pro X | Mainstage | Cubase Pro 12 | Ableton Live 11 | Monitors: M-Audio BX8 | Presonus Eris 3.5BT Monitors | Slate Digital VSX Headphones & ML-1 Mic | Behringer XR-18 & RX1602 Mixers | Beyerdynamics DT-770 & DT-240 Arturia: V-Collection 9 | Native Instruments: Komplete 1 Standard | Spectrasonics: Omnisphere 2, Keyscape, Trilian | Korg: Legacy Collection 4 | Roland: Cloud Pro | GForce: Most all of their plugins | u-he: Diva, Hive 2, Repro, Zebra Legacy | AAS: Most of their VSTs | IK Multimedia: SampleTank 4 Max, Sonik Synth, MODO Drums & Bass | Cherry Audio: Most of their VSTs | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Motif Max Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 I'll say that it's not particularly detuned, so honky-tonk might be going too far the other way. A decently in-tune upright should work as the basis (again in mono). Quote Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000 Kurzweil: PC3-76| Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT, Kurzweil PC4 (88) Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 My first guess was CP70/80. It's got a purity of tone that you don't get from mic'ing. My first guess is wrong, I know (the slightly shimmering quality of CP is missing), but the Helpinstill idea, or some kind of pickup system, is where I'd put my money. And it's certainly highly compressed, EQ'ed for brightness, and a little chorus for the detune effect? You might want to try a CP patch on your Kronos or MODX - not to be authentic, but it might capture some of the quality of what your guitar player is looking for. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 It almost sounds like a piano with less than the usual three strings per note, but that would be highly unusual. That would describe one version of the Baldwin Electropiano I mentioned, they made one with just one string per note. the Helpinstill idea, or some kind of pickup system, is where I'd put my money. and ditto, the Baldwin Electropiano, which is a strung piano with short strings, and pickups but no soundboard. (I'm not saying that's what the band used, I don't know, but that's about what the Baldwin sounds like, to my memory.) And no, not a Pianet (which would sound more like a Rhodes or Wulry, depending on the vintage), nor an RMI (which had its own sound but was not velocity senstive). This one is definitely strings. Even undamped at the top. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWkeys Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Not to shift focus, but I always wondered what Bill Payne was using on the original recording of Tripe Face Boogie: [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Not to shift focus, but I always wondered what Bill Payne was using on the original recording of Tripe Face Boogie Sounds like a CP70/CP80 to me. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrVegas Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 This thread blows my mind. I have not thought about JoJo Gunne in 20 years. I was a big fan of their early stuff as well as Spirit. Quote _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Kronos 88, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha MOXF8, Ventilator 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Mullins Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Jay Ferguson was my first rock concert experience as a kid; he opened for Styx on their Grand Illusion tour...which is why I went. I'm guessing if I went back and listened to both today, I would prefer Jay Quote Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact www.stickmanor.com There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJkeys Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Not to shift focus, but I always wondered what Bill Payne was using on the original recording of Tripe Face Boogie Sounds like a CP70/CP80 to me. I had a Helpenstill Roadmaster 64 and sold it to buy a CP70. I hated the sound of it, plus the pickups fed back at really low volumes. The sound here is very close to the Helpinstill rather than the Yamaha- -dj Quote iMac i7 13.5.2 Studio One 5.5.2 Nord Stage 3 Nord Wave 2 Nektar T4 Drawmer DL 241 Focusrite ISA Two Focusrite Clarett 8 Pre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 I don't think it's a CP70 or Electropro. Bass strings not tubby sounding enough. Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 The Jo Jo Gunne music from the OP is from 1972, which I believe pre-dates the Yamaha CP-70, which came out in the late 70s? Quote Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dongna Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 I think Helpinstill is a great guess. Hornsby used to use one live in his early days, and this sounds very similar IMHO. [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Here's a concert pic. Looks to be a grand, with some kind of device taped to the right hand side of the lock rail Maybe that's a Helpinstill control box attached to Jay's piano? Quote Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWkeys Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Not to shift focus, but I always wondered what Bill Payne was using on the original recording of Tripe Face Boogie Sounds like a CP70/CP80 to me. I had a Helpenstill Roadmaster 64 and sold it to buy a CP70. I hated the sound of it, plus the pickups fed back at really low volumes. The sound here is very close to the Helpinstill rather than the Yamaha- -dj That was my guess, though I never played one myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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