Bone nut and saddle

[skipclone 1]

Hi

My acoustic, as is, has gotten applause for the sound. I think a few of you have heard it before.

The only thing I can think might improve it, is to switch out the nut and saddle.

But that's it-it MIGHT improve it. Is it guaranteed to be better? is it worth the hassle and expense?

will it lose what it already has?

I guess I'm asking, did anyone make the change and did it help.

[KuruPrionz]

The saddle will make more difference than the nut, the nut can only affect the tone of the open strings and then just slightly.

Since I don't know what material is used for the nut and saddle now, it's impossible to even guess what the difference would be.

 

A properly adjusted saddle and nut (combined with level frets and a correctly adjusted truss rod), can make a big difference in playability. Whether the player likes it better is subjective, some may prefer it the way it was.

 

You've not described what aspects of the tone you would like to improve either. A friend recently swapped out his plastic bridge pins for a set of brass ones that are sort of an L shape and add mass/density to the bridge assembly.

He lost some acoustic volume but the response is much more even and the increase in sustain is notable. I like it better but somebody else may not.

 

The more you can tell us, the better. Cheers, Kuru

[Larryz]

Skip, I prefer bone nuts and saddles on acoustic guitars and bone nuts on electrics. I'm not sure whether or not they change the tone all that much. I have one Strat with a metal roller nut and it sounds very nice. I like bone nut as it's the strongest material between plastic, tusq and bone. I had a cheap plastic nut crack on me on the 6th string slot on a cheaper MIM Tele. I had it replaced with a tusq nut (which is a much harder plastic material). The tech showed me how easily the cheaper plastic nuts break and there is not that big of an expense in upgrading a little bit. If it ain't broke, don't fix it is my motto, but your ear is probably much better than mine. I have had the bridge saddles sanded on a couple of my acoustics to lower the action. In that case, I would have replaced the saddles with bone, but they already had bone LOL!

[skipclone 1]

Hi

Thanks so much for the replies.

I have heard that bone nuts or saddles are better for clarity and sustain.

Unfortunately the lack of climate control and brutal temp changes have had an effect.

The guitar is a Seagull S6 flame maple. But It's some kind of premium model, I'm not sure

about details. I got it as a partial tradedin for an S6 cedar.It was clearly a level above.

[KuruPrionz]

Hi

Thanks so much for the replies.

I have heard that bone nuts or saddles are better for clarity and sustain.

Unfortunately the lack of climate control and brutal temp changes have had an effect.

The guitar is a Seagull S6 flame maple. But It's some kind of premium model, I'm not sure

about details. I got it as a partial tradedin for an S6 cedar.It was clearly a level above.

 

"bone nuts or saddles are better for clarity and sustain"

This might or might not be true depending on what the guitar has now. Cheap plastic like Larryz describes - yes bone is definitely better. I do use bone and I like working with it.

 

I should have known this but recently I installed a K&K Pro Mini under the soundboard of my Rainsong OM 1000 guitar. I knew how they sounded from installing a few in friend's guitars so I went ahead and removed the LR Baggs Element under saddle pickup, which I have always hated because the B string is super loud and the E and G next to it don't blend well at all. Plus the tone in general had a harsh attack and sort of blunt ugliness about it, not a pretty sounding pickup at all.

 

I took out the pickup and made a deeper saddle to fill the area that the Baggs pickup was using.

 

I could not believe the difference in tone!!! Acoustically, the guitar was alive, full, rich, sustain for days - a HUGE improvement. I wish I'd done it years ago. And of course it makes sense, not having that pickup in-between the saddle and the bottom of the slot is bound to improve contact and bring more string energy to the top.

 

If you have an under saddle pickup and your budget allows, I would highly recommend that conversion as the best tone enhancing modification I've made to an acoustic guitar. The K&K sounds fantastic as well, with no knobs, no battery, just a simple passive pickup and an output jack. I am really happy with it.

 

Now, it is possible also that your guitar has a shim or two under the saddle. My Dad used to say "Cut it off twice and it's still too short." It happens with saddles, they are cut too low and the manufacturer cuts shims of thin plastic and shims the saddle back up to height. Next time you change the strings, see if you can pull the saddle straight up and out of the slot. See if there are any shims, there might even be an under saddle pickup AND shims - I've seen that before too.

 

If your Seagull has the cheap plastic saddle, a bone saddle will improve the tone. If it has a quality plastic saddle it might not make much difference. I've found that sometimes the corners of the saddle slot are not cleanly cut "square" as well. That prevents the saddle from making full contact but it's also an easy fix. Pull the saddle, use an emory board or fingernail file and just bevel the bottom edges of the saddle slightly. That can be enough for the bottom of the saddle to make full contact with the bottom of the saddle slot. You'll hear it if it happens, bone or plastic.

[skipclone 1]

Hmm, that's sad to hear of your experience with LR Baggs. My acoustic has that system and the sound as I mentioned, is

just fine. I don't see changing that anytime soon. I'm considering playing open mic with it on Sunday, if I decide to change strings first I'll have a look at the saddle.

[KuruPrionz]

Hmm, that's sad to hear of your experience with LR Baggs. My acoustic has that system and the sound as I mentioned, is

just fine. I don't see changing that anytime soon. I'm considering playing open mic with it on Sunday, if I decide to change strings first I'll have a look at the saddle.

 

It might be different with wood. The Rainsong is 100% graphite. Nothing else sounds like it. It's brighter but also fuller. Sustain is incredible for an acoustic guitar.

It may have pushed the pickup beyond what it could reproduce. I probably could have changed strings around a bit to find a better balance volume wise but playability wise I really like the set.

 

I like the Seagulls, a friend has a 12 string and it's nice. I've played a few of them, all perfectly fine guitars. So I'm not knocking anything but some combinations work better than others and we all like different things.

 

I know lots of players love the Ovation deep bowl round backs. I sold a beautiful one today, I just could not get comfortable with the guitar, it kept "rolling away" from me. Sounded great, played great, did not like it.

It has a happy new owner now, I like that. I hope they have fun with it.

[skipclone 1]

I had the same experience with Ovations. Aside from the slipperiness, most of the ones I tried, seemed like acoustics for people

who don't usually play acoustics. The one exception was my bandmate's Legend. Awesome guitar.

[KuruPrionz]

OK, when you do get around to pulling the saddle (and there is no hurry about this...) take a look at the under saddle pickup.

My Rainsong is probably 2006-8-ish, it came with a factory LR Baggs Element but manufacturers change their products all the time as they develop and yours may be different.

Mine was inside braided shielding from the factory. It was sort of "squishy", you could squeeze it to different shapes. That is not ideal for string to top contact.

 

Honestly, if yours is like that too, a bone saddle won't make much of a difference since it will be "floating" above the contact point. Lots of under saddle transducers are stiff, solid pieces, which would work better for transferring energy from the saddle to the top. That's why removing mine and running the saddle all the way down to the bridge made such a big difference, the transducer was not solid but surrounded by a flexible membrane.

 

So check yours and see what you find. If it's like mine and you go to a solid saddle to the bottom of the slot you will be amazed at how great your guitar will sound. Cheers, Kuru

[skipclone 1]

That's a really good call. I'll have a look, thank you.