"Soundbar" Keyboard monitor?

[EricBarker]

I keep looking at the long torpedo-shaped thing slung over my TV and thinking, "damn, that would make a slick keyboard monitor!" I could hang it under the top tier of my stand, it would put out stereo sound localized just a foot away from my head, and sound like it was coming from the keys! It would be extremely portable and easy to setup too. Does anyone make one with high enough output that it could work on stage?

[roygBiv]

There is one that has been discussed here....

 

...and apparently I logged on to say I can't remember what it was

[roygBiv]

Yay, I found it - made by Korg:

https://www.korg.com/us/products/accessories/pa_as/

[roygBiv]

Actually, I'm not sure that is the one that was discussed here on the "K - Korner"

 

Hmmm, maybe it was a Vox thing? I can remember what it looked like, some people liked it, others didn't, some talked about other things. It was a very unusual thread in that way.

 

EDIT:

Sorry for the distractions Eric, I finally found the Keyboard corner thread I was thinking about - here it is:

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2977456/1

 

(Not Korg, not sure what I was thinking there...)

[AnotherScott]

That particular Korg is only for specific Korg keyboards... it has no independent power supply or audio connections for anything else to work, AFAIK. But you're on the right track... A search turned up this one by Sequenz, which is a Korg division... https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2986162/

[roygBiv]

That particular Korg is only for specific Korg keyboards... it has no independent power supply or audio connections for anything else to work, AFAIK. But you're on the right track... A search turned up this one by Sequenz, which is a Korg division... https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2986162/

Agreed, see Edit above

[Coker]

I"m guessing Eric was talking about a TV sound bar for the keyboard. The form factor is perfect, but there is typically an unacceptable amount of latency due to digital processing. I tried some and reported back to this forum a few years ago.

[Mr. Nightime]

When I changed TVs, I had to change my "Soundbar" as my TV did not have the outputs needed to connect

 

So, I purchased an LG, and brought my Sony system into my office to use as a keys amp.

 

Nice idea, didn't work. I ran direct into it, but there was highly noticeable latency.

 

I've moved my home setup into another room, and bought Mackie CR3XBT studio monitors.

 

Plenty of horsepower for that room, with good tone and clarity. And no latency

 

And it's cheaper than the soundbar I bought for my TV.

[EricBarker]

Actually, my cheap Amazon Basics SoundBar has an analog Aux in, no processing or latency I can detect. I've played through it on my keyboard a few times as a test and it felt fine. That said, it probably isn't loud enough to use in a live gig setting. The fact that it would be very close to my ears could make it possible, but I'm not sure, I haven't tried. I would imagine that more advanced sound bars that are built to decode more advanced home studio settings could create some problems.

 

I'm not as interested in a home studio setup, because obviously traditional mounted monitors make more sense, but something that could easily sling into a long gig bag and be attached to a keyboard stand would be fantastic. The Sequenz SonicBar looks like a nice option. I could create some tiny bungie chord loops and hang it from the arms of my column stand below one of my boards.

[AnotherScott]

I thought this one looked interesting, and cheap... VMAI Sound Bar... they claim 90 watts total and 110 dB max SPL... even assuming it's nowhere near that, if it just reaches into the 90s in SPL, it would be fine. WHether it has any latency (via direct connection) would be a question...

[Baldwin Funster]

Those things are made to reproduce compressed and limiter processed program material. Raw instrument sounds are SURE to distort on the low keys.

[EricBarker]

Eh, to a degree: an amp is an amp is an amp. No, it's not tuned for keyboard to perfection, but in the end it's just another cheap solid state HiFi amp/speaker combo. Might I also remind that many films have HUGE dynamic range with lots of low end (too much so, IMO). I might agree with you if this was 2002, but TV/Film material these days is shockingly under-compressed. I'm sure my keys have far less dynamic range. Anyway, monitoring isn't a precise art when you're playing crappy local venues.

[Stephen Fortner]

Caveat: I haven't done nearly enough research on what's currently out there. A bar-shaped amp intended for an arranger keyboard is almost certainly not going to be powerful enough in a loud rock or soul band onstage. It sounds like the vision here is something like a horizontal take on a Bose L1 style system, perhaps with a detached housing that holds the power amp and subwoofer and sits on the floor. That would certainly be cool.

[RandyFF]

Eh, to a degree: an amp is an amp is an amp. No, it's not tuned for keyboard to perfection, but in the end it's just another cheap solid state HiFi amp/speaker combo. Might I also remind that many films have HUGE dynamic range with lots of low end (too much so, IMO). I might agree with you if this was 2002, but TV/Film material these days is shockingly under-compressed. I'm sure my keys have far less dynamic range. Anyway, monitoring isn't a precise art when you're playing crappy local venues.

 

I've often thought that the best stereo coverage, minimal schleppage and reasonable cost would be to use the vocal monitors that usually come in 5"-6.5" sizes. They're light enough to mount on a mic stand, so you'd be able to position them well, presumably even on a crowded stage. And because they're optimally close to your ears, you'd have enough volume for a rock band. The thing missing of course is enough bass. That could be optional depending on the size of the stage/gig, bringing along a little sub.

[Baldwin Funster]

Eh, to a degree: an amp is an amp is an amp. No, it's not tuned for keyboard to perfection, but in the end it's just another cheap solid state HiFi amp/speaker combo. Might I also remind that many films have HUGE dynamic range with lots of low end (too much so, IMO). I might agree with you if this was 2002, but TV/Film material these days is shockingly under-compressed. I'm sure my keys have far less dynamic range. Anyway, monitoring isn't a precise art when you're playing crappy local venues.

 

I've often thought that the best stereo coverage, minimal schleppage and reasonable cost would be to use the vocal monitors that usually come in 5"-6.5" sizes. They're light enough to mount on a mic stand, so you'd be able to position them well, presumably even on a crowded stage. And because they're optimally close to your ears, you'd have enough volume for a rock band. The thing missing of course is enough bass. That could be optional depending on the size of the stage/gig, bringing along a little sub.

 

I have a couple of these spot monitors but because of the you know what, I haven't had gigs to use them. Yes the bass is lacking but I assume I will get plenty of off axis low and mids coming from other amplification like the mains and these will fill in the highs. That's the plan anyways.

[emenelton]

I thought this one looked interesting, and cheap... VMAI Sound Bar... they claim 90 watts total and 110 dB max SPL... even assuming it's nowhere near that, if it just reaches into the 90s in SPL, it would be fine. WHether it has any latency (via direct connection) would be a question...

 

I bought the VMAI for my Dexibell S1 cart that"s in my living room. It"s got 1/8' stereo in. I adjusted the dsp to music, works well and seems like it"s expensive.

[niacin]

This is Yamaha's version, 2 x 30W + 60W subwoofer, stereo mini jack in, regular power supply option:

 

https://au.yamaha.com/en/products/audio_visual/sound_bar/ats-1080/index.html#product-tabs

[stoken6]

These days, audio manufactures tend to use the word "subwoofer" to mean woofer. Those "lower-frequency" speakers look to be 6in max?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

I did check out that VMAI Sound Bar. No noticeable latency. But for me, the size/bulk/weight of it is kind of awkward. I'd stick with something smaller. In a very brief test, volume seemed to be in the range of my old Klipsch KMC3 or the iLoud Mini Monitors, for example, But if it happens to fit well into your setup (e.g. the way the OP described using it), I suppose it might be viable, and the price might be right.

[stoken6]

What would be your ideal form factor Scott? Klipsch-sized lunchbox?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

What would be your ideal form factor Scott? Klipsch-sized lunchbox?

A smaller, lighter version of that would be ideal, but since AFAIK nothing like that exists, I'm also considering other form factors. (It would be for placing on top of a Vox Continental for things clike ceremony/cocktail hour stuff. I thought a Soundbar might be an option if I could put it on some little rubber "stilts" I have in order to raise it above the controls, but it ended up being too big/heavy/awkward.)

[stoken6]

Bumping this thread to share this, which popped up in my junk mail today:

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/home-entertainment/home-cinema-systems/sc-htb01.html

Rated at 80w (seems optimistic to me, but that's quoted as RMS), with a passive-radiator "subwoofer" plus two midrange and two tweeters.

 

Shockingly there's no analogue audio in (optical and HDMI only), but it looks interesting from a form-factor/power point of view.

 

Cheers, Mike

[EricBarker]

Neckroing this thread a few months. I finally took my TV Soundbar off and put it on top of my keyboard, and I'm in LOVE. This is the closest I've ever gotten to it feeling like a real piano. Even though the sound isn't the absolute best (pretty good for a $120 TV speaker but still), but the placement just makes it feel right, even better than a great monitor in an unnatural spot.

 

Now I'm seriously considering one of those SonicBar doohickies. I'm just wondering if it'll work with my setup at all. For gigging I use a K&M Spider, 2-tier. At home I currently have a heavy Hercules 2-tier X stand. The holy grail would be to somehow "sling" a sound bar under the top tier. Maybe on bungie cables with hooks. Unfortunately, the SonicBar looks unusually smooth without any attachment points, though some very sturdy rubber bungies wrapped around tight, and then a second pair for hanging would probably be great.

 

Bumping this thread to share this, which popped up in my junk mail today:

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/home-entertainment/home-cinema-systems/sc-htb01.html

Rated at 80w (seems optimistic to me, but that's quoted as RMS), with a passive-radiator "subwoofer" plus two midrange and two tweeters.

 

Lol, I'm a HUGE Final Fantasy XIV nerd, so this caught my attention. Unfortunately, the footprint looks terrible for my interest (was looking for a squarish thing that would easily hang), and lack of analog-in is a deal breaker. Maybe I'll get one for my TV at some point though, and I'll obviously be a big dork and get the FF14 Limited Edition version!

[EricBarker]

Weird, RandyFF just replied here, asking for some specifics, but the post seems to have disappeared. To answer his question: no, it's not a Vizio SoundBar, it's branded as "AmazonBasics 2.1 SoundBar with Builtin Subwoofer", which could mean anything. I've found AmazonBasics to be sort of like Kirkland generics for Costco, who knows who makes them, but they seem to always be reliable and good quality stuff at low prices. Unfortunately it's no longer in production. It has an analog Aux in (1/8in) with no discernible latency that I can hear. It's probably not loud enough for loud group practicing, but my wife and I practiced some duets last night, and it was perfect for that at less than half volume.

 

I've hung it under the my 2nd tier, jury-rigged with some hair ties as a test. I can do a more robust job later using some heavier bungie chords with hooks. But I may want to invest in something like the Sonic Bar if I'm serious about this. My only concern is that's pretty wide at 6" square, If I used my current configuration it would pretty much take up all the space between my boards. If I could find something 4in square, I think that would be a good compromise. Between the boards is good though, I usually have a Seaboard and mic attachment just above my top tier, so that doesn't really leave room for a monitor bar.

 

Here's a quick pic of it as I've currently got it setup:

http://www.ericbarker.com/dropbox/SoundBarTest.jpg

[PianoMan51]

How loud is your band on stage? Are you wearing ear plugs/protectors?

[EricBarker]

Honestly, I don't know yet, I'm about to move anyway. My band before was extremely loud, nothing consumer-grade would have been sufficient. However, I'm currently lined up to play with a number of folk-rock and roots musicians in Alaska that are pretty quiet and mostly acoustic. If anything else, this might be nice for studio practice. I'll try it out a few times, and if I like it, I might move up to something more robust that can handle stage use. Another idea is that likely I'll be playing with house PAs and monitors, If I just use this for myself, I can ask for less in the monitor mix. When I've played small-town gigs like this before, there's usually just a single monitor mix, and I can just use my own tiny soundbar for some localized boost.

 

We'll see! It's an experiment, and with these quieter groups, probably a good time to test it out.

[obxa]

Thanks Eric! Great idea! I love this for (self) rehearsing a show an/or working on it's associated sounds & patches- (which is what half my time is spent on).

 

When I set up whatever full live rig I'm using in the studio it's too far from my monitors. So I'll use headphones, or IEMS which get really uncomfortable after long hours.

 

I have some small powered monitors, but they're inconvenient to place on the rig for stereo. Soundbar would be a simple compact stereo setup and give my ears a break Don't need it at stage volume. Got a retired Vizio going to try this with.

 

Cheers,

C

[PianoMan51]

In situations where I don"t need ear protection (reasonably low stage volume) and I"m having difficulty placing speakers to balance the sound going to me, the band, and the audience...

 

I use ear buds running from my keyboard mixer"s headphone output. Not IEMs or in-ears and not foam, but hard plastic ear buds that just sit in your ear. They don"t attenuate the live sound much. I can listen to myself comfortably in stereo at whatever volume I like and still hear the rest of the band.

 

I"ve been doing this for about eight years, certainly for hundreds of shows and it always works. And it also helps with my vocals, which I want to hear much louder than anyone else.

[RandyFF]

Eric,

I'd written a post, and then went back and re-read the whole thread and could see I was repeating myself, so I just deleted it.

 

I'm surprised someone doesn't make a MIDI controller that has an audio interface and good sized built-in speakers!!! I LOVE built-in speakers, they make setup/teardown a snap, and even if they're not always sufficient, sometimes all you need to do is add an 8" 2 way or a small sub and you've got plenty of sound for many situations.

 

I had a Korg Pa1000, 66 watts of stereo power to a woofer and tweeter, incredibly rich sound, a real pleasure to play, and no setup! At 25 pounds it was light enough, but only had 61 notes unfortunately. I currently have a Kawai ES920, 40 watts to 2 speakers, it definitely needs a bass boost but the rest of the sound is already there, in a 37.5 pound board that has primo action and sounds. I also have a Casio CT-X5000 board, $450, and that little 61 note sucker with 30 watts puts out a ton of sound, for my uses I usually don't even bother with an auxiliary speaker/sub.

 

The people have spoken with their wallets and say: Give us built-in speakers!

 

If I was to design a controller board with built-in speakers I'd be aiming at 100 watts total, most of it for the sub, but also with a mid-woofer and a tweeter. And the tweeter would be not just be facing up, they'd also be slanted towards the player. I'm surprised someone hasn't come out with this, but truth be told, there are plenty of regular boards that have sounds that have good speakers. For a controller board with speakers I imagine you'd want to have an audio interface built in so that it was effortless to bring the audio from the computer into the board.

 

Another variation- the Yamaha EW410 has built-in speakers AND there's an optional sub you can buy to fill out the sound. I like that kind of thinking, provide the amp, though these days it's easy enough to find speakers that have amps built into them.

[EricBarker]

Honestly, holy grail would be to have some kind of standardize Lego-like fittings for all of this crap, so it would be easy to mix and match. Sort of like Eurorack, but for musicians