Dumb MIDI / Mainstage Question

[nursers]

I hang my head in shame at even having to ask this, but here goes. I'm at a gig with the following rig:

 

MODX7

Arturia Keylab Mk II

Mainstage

Macbook Pro

Radial KL8

 

The MODX and Keylab are both connected via USB to the laptop and the laptop is connected by USB to the KL8. I use the MODX only for its on board sounds so audio cables also run from it to the KL8. The Keylab is using plugins.

 

My issue is: when I play the Keylab I am hearing the MODX's sounds i.e. via MIDI I'm controlling the MODX from the Arturia. I actually don't want that, and in Mainstage I've set the MODX to MIDI Ch 1 and the Keylab to Ch 2. So why is this happening?

 

Thanks hugely in advance of any assistance you can provide

[Iconoclast]

Apologies up front, these problems are difficult to comprehend without being hands-on sometimes, but I'll take a couple stabs at it. My other alibis are I'm not familiar with the MODX but I have done multi keyboard Mainstage rigs with Yamaha, Kurz, Nord, Hammond and Studio Logic. Not all at once of course!

 

1. Why is the modx connected via USB to the laptop? If you're only using it for local stuff, you can unplug the USB and fix the problem there?

 

2. Maybe if using a split or layer on the MODX you are receiving on ch2 on one of the layers/splits? The Arturia is xmitting ch2 but maybe one of your MODx internal instruments is listening to ch2? For example I'm pretty sure on the Forte using a split that zone 2 would be listening for ch2 by default unless you changed it. Similarly in the Nord one of the panels may be listening for ch2 instructions even though the keyboard is transmitting on ch1 across the network.

 

3. I can't remember why offhand at midnight here, but I think you're normally better off to put the main mainstage controller on ch1. Something about auditioning new sounds and they end up monophonic unless you're on ch1. (This advice won't help you for your gig tonight but might help you in the future when you can't figure out why you can't get poly sounds out of MS)

 

4. I doubt this is it, but did you create an external instrument channel strip in Mainstage at the patch or higher level that is transmitting on ch1? That would do it, but it would be difficult to do by accident.

 

Good Luck! Pick your head up. Mainstage is easy. But before it's easy it's impossible. Hope I helped.

[nursers]

Thanks so much for that, I think it will be a huge help! I have the MODX connected to Mainstage as I send patch changes from Mainstage at start of each song. I'll have a further dig, thanks again!

[Iconoclast]

OK, then my best guess would be #2. On a lot of keyboards, setting the Master Midi Channel to something doesn't mean that internally the keyboard isn't sending other channel information for local use. Then messages come from that channel from outside the keyboard, it doesn't know the difference and reacts to that message.

 

Is it all MODX programs that are responding to the keylab or just some of them?

[nursers]

OK, then my best guess would be #2. On a lot of keyboards, setting the Master Midi Channel to something doesn't mean that internally the keyboard isn't sending other channel information for local use. Then messages come from that channel from outside the keyboard, it doesn't know the difference and reacts to that message.

 

Is it all MODX programs that are responding to the keylab or just some of them?

 

Great points again - thanks! I'm not sure in relation to your last question, some diving into the menus is required for me I think

[PianoMan51]

I haven"t used Mainstage in a setup with a sound-producing board, but I do remember that in the 'setup" page (that"s where you create the parameters for each midi input, such as key range) toward the bottom of that page in the left hand bar, there is a selection of whether you want received midi to be sent back out to the midi out connector. Try changing this setting for your Arthuria board. You don"t want the midi messages from the Keyscape to be re-sent.

[Iconoclast]

Does the MODX play every part of a patch every time you play the Keylab? Or does the MODX play only sometimes when you play the keylab? Does the keylab trigger the MODX play all sounds of layered patch, or only some sounds of a layered patch? The answers to those questions will help point you to your issue.

 

Also, I know there's a lot of traps you can fall into in Mainstage when using external instrument channel strips. There's a bunch of boxes and radio buttons you can click incorrectly and I can't name them all here without Mainstage in front of me. Remember you can have a setting wrong at the set or concert level and it will be wrong in all patches that are nested in those folders.

[AnotherScott]

Does the MODX play every part of a patch every time you play the Keylab? Or does the MODX play only sometimes when you play the keylab? Does the keylab trigger the MODX play all sounds of layered patch, or only some sounds of a layered patch? The answers to those questions will help point you to your issue.

Yes, that would be helpful to know. In Multi mode, for example, if the MODX receives any MIDI on channel 2, it will only play the sound assigned to Part 2.

[nursers]

Thanks so much to you all again - these are great leads and I will set everything up again post-gig and work it through. Will report back here for posterity once I solve it

[Iconoclast]

Bump...Did we ever find out what the culprit was here?

[nursers]

Bump...Did we ever find out what the culprit was here?

 

Hiya, no but today I've started setting up my full rig to do just that. One thing I think I might have been doing wrong is not having the MODX set to Local Off. I'll have a fiddle and will definitely report back

[EscapeRocks]

I have the answer you're looking for since I use my MODX8 (and YC61) with Mainstage or Gig Performer.

 

First, regardless if you're using internal MODX sound or not, you want to run your MODX8 in Local Off.

It will take some more setup in Mainstage (external instrument track, etc..)

 

This way your MODX only receives a note on signal when you have setup a track for that in Mainstage to send to it,

 

Since you say your use your MODX for patch change, do I assume correctly you have created Bank and PC change on each program? That's how I do it. Make it so nice to just hit my Live Set and it bring sup the proper song on Mainstage.

 

I run the MODX in Single Mode, so each patch is only transmitting on one channel. In my case my MODX is transmitting Channel 1. I let Mainstage or Gig Performer do all the heavy lifting as far as what is then sent back to the MODX

 

Currently, I am using Gig Performer the most, but the same theories apply. When I hit a Live set, it changes to the proper song on GigPerfomer. Gig performer also sends a PC to the YC61.

 

Once you get your rig set back up, feel free to hit me up and we can walk thru your setup when or if you encounter any glitches after following some of the advice here.

[nursers]

I have the answer you're looking for since I use my MODX8 (and YC61) with Mainstage or Gig Performer.

 

First, regardless if you're using internal MODX sound or not, you want to run your MODX8 in Local Off.

It will take some more setup in Mainstage (external instrument track, etc..)

 

This way your MODX only receives a note on signal when you have setup a track for that in Mainstage to send to it,

 

Since you say your use your MODX for patch change, do I assume correctly you have created Bank and PC change on each program? That's how I do it. Make it so nice to just hit my Live Set and it bring sup the proper song on Mainstage.

 

I run the MODX in Single Mode, so each patch is only transmitting on one channel. In my case my MODX is transmitting Channel 1. I let Mainstage or Gig Performer do all the heavy lifting as far as what is then sent back to the MODX

 

Currently, I am using Gig Performer the most, but the same theories apply. When I hit a Live set, it changes to the proper song on GigPerfomer. Gig performer also sends a PC to the YC61.

 

Once you get your rig set back up, feel free to hit me up and we can walk thru your setup when or if you encounter any glitches after following some of the advice here.

 

You sir are, as always, a scholar and gentleman and it's hugely appreciated. I'm hoping tonight to have my whole rig setup and I'm going to test out Camelot Pro plus will also follow your advice re: Mainstage and work out which one I go with. Will update here once I've worked it out

[nursers]

Ok so an update:

 

1. I've given up trying to get Camelot to work. It was very happy to connect to my MODX7 but would not refresh the patch list (I have a bunch of custom patches). I looked up their meagre help section etc to no avail. So back to Mainstage I've gone.

 

2. Thanks to all the great advice above I picked up a rookie error. In the layout section of Mainstage, I'd originally configured the MODX Midi to be on all channels. So even though in the channel strip on a song I'd only select Ch 1, it was still triggering the Keylab as well.

 

So that's resolved the issue - then I plan on fiddling around with controlling each keyboard from the other one, but that's for another day. Also, another tip for a future doofus like me. If you've set up your MODX as an external instrument channel strip, Local Off means you hear nothing

 

Again - huge thanks to all the legends above who provided guidance.

[EscapeRocks]

Ok so an update:

 

Also, another tip for a future doofus like me. If you've set up your MODX as an external instrument channel strip, Local Off means you hear nothing

 

 

UNLESS you send the note on/note off back to the MODX thru Mainstage. My MODX8 runs in Local Off when using Mainstage or GigPerformer.

 

This is how you keep it from playing internal sounds from the keyboard when all you want is a VST to sound.

 

All Mainstage does is enter/intercept the MIDI routing.

 

Look at it like this. MODX and other keys like it basically send a MIDI note on/off directly to the internal sound engine.

 

MODX>Note On message>Sound engine When Local is On

 

MODX>Note On message>Nowhere when Local is OFF

 

MODX>Note On Message>Mainstage>MODX Sound engine. of course Local is OFF

 

By using Mainstage (or GP) to tell the MODX to play a note, it opens up infinite possibilities for you set up and show. You can have patches in MS where the MODX just plays a VST, patches in MS where the MODX plays just it's internal sounds, or a combination of VST and internal.

 

Plus, you can also setup other controllers to play your MODX, in any specified range, octave, etc...

[nursers]

That's brilliant stuff David and definitely want to take it to that next stage - thanks again for the invaluable info and hopefully it helps others in the future as well. I'll be back to this thread myself eventually

[Mahbub]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:16 PM, EscapeRocks said:

 

UNLESS you send the note on/note off back to the MODX thru Mainstage. My MODX8 runs in Local Off when using Mainstage or GigPerformer.

 

This is how you keep it from playing internal sounds from the keyboard when all you want is a VST to sound.

 

All Mainstage does is enter/intercept the MIDI routing.

 

Look at it like this. MODX and other keys like it basically send a MIDI note on/off directly to the internal sound engine.

 

MODX>Note On message>Sound engine When Local is On

 

MODX>Note On message>Nowhere when Local is OFF

 

MODX>Note On Message>Mainstage>MODX Sound engine. of course Local is OFF

 

By using Mainstage (or GP) to tell the MODX to play a note, it opens up infinite possibilities for you set up and show. You can have patches in MS where the MODX just plays a VST, patches in MS where the MODX plays just it's internal sounds, or a combination of VST and internal.

 

Plus, you can also setup other controllers to play your MODX, in any specified range, octave, etc...

Hi… Exactly this is what i want to do. 
Wish i could find a vlog on this entire procedure.