Lollapalooza 2004 Canceled

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

story here

 

They can't get anyone to buy tickets to this show, and they can't figure out why. Perhaps we've reached a saturation point with summertime festival-type tours. The other option, of course, is that no one give a crap about Morrissey, Sonic Youth or the Flaming Lips. But on a bigger picture, ticket sales are down across the board, for the Warped tour, Ozzfest and the individual tours being held this summer.

 

Any idea what's going on?

 

- Jeff

[mound]

Sonic Youth or the Flaming Lips

those were the only good bands on the bill!

[shniggens]

Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

story here

The other option, of course, is that no one give a crap about Morrissey, Sonic Youth or the Flaming Lips.

- Jeff

That would be my guess!

[dougsthang]

They should follow Coca-Cola's example, this year's tour could have been billed "New" Lollapalooza...then when it sucked and failed the following summer come out with "Classic" Lollapalooza featuring Metallica, Beastie Boys, a reunited NWA, Audio Slave, and Hole

[Steve LeBlanc]

I wouldn't have bought tickets if they were only $5 each...what a boring bunch of marginally talented white people on that bill.

 

Didn't Lollapalooza used have a large hiphop contingent? what happened?

 

I'm not sure what music fans are listening to these days but it can't be the shit that's on the radio.

 

Funny, the jamband circuit (that so many make fun of) seems to be making more money than ever...Bonnaroo was really successful this year (even more than last year) wasn't it?

 

Obviously Clear Channel is at least part of the cause of these problems...if the radio airwaves played better music, kids would have more exposure to bands that are really worth paying to see live.

 

just some quick thoughts

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Stephen LeBlanc:

Funny, the jamband circuit (that so many make fun of) seems to be making more money than ever...Bonnaroo was really successful this year (even more than last year) wasn't it?

Yes, but Bonnaroo is a single event. It's hard to compare it to a road tour. But yes, it did well, and is probably going to continue as a perennial event. The cool thing about Bonnaroo, IMHO, is that it's not tied to any genre of music. Rock, progressive, folk, hip-hop, electronica are all represented.

 

- Jeff

[Hanshananigan]

Dunno.

I'm kinda off the vibe of new music now that I'm in a smaller city, in grad school, and typically socialize doing the "couples thing."

 

I do remember that many of the bands on the early tours were just on the cusp of fame- like Pearl Jam and Ministry. Bands kids were asking, "that sounds cool, what is it?" There was a vibe about new music- the grunge, industrial, crossover hip-hop, all those 80's bands finally hitting it big. It doesn't seem like there's been a big "alternative" scene growing and sitting on the edge that could explode onto the top40 scene if someone put them in the backdrop of a movie or something. "Nu-metal" might fit that category, but I don't think it hits a big enough audience to create enough of a buzz.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah I think you're right Hanshananigan. Bob Ohlsson made the point recently that perhaps even a bigger problem than Clear Channel et al, is the lack of a profitable "minor league" system, that is, there are hardly any small clubs making money now and that is where new bands usually break in.

 

There are various reasons for that, but I do think that the Clear Channel mentality plays into that too - people will go see a bar band playing the same songs as the classic rock stations play ad nauseum, for example, but they won't go out to see anything new. A couple of weeks ago my band played in a bar and a couple of people practically throttled us because we don't play any Allman Brothers or Neil Young. It's gotten to where people think they're ENTITLED to hear the same set lists now because so many bands are willing to do them, otherwise they can't get a gig. Or else people just stay home and listen to those same songs on the radio, and not have to worry about getting busted for DUI.

 

I don't know of any innovative original acts in my town that are really packing the clubs and creating a buzz. People just don't want to take a chance on anything unfamiliar. I can't necessarily blame them because a lot of the bands at the showcase clubs suck. But some don't, and people still won't go out and see them unless they're "established" - and how does anyone get established if no one will go out to clubs and see somebody new? So the only profitable clubs are the ones booking cover bands that play the same old Clear Channel set lists, meanwhile there are quite a few great original bands that nobody goes to see, and the original showcase clubs are only making money by a combination of booking established national acts, and selling drugs in back of the club. And even a lot of national acts that could usually be counted on to make money even a few years ago, aren't doing so well anymore.

 

I'm sure this will change eventually, but that's the state of affairs at the moment.

[Jimbroni]

curious? who's making fun of the Jamband circuit?

Seems to building alot steam as far as I can see. Alot of old heroes are seeing it too. Which is why Steve Winwoood, Willie Nelson, The Wailers, BB King, Allman Bro's, etc. are getting involved with it.

 

Bonnaroo isn't necessarily a one time event.

 

Go to Jambase.com or Relix.com to find a barrage of Bonnaroo type events like Hookahville, 10,000 Lakes, Fess jazztival, Telluride, Merlfest. The scene is kinda of snowballing right now. I hope it don't get out of hand and kill itself.

[BP3]

I've been involved with Bonnaroo all three years and I'd say that a large part of it's success is the diversity and the fact that almost all the acts can play well live. No recorded background vocals, loops. No focus on dancing. Simply musicians playing their songs live.

 

It's what made the bands in years past succeed and have some longevity. Maybe music will survive the corporate crap that has been a cancer for so long.

[Steve LeBlanc]

er, I should have said used to make fun of

 

I just remember a conversation on these bbs a long while back...Chip McDonald (I think it was him) was arguing that the JamBand scene would be the next big avenue for music business (profit). Quite a few posters shot it down as ludicrous...saying the jamband scene was a post-GratefulDead fad that would fade away.

 

well whattadya know...Chip was not only onto something...I think the next year or two will prove he was dead-on (pun not intended )...not only is the jamband scene continuing to grow and become more than just stinky jamhippys but live music in general is becoming the launchpad for artists as opposed to radio/TV (clear channel)

 

The music is more diverse, the culture is more diverse (more black rock artists and other colorful combinations of musicians)...hopefully it will keep going and keep getting better. Unfortunately, something will ruin it eventually but if we're lucky a lot more good things will happen there before that happens

[Bbach1]

Originally posted by dougsthang':

They should follow Coca-Cola's example, this year's tour could have been billed "New" Lollapalooza...then when it sucked and failed the following summer come out with "Classic" Lollapalooza featuring Metallica, Beastie Boys, a reunited NWA, Audio Slave, and Hole

Who??

[Dan South]

The kids are all too busy playing Grand Theft Auto and Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell. Who has time for live music?

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by TinderArts:

I've been involved with Bonnaroo all three years and I'd say that a large part of it's success is the diversity and the fact that almost all the acts can play well live. No recorded background vocals, loops. No focus on dancing. Simply musicians playing their songs live.

 

It's what made the bands in years past succeed and have some longevity. Maybe music will survive the corporate crap that has been a cancer for so long.

Doh! I forgot all about your involvement with Bonnaroo and failed to try and hook up with you this year, Tinder!

 

Well... maybe next year.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Stephen LeBlanc:

er, I should have said used to make fun of

 

I just remember a conversation on these bbs a long while back...Chip McDonald (I think it was him) was arguing that the JamBand scene would be the next big avenue for music business (profit). Quite a few posters shot it down as ludicrous...saying the jamband scene was a post-GratefulDead fad that would fade away.

 

well whattadya know...Chip was not only onto something...I think the next year or two will prove he was dead-on (pun not intended )...not only is the jamband scene continuing to grow and become more than just stinky jamhippys but live music in general is becoming the launchpad for artists as opposed to radio/TV (clear channel)

Yeah I think (and hope) you're right about live music having to re-invent the scene because recorded music sure ain't doing it.

 

And props to the jamband scene, I think it's great that more people are creating a scene outside the normal club/bar thing, which is what's needed I think. And I always admired the hell out of the Grateful Dead's business model. I wish I could be more supportive of that scene in general but musically, it just ain't my thing unfortunately.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Originally posted by Stephen LeBlanc:

er, I should have said used to make fun of

 

I just remember a conversation on these bbs a long while back...Chip McDonald (I think it was him) was arguing that the JamBand scene would be the next big avenue for music business (profit). Quite a few posters shot it down as ludicrous...saying the jamband scene was a post-GratefulDead fad that would fade away.

 

well whattadya know...Chip was not only onto something...I think the next year or two will prove he was dead-on (pun not intended )...not only is the jamband scene continuing to grow and become more than just stinky jamhippys but live music in general is becoming the launchpad for artists as opposed to radio/TV (clear channel)

Yeah I think (and hope) you're right about live music having to re-invent the scene because recorded music sure ain't doing it.

 

And props to the jamband scene, I think it's great that more people are creating a scene outside the normal club/bar thing, which is what's needed I think. And I always admired the hell out of the Grateful Dead's business model. I wish I could be more supportive of that scene in general but musically, it just ain't my thing unfortunately.

I love the Grateful Dead now that Jerry's gone and I can sample the best of it all and ignore all the wretched ways things got to be in the 90s... I have a lot of friends who are into the whole Bonaroo/jamband thing, and you know, it really leaves a tremendous amount to be desired as far as soul, songwriting, other basic things go. Flame on, folks. I'm very alienated by it all- but a goodly bit less than I am alienated by Lollapalooza, etc.

 

I do know, that you can score some killer reefer and mushrooms and all that- that's got to be a major attraction. It's not an ugly drunken speedfreak scene from what I understand- got to like that much. And I'm sure there are some great acts, even if I've never heard any, and I hear quite a lot of that stuff around. To my heart and mind, it doesn't have the deep sad tender understanding of what it's like to be outside of it all that the *best* of the Grateful Dead had. The smugness though seems to be in effect...

 

I think that scene could use a major kick in the pants as far as soul, songwriting, etc., and I encourage Lee and anybody else sturdy enough of spirit to take it on, to take it on.

[dougsthang]

Lollapalooza today is like the second Woodstock. A scene for all the wrong reasons. The risk takers set the stage at the first events then once it becomes successful the corporate world comes in a milks it dry and moves onto the next thing.

 

The Jamscene is just a nicely packaged name for music that's been around for a long time...heck Zeppelin and Cream were "jam" bands..taking songs and stretching them into pieces unto themselves.

[Steve LeBlanc]

I think that scene could use a major kick in the pants as far as soul, songwriting, etc., and I encourage Lee and anybody else sturdy enough of spirit to take it on, to take it on.

yep...most of the bands are pretty lukewarm, can't say many do much for me personally....just saying that the scene is getting better and the music is too. point being that it didn't fizzle or stagnate...it's alive and at the rate it's going just might change music for the better

 

of course, other scenes are happening too, I honestly don't have a whole lot of hope but I've got to believe things will get better

[mound]

It's not an ugly drunken speedfreak scene from what I understand- got to like that much

Unfortunately, it is becoming just that more and more. Just go to any Phish show now and compare it to what it was 15 years ago as far as the lot scene and who is clearly not there for the music.. Any of those touring jambands, that speedfreak/don't care about the music/just want to party or make money contingency is showing itself more and more. Trey (Phish guitar/lead) even mentioned that recently on his Charlie Rose interview, said something to the effect that he doesn't like it that it seems a Phish show is becomming more of an excuse for people to congregate in a given city and party rather than a gathering to experience unique and powerful music. (I say, um, Trey, have you been hiding under a rock for the last 5 or 6 years?? DUH?!)

 

I grew up musically on the whole jam scene (well, after I grew out of my skateboarding thrash metal phase) - first concert was Jerry Garcia Band, 2nd was Phish, 80 or so phish shows and a whole lotta other shows later, here I am now. My own music and my own life have become more important, and I'm tiring of the jam scene to a certain extent - well, not the scene itself, so much as the music.. I swear if I see another boring 2 chord hippie band with crappy lyrics label themselves as "a unique blend of jazz, funk, fusion, blues, bluegrass electronica.... genra hoppping mid-song... etc.." I'm going to puke. Much of it is becoming shoddy regurgitations of the same old crap. The soulfull sonwriting element is surely missing, as was pointed out. Even Phish was guilty of lack of soul in songwriting, fortunately their compositional and performance chops more than made up for it.

 

But, as irritating as most of it is starting to get (most, not all) - it is still infinitely better than all of the trash dumped on us by Clear Channel et-all.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Mound- man am I sorry to hear that, from what I understand the Dead scene was getting very much that way towards the end... what a fucking shame Jerry couldn't beat his addiction, it would have meant a lot to a lot of lives.

 

Stephen- yeah, I have hope too, and my hope is that for real SOUL is going to manifest itself in such places, and it will bring out the best in people. Only, I don't think it will be about big big scenes, but people appreciating and nurturing the positive parts of their local scenes more...

 

Lee! You are needed!

[Frost]

what a fucking shame Jerry couldn't beat his addiction, it would have meant a lot to a lot of lives.

Actually, he was reputed clean for quite some time previous to his death. He died of a heart attack.

 

Frost

[Frost]

what a fucking shame Jerry couldn't beat his addiction, it would have meant a lot to a lot of lives.

Actually, he was reputed clean for quite some time previous to his death. He died of a heart attack.

 

Frost

[dougsthang]

He did die of heart complications but he had begun to chip again and it was part of the internal problems with the band. He was actually checking back into rehab when he finally wore himself out.

[mound]

yeah, I was under the impression that Jerry had cleaned up as well.

[schmee]

the dead model is always going to be around, and the momentum will always get the better of itself in the end. one of the things that kept the dead model working so well for so damned long was that much of the music itself was like a guidebook to preventing that momentum from inevitable self-destruction. the family element learned a lot over the years and management got very good at keeping things in check and preventing disasters before the materialized.

 

the jamband scene is becoming less of a dead-rehash and really finding its own norms in other staid genres, eg the bluegrass revival - hell i live in a deadhead land (one of several around the country) and yet most of the folks around here are looking for bluegrass, specifically, not "jamband" acts/festivals/etc.

 

until some new movements come along with their own unique applications (eg hip hop clubs of the 90s, or dead-like parking lot scenes, x-based raves, or whatever other mechanics that have worked over the years), then all we have are regurgitations of dynamics we know to work.

 

the corporate end promoting their summer festivals will never achieve the kind of communal celebrations that things like the jamband scene can consistently pull off, even after jerry's death - because those festivals have no communal base to start with. the only way those things will work is in glorious one-offs like the old US festivals of 80s southern california.

 

lalapalooza worked for a few years when it had some kind of basis to work from, when in the hey day of its central acts were still functioning, fresh and exciting. now it's associated with a dated form that doesn't appeal as widely and again seriously lacks any kind of community, or communal ties, among it's various flavors.

 

the dead established a long reputation of introducing new talented acts that were nothing like the dead themselves (the genre, the style, or anything) by having new acts perform before the shows every weekend all over the world, it's no wonder the jamband scene continues this tradition, that crowd was schooled with that expectation and to not hover on a particular kind of thing. they are very open minded, while they'll still fall back on their standards for the most part as consumers. so when the dirty dozen brass band shows up they appreciate what they hear, but they're still there to see the dead or phish or mule or whatever.

 

this is rare in a "scene" - from jazz to grunge to hip hop to punk to ravers to beer swilling classic rock barflys, usually the audience are there to experience one thing, and one thing only.

 

just like nature, this kind of diversification of expectations brings strength. it's when it lacks that kind of diversification that elements of the jam band scene fall apart, eg phish, or even the dead in the 90s.

 

hell the 60s/70s rock thing fell apart from the same essential problem. started out as diverse collections of sounds, eg woodstock, and ended up becoming a bunch of kids tripping out expecting the same thing, over and over, eg what happened to jimi.

 

and thus the same thing happens to every genre.

[Tedly Nightshade]

If Jerry ever got clean, it was too little, too late! He stopped putting his heart into the Dead after a while, and got real heavy into acoustic stuff with Grisman- which I can understand, only it would have been far better to pull the plug on the Dead than to let it become what it became towards the end there.

 

I think it's very cool that folks are getting into bluegrass- that's for real community stuff, potentially. I wonder how it could escape from a traditionalist rigid form while keeping the deep deep roots that make it so real. I don't play bluegrass myself, except maybe in slow motion, but I find some serious grounding and connection there- what it might really mean to be an American, and things like that make me aware that I'm as American as they come, and god fuck the government.

 

That kind of thing gives me hope, indeed.

[Jimbroni]

I think some of you guys, who labeling the jam scene as dead head follow up bands are somewhat off the mark. I'm seeing incredible amounts of collaboration going on at these things. They are learning and expanding constantly, Anything but lukewarm, you can hear anything from salsa, to hard rockin, to jazz, to primus, to yes the Dead. Guys sitting in with each other and lettin it all hang out. Its like a traveling circus but Its reminiscent of the Bebop scene in New York in 50's. Granted they're not at that caliper of musicianship, but the spirit is there. These guys are jammin and learnin off each other. And to Stephen's point they are expanding who's included. I mean to see The Roots, Gillian Welch, The Bad Plus, Los Lobos, Erin Mckeon, MMW, Primus, Steve Winwood, The Dead, and all the members of Phish sitting in with whoever is great.

I guess maybe the difference is jammers tend to focus on the live content more than the recorded content. But thats even changing, as more bands are gettin involved in the movement. As for Lollapalooza, I think they chose a poor line up. I would like to see Flaming Lips and Sonic Youth.

Sonic Youth rocked when they opened for Iggy Pop last year.

[dougsthang]

Yah, I have to agree with you on that one. "Old and In The Way" was some of Jerry's best work. Dawg music..

[Tedly Nightshade]

I'm all for cross-pollination! I don't mean to lean too hard on the Jerry thing (BTW, what well-digested garcia that Gillian Welch gitar cat puts forth- very nice), but the man had something going that these people need, and it's so seldom represented by those carrying around satchels full of vintage Dead tics.

 

Yes, let's hope something great comes of it all!

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:

Lee! You are needed!

Well thanks for the vote of confidence Ted , that means a lot to me, and we're trying. As you know, it ain't easy.