Jim Alfredson Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 INTRODUCTION One of my dreams as a kid was to own a Prophet 5. The sound of that synthesizer was so iconic and pervasive, it deeply ingrained itself into my head from an early age. So much of the music I grew up with featured it extensively, including Genesis, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, Tangerine Dream, Thomas Dolby, Pink Floyd, and so many more. In the year 2000, I stumbled across a Prophet 10 in the back of a used music store in Ann Arbor. It was mostly working and they were asking $1200. At the time I was so far into my study of jazz organ that I hadn"t thought about synthesizers in years. So I passed it up. To this day it is one of my biggest gear regrets. After my father passed in 2008, my love of synthesizers was re-kindled because of his influence which sparked my interest as a child. And so my lust for the classic polysynths of yesteryear was revived as well. When Sequential announced the reissue of the Prophet 5 and Prophet 10, known as the Rev 4, I was absolutely ecstatic and knew that I had to own one no matter what. I am now the proud owner of a Sequential Prophet 10 Rev 4 and it is everything I dreamed it would be. THE SOUND IS BACK! Let"s get this out of the way right now: The Rev 4 is the real deal. It has that sound that we all know and love. It is every bit the Prophet that the Rev 1, 2, and 3 are. It even comes loaded with the original presets from the vintage Prophet 5 models. But as Dave Smith is wont to do, he added some welcome improvements. These include the VINTAGE knob, USB connectivity, extensive MIDI, a headphone output, 400 presets (200 factory and 200 user), and some exciting upgrades to the filters and keybed. We"ll touch on those in a minute. First, let"s do a quick overview of the architecture. OSCILLATORS The Prophet 5/10 has two oscillators per voice. OSCILLATOR A can be sawtooth, square, or both and the square has variable pulse width. OSCILLATOR B can be sawtooth, square with variable PWM, or triangle in any combination of those three. It can also be switched to LO FREQ, which turns it into an LFO. Keyboard tracking can be turned off via the KEYBOARD button, which is useful in LFO mode or for drones. And finally OSCILLATOR A can be hard-synced to OSCILLATOR B. We all know that famous hard-sync sound! Each oscillator has a FREQUENCY control, quantized to discrete pitches. OSCILLATOR B also has a FINE tuning control, useful for slight detuning and chorusing effects. The oscillator section is the same as a vintage Prophet. MIXER The level of each oscillator is set by individual knobs plus there is another knob to add NOISE which is standard white noise. Again, this is the same as the original Prophet. FILTER The filter section contains CUTOFF, RESONANCE, ENVELOPE AMOUNT, and the common ADSR four stage envelope generator. This is the same as the vintage Prophet. But we have two new switches in this section, one of which has added functionality and the other is a very useful addition. First is the KEYBOARD switch, which tailors the amount of scaling from the keyboard to the filter envelope. On the original Prophet this button was either on or off. If on, it engaged keyboard scaling to the filter so that higher notes would not be as affected by the filter as lower notes, meaning higher notes would not be as muffled. On the new Prophet, this switch has three states: OFF, HALF, or FULL. FULL replicates the behavior of the original scaling whereas HALF, as the name implies, is somewhere between FULL and OFF. In other words, not as much scaling and thus slightly duller high notes, but not as dull as OFF. The second switch is brand new to the Prophet world. The new REV switch changes the filter to either the SSI filter of the Rev 1 and Rev 2 Prophets or the Curtis filter of the Rev 3. The Rev 2 Prophets are highly regarded in some circles for the sound of those original SSM chips. Some people prefer the sound of those chips over the later Curtis chips. Now you don"t have to choose. You can have both! The chips in the Rev 4 are recreations of the original SSM 2040 filter chips, designed by Dave Rossum himself and called the SSI 2140. The Curtis chips are genuine CEM 3320 filter chips, designed by Doug Curtis and are the same as used in other products in the Sequential line like the Pro3 and Prophet 6 not used in any other product in the Sequential line. The difference between the two chips is subtle but can really be heard in sounds with loads of filter resonance. The SSI chips have a beautiful bite and sharpness whereas the Curtis chips are a bit more refined and tame. ADDENDUM TO THIS SECTION: Andrew McGowan from Sequential emailed me in regards to this section and added the following: "One thing that is not immediately obvious is that in addition to changing the filter type, the REV switch also changes the envelope shape to match the original SSM and Curtis envelope shapes. That"s very important if you want it to sound like a rev 1 or a rev 2." Tomorrow we'll get into the amplifier section, which has some welcome features that are not found in the vintage Prophets. 1 Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxcvbnm098 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 I can already tell this is going to be good........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synthetic Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Where did you buy it? I've been waiting over a month and a half for mine to ship and they're still saying another few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUSSIEKEYS Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Thanks for your review. Was enlightened to it from the keyboard forum. Just typing here to get the updates of your journey. As Frasier would say "im listening" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Do you know if the envelopes/LFO are software or hardware? Are the envelopes snappy enough to do percussion sounds? Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 Where did you buy it? I've been waiting over a month and a half for mine to ship and they're still saying another few weeks. I was lucky enough to score one direct from Sequential through my artist relations with them. Originally they told me they couldn't ship me one until January 2021 but then about 12 days later they told me one was ready, so I bought it! I wasn't expecting on outlaying the money for a few months, but I made it work. Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 Do you know if the envelopes/LFO are software or hardware? Are the envelopes snappy enough to do percussion sounds? I am 99% certain they are analog just like the original. You can get some good snare and 808 kicks out of it for sure. Not super snappy but definitely not bad. EDIT: I stand corrected. I asked Andrew McGowan at Sequential and he wrote: "The LFO and envelopes are digital. That"s how we"re able to change the envelope shapes when switching filters or monkey with the stability/timing/rates." Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marzzz Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I am waiting to check out the desktop module version Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 PART II In the second part of my deep dive, we continue to explore the controls across the spacious front panel. Let's pick up at the AMPLIFIER section. AMPLIFIER The amplifier section for the oscillators offers a four stage ADSR design just like the classic Prophet. But Sequential added some new features here as well. Just above the ADSR controls are two switches labeled VELOCITY and AFTERTOUCH. Gone is the old and unreliable non-velocity sensitive Pratt Reed keybed. In its place is a great feeling Fatar keybed with aftertouch and velocity. The two new buttons allow you to assign either the AMP section and/or FILTER to be velocity sensitive and to assign the FILTER and/or LFO to aftertouch. Just a button press and vibrato is controlled by aftertouch, for example. Nice! The depth of the aftertouch can be set using new controls via the GLOBALS button. Likewise the velocity response can be set there, too. More on that later. POLY-MOD One of the most famous features of the vintage Prophet was the Poly-Mod section. That section is the same on the Rev 4 including two knobs for each source (FILTER ENVELOPE and OSCILLATOR B) and three switches for the destinations (FREQUENCY A, PULSE WIDTH A, and FILTER). Our modern sensibilities may scoff as such a limited 'modulation matrix" but it is faithful to the original Prophet and is flexible enough to produce some very interesting sounds. I would"ve like to see a few more sources and destinations here to be honest but I understand why Sequential kept everything original. LFO The LFO section is different from the vintage Prophets in one regard; the addition of an INITIAL AMOUNT knob. This applies the modulation set in the WHEEL-MOD section to the sound continuously. In other words, if this knob is set to zero, any modulation in the WHEEL-MOD section will only be applied by using the mod wheel. When you begin turning this knob up, it begins applying that modulation to the sound continuously and the mod wheel adds more. WHEEL-MOD This section is identical to the vintage Prophets. A single knob mixes between two sources, the LFO or NOISE and the destinations include FREQ A, FREQ B, PW A, PW B, and FILTER. PROGRAMMER The final section is the PROGRAMMER section which is very similar to the vintage Prophets with the addition of a three digit LED display (instead of two) due to the increased patch memory available, and a multi-function GLOBALS switch for editing MIDI parameters, the aforementioned velocity and aftertouch response, pedal modes, potentiometer modes (relative, pass through, jump), transposing, microtunings, and bulk SYSEX program dumps. One quick note about the potentiometer modes: It appears there is a bug in the OS and these modes are currently non-functioning. Despite changing them, all potentiometers simply jump to their current position upon moving them. LET"S DO THE TIME WARP AGAIN I have yet to mention probably the most heralded feature of the Rev 4 other than the REV filter selector button itself; the VINTAGE knob! The VINTAGE knob is labeled from 4 to 1 clockwise. Setting it all the way to 4 means your Prophet acts like a Rev 4; tight envelopes, stable tuning, precise filters and envelopes, and a very modern yet still analog sound. Position 3 represents the Rev 3; still quite stable but with some random imperfections in the tuning, filter, and envelopes. Position 2 is the Rev 2; temperamental and a bit rough around the edges with envelopes not being the same across voices, filters a bit off from each other, and tuning a bit on the wonky side. And of course Position 1 is the Rev 1, unpredictable and wild, with individual note envelopes not starting or ending at the same, tuning sometimes wildly off per voice, the filter timbres different across voices, etc. It"s a lot like the SLOP feature in other Sequential products like the digital oscillator based Prophet 12, though Sequential is quick to declare in their literature that it is much more complex. Regardless, it adds progressively more randomness to the various components of each voice. It is a lot of fun to play with, especially on the bank of original Prophet patches starting at preset location 511. And since it is a knob, the amount is continuously variable. I tend to prefer setting it between 2 and 3 for the classic sounds (like the original bank) and somewhere between 3 and 4 for the new sounds. It adds just the right amount of unpredictability to keep things exciting and, for lack of a better term, analog. UNISON & CHORD MEMORY Another great new feature is the updated UNISON mode. When in UNISON mode, you can press and hold the UNISON button and use the GROUP SELECT and BANK SELECT buttons as decrement and increment controls (so labeled just above each button in a soft gray font) to increase or decrease the number of voices used. On my Prophet 10, for example, I can have a unison lead sound with all 10 voices! Furthermore, you can change the amount of detuning between the unisons by holding down the UNISON button and pressing the PROGRAM SELECT buttons, 1 through 8, each adding progressively more detuning. Also new in UNISON mode is CHORD MEMORY. Hold a chord on the keyboard and then press the UNISON button. Now single notes across the keyboard play that chord. On the Prophet 10 is it possible to memorize 10 note chords! To erase a chord from memory, turn off UNISON mode, hold a single note, and press UNISON again. These parameters are of course saved per patch. KEY PRIORITY You can set the key priority by pressing and holding the KEYBOARD button in the OSCILLATOR B section and choosing between four different modes via the GROUP SELECT and BANK SELECT buttons (which are, remember, your DEC and INC buttons respectively in these modes). Low note priority (LO) gives priority to the lowest note played. Low note retrigger (LOr) causes the envelopes to be retriggered with each keystroke. Last note priority (Las) gives priority to the last note played. Last note priority retrigger (LAr gives priority to the last note played and retriggers the envelopes with each keystroke. These modes are far more flexible than the vintage Prophets and are saved per patch. Here's a video detailing the added features of the Prophet 5/10 including the REV 1/2 & 3 filter switch and the VINTAGE KNOB. In tomorrow's installment, I'll discuss my impressions after playing the Prophet 10 for a week and programming my own sounds from scratch. [video:youtube] Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Great review Jim. Being digital does the LFO get up into the higher frequency range for audio rate mod? Does it have polyphonic glide? I"m also still curious whether there"s a noticeable difference between modulating the filter with the envelope directly vs thru the Poly mod. Especially simultaneously with other Polymod or LFO modulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 Great review Jim. Being digital does the LFO get up into the higher frequency range for audio rate mod? Yes, just barely. OSCILLATOR B set as an LFO does not. The main LFO does but not very high into the audio range. Does it have polyphonic glide? YES! And it's a lot of fun! I'll talk about that in tomorrow's installment. I"m also still curious whether there"s a noticeable difference between modulating the filter with the envelope directly vs thru the Poly mod. Especially simultaneously with other Polymod or LFO modulation. The modulation can be a greater amount via Poly Mod. That's the only difference I can detect. Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I"m also still curious whether there"s a noticeable difference between modulating the filter with the envelope directly vs thru the Poly mod. Especially simultaneously with other Polymod or LFO modulation. The modulation can be a greater amount via Poly Mod. That's the only difference I can detect. This is how I remember the original Prophet behaved. The filter envelope had a ceiling, and the poly-mod could add to that. Which makes perfect sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 I"m also still curious whether there"s a noticeable difference between modulating the filter with the envelope directly vs thru the Poly mod. Especially simultaneously with other Polymod or LFO modulation. The modulation can be a greater amount via Poly Mod. That's the only difference I can detect. This is how I remember the original Prophet behaved. The filter envelope had a ceiling, and the poly-mod could add to that. Which makes perfect sense to me. Ah, this makes sense now. Otherwise I couldn't figure why there would be 2 paths for the same modulation. Very cool about the poly glide. Never having owned one I spent more than a few minutes troubleshooting why the glide wasn't working on the Rev 2. Took a while before I got out the operation manual and discovered it was for mono only. Thanks Jim and Carlo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 19, 2020 Author Share Posted November 19, 2020 Here's another video comparing the filters. [video:youtube] Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 PART III - MORE FEATURES AND CONCLUSION KEY PRIORITY You can set the key priority by pressing and holding the KEYBOARD button in the OSCILLATOR B section and choosing between four different modes via the GROUP SELECT and BANK SELECT buttons (which are, remember, your DEC and INC buttons respectively in these modes). Low note priority (LO) gives priority to the lowest note played. Low note retrigger (LOr) causes the envelopes to be retriggered with each keystroke. Last note priority (Las) gives priority to the last note played. Last note priority retrigger (LAr gives priority to the last note played and retriggers the envelopes with each keystroke. These modes are far more flexible than the vintage Prophets and are saved per patch. GLIDE RATE Another control that looks similar to the vintage Prophet 5 is the GLIDE RATE knob. In unison mode, this does just what you"d expect; it adds portamento between notes. Interestingly the portamento always triggers. On most synths that I have experience with, if you play in a legato manner the portamento or glide will trigger but if you play more staccato, with just a bit of space between the notes (or to use music notation terminology, there are no 'ties" between notes) then the portamento will not trigger. Not so on the Prophet 5/10 rev 4. The portamento always triggers, regardless of how little or how much space you leave between notes. In my opinion this is not preferable and I do hope an option to change this behavior is in an upcoming OS update. Changing the triggering of the portamento based on playing technique allows for much more expressive playing. That said, the Prophet 5/10 rev4 has a trick up its sleeve that hasn"t garnered much attention in the literature, videos, and articles I"ve seen so far. And that is the fact that it has polyphonic portamento! Similar to the Oberheim OB8, with the GLIDE RATE knob turned up, even notes in chords will slide up or down in pitch, depending on the note last triggered and how many voices are active. On the Prophet 10, with it"s 10 note polyphony, this creates some very intriguing and sometimes seemingly random behavior. For example, if you play a five note chord with an octave in the bass and a triad in the upper part of the keyboard, you may hear the notes sliding into position the first time you play it, depending on what was played before. But if you play those same notes again, you will not hear the polyphonic portamento. This is because, like the vintage Prophet 5, the rev 4 allocates the same voice to the same note if that note is repeated. But as soon as you change the chord you"ll hear that portamento⦠that is if there are not enough voices available to sound the chord you just played. On the Prophet 10, for example, I can play two five note chords in a row without hearing the glide kick in because two times five is ten. But if I play a five note chord and then a six note chord, I"ll hear the glide on that sixth note. It"s a fascinating and really cool effect! IN USE The Prophet 5/10 Rev 4 is a joy to play. The Fatar keybed is so much better than the old Pratt Reed mechanism. And the addition of velocity sensitivity and aftertouch adds another level to the experience. One thing I absolutely love about the Prophet is the immediacy of the front panel. It"s so easy to quickly dial up a sound or edit a preset to your liking. Within minutes of plugging it in I had already made a fantastic lead sound reminiscent of the SID chip in the Commodore 64, a big juicy Moog style bass, two beautiful lush pads, and a Lyle Mays-esque Oberheim lead. I am a huge fan of Dave Smith and Sequential"s products. My first DSI product was the Mopho Keyboard, which I still enjoy using. I had a Prophet 08 for a brief moment but didn"t really connect with that particular iteration. It wasn"t bad; it just didn"t really offer anything that my Andromeda couldn"t do. My next DSI product was the Prophet 12, which I absolutely adore. It is one of my favorite synthesizers of all time thanks to the amazing versatility of the waveform set, the filters, the onboard saturation and distortion effects, and the ease of programmability. I also own a Pro2 which I wanted ever since playing it at NAMM in 2014. It has quickly become my go-to analog monosynth. Each of those products sound great but there is something really special about the reissued Prophet 5/10. It is that inescapable rawness to the oscillators, the powerful sound of unfettered analog voltage coming through the output jack, that just defines excitement. We live in an age of numerous emulations of every instrument ever conceived and some of them are incredible, like the u-he Repro-5 plugin. But as many of you know, there ain"t nothing like the real thing. I love the convenience of modern technology. As a Hammond organist I am thankful to use my 65lbs Hammond XK5 system rather than hauling a real 300+ lbs tonewheel Hammond to gigs. I am grateful that I can use my 29lbs Kurzweil PC4 for pianos, Rhodes, Wurlitzer EP, clavs, strings, and yes even virtual analog sounds rather than carrying nine keyboards to cover those sounds. Digital convenience is a wonderful thing. Sometimes you need the real deal, though. Sometimes all that complexity and power can overshadow the sound. This is why the Prophet 5/10 Rev 4 is so incredible to me as a first time true analog Prophet owner. The sound is there. It is unmistakable and powerful and raw. Turning it on for the first time and playing the very first patch was as indelible and life changing as the first time I played a real Hammond organ. It"s THAT sound. Is it a replacement for products like the Prophet 6? I don"t think so. The Prophet 6 has many more modern features like stereo output, dual effects, sequencing, and more. The P6 is a fantastic keyboard that might be more flexible for the live musician than the Prophet 5/10 Rev 4. The Prophet 5/10 Rev 4 is also quite large. It"s the same size as the vintage models yet thankfully weighs significantly less. But it still takes up a lot of real estate on stage. I do wish that the Prophet 10 had the ability to layer or split sounds. The reasoning behind not including this feature is probably because the new Prophet 10 is a realization of Dave Smith"s original vision. He intended the Prophet 10 to be a Prophet 5 with five more voices and indeed Sequential made a handful of them. But they were plagued by overheating and reliability issues. And so eventually Sequential introduced the two manual Prophet 10 that we"re all familiar with, which is essentially two Prophet 5"s in a single case. It seems to me that the new Prophet 10 Rev 4 is the design Dave Smith originally intended. But layering and splitting sounds would be nice. Perhaps layering / splitting could be added in an OS update. Or maybe it is simply beyond the hardware. Time will tell. I would also like the ability to limit the voices of the 10 to that of the 5 to get some of those classic voice-stealing effects, especially when using polyphonic glide. Limitations often breed creativity and sometimes the sound of a pad stealing voices is just what is needed. That"s one reason I like the paraphonic nature of the Pro2 and its four voices. CONCLUSION People have been asking Dave Smith to remake the Prophet 5 for decades. I honestly didn"t think he ever would as he tends to only look forward and not backward. Perhaps his change of heart means that a new reissue of the Pro One is finally on the horizon. I would love to see that, as much as I adore the Pro2 and the new Pro3 as well. A simple reissue of the Pro One with some of the same smart updates as the Prophet 5/10 Rev 4 would be very welcome. The Prophet 5/10 Rev is truly a dream machine, with the sound, sexiness, and cachet of the original but some new 21st century bling. It will definitely take you back to the 80s and the Golden Age of poly synths with it"s styling and tone, but I can"t wait to see what we musicians will do with it today. [video:youtube] Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoB3 Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Oh no! Looks and sounds so well done. Now turning to 'must'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 Here's another video comparing the filters. Hmmm... an interesting comparison but tbh if that button was labeled "number of poles" instead of "rev" I'd believe it on most of those sounds. Up until that last brass sound with AT which really sounds like a completely different filter to me. That's when it occurred to me that just switching filters and keeping the cutoff and resonance the same only highlights the differences at one particular point in the filter response. To me this approach doesn't best reflect the differences in the character of the filters. It's like changing between a square wave and sawtooth and leaving all else the same. This isn't meant to be critical of your demo Jim- just to say I think there's a whole lot more to the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Here's another video comparing the filters. Hmmm... an interesting comparison but tbh if that button was labeled "number of poles" instead of "rev" I'd believe it on most of those sounds. Up until that last brass sound with AT which really sounds like a completely different filter to me. That's when it occurred to me that just switching filters and keeping the cutoff and resonance the same only highlights the differences at one particular point in the filter response. To me this approach doesn't best reflect the differences in the character of the filters. It's like changing between a square wave and sawtooth and leaving all else the same. This isn't meant to be critical of your demo Jim- just to say I think there's a whole lot more to the story. Yes, I had the same thought. Perhaps I'll do some filter sweep comparisons. But there is a definite tonal difference between the filters as well. The SSM seem to cut the low-end a bit more and emphasize the midrange. Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrythek Posted November 20, 2020 Share Posted November 20, 2020 I'd also be curious about how resonance behaves with each filter... that will usually be different as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 20, 2020 Author Share Posted November 20, 2020 Andrew McGowan from Sequential emailed me and gave me some additional information. I made some slight changes to the original post to reflect this new information. Here's what he wrote: "We don"t use the CEM 3320 in any of our other synths. The Curtis chip used in everything up to the Pro 2 is basically a CEM 3397 'voice on a chip.' Even in something like the Prophet 12 where we only use the filter. With the Pro 2 we used discrete filters for the first time (SEM and 2040-inspired). Those designs are also used in the OB-6, Prophet-6, and Pro 3 (which also has a discrete ladder filter). So there are no Curtis filters in the P6 or P3. The Rev2, which is essentially an updated Prophet "08, uses the Curtis chip. And the Prophet X/XL uses the SSI 2144, Dave Rossum"s recreation of the SSM 2044. I saw someone asking about ranges for parameters. We didn"t monkey with any of those. They mimic, as closely as possible, the ranges of those controls on an original P5. As we quickly discovered, those ranges can vary pretty noticeably from one vintage P5 to another, so we picked what we felt were the ideal ranges. (Meaning ideal on the original instruments, not in the 'how would we like this to work if we could change it?' sense.) So the Cutoff knob still doesn"t fully open the filter, but it can be driven fully open by modulation. The LFO range is consistent with a vintage Prophet-5. The way different mod sources sum together is the same. The whole point was to make a Prophet-5 (or -10). The only obvious improvement to the signal path that I can think of (other than the greatly reduced noise floor) is that the P5"s god-awful noise source has been replaced by much better-sounding digital noise. One thing that is not immediately obvious is that in addition to changing the filter type, the REV switch also changes the envelope shape to match the original SSM and Curtis envelope shapes. That"s very important if you want it to sound like a rev 1 or a rev 2." Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 If it had at least ONE additional LFO,- may it be just only for vibrato and to be controlled by the mod-wheel and AT exclusively,- and in OSC-Sync mode, a MIDI CC pedal and/or CV pedal routing option to control the Sweep-OSC´s frequency alternately to the VCF envelope and/or PolyMod,- I were into the market for a Prophet 5 or 10. Just sayin´ because the 2nd Prophet 5 I owned, a rev3,- just had the CV-Pedal/OSC-Sync mod,- user on/off switchable via orig. push-button w/ LED but bypassing the Z80 processor routines. Nonetheless, in the end I sold both Prophets because I hated I had to move the modwheel always, even for a pulse-width modulation and then lost the vibrato. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tonewheel Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Nice review Jim! Thanks for covering this board. I am on the waiting list for a P10. Although it may not have all the bells and whistles that many synths today have, including the P6, it has such a warm and full sound, and for me, sound is king! I do wish they added the ability invert the envelopes like on the P6. UPDATE: Mine is on its way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted November 27, 2020 Author Share Posted November 27, 2020 UPDATE: Mine is on its way! Congrats! Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tonewheel Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Thanks Jim! Can't wait to play it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tonewheel Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Quick follow-up. The sound is truly amazing. Even just plugged into my monitors with no effects whatsoever, it sounds incredible. Every sound put a smile on my face, and the added updates (velocity, aftertouch, vintage knob, different filters), are really smart updates and appreciated. So much better than that the original J-wire keyboard. I used to borrow a friend's Prophet 5 back in college in the 80's with my band. You can believe the hype. It's the real deal! So happy I bought this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 I have yet to mention probably the most heralded feature of the Rev 4 other than the REV filter selector button itself; the VINTAGE knob! The VINTAGE knob is labeled from 4 to 1 clockwise. Setting it all the way to 4 means your Prophet acts like a Rev 4; tight envelopes, stable tuning, precise filters and envelopes, and a very modern yet still analog sound. Position 3 represents the Rev 3; still quite stable but with some random imperfections in the tuning, filter, and envelopes. Position 2 is the Rev 2; temperamental and a bit rough around the edges with envelopes not being the same across voices, filters a bit off from each other, and tuning a bit on the wonky side. And of course Position 1 is the Rev 1, unpredictable and wild, with individual note envelopes not starting or ending at the same, tuning sometimes wildly off per voice, the filter timbres different across voices, etc. It"s a lot like the SLOP feature in other Sequential products like the digital oscillator based Prophet 12, though Sequential is quick to declare in their literature that it is much more complex. Regardless, it adds progressively more randomness to the various components of each voice. It is a lot of fun to play with, especially on the bank of original Prophet patches starting at preset location 511. And since it is a knob, the amount is continuously variable. I tend to prefer setting it between 2 and 3 for the classic sounds (like the original bank) and somewhere between 3 and 4 for the new sounds. It adds just the right amount of unpredictability to keep things exciting and, for lack of a better term, analog. I got to spend a bit of time with the P10 earlier today. I think the vintage knob is somewhat overblown. It does exactly what you described above, but I didn't think it really made it sound or play "vintage". More like it's due for a calibration and somewhat artificial. Admittedly I didn't deep dive the envelope effects but I think the "slop" tuning component sounded almost artificial and unnecessary. More to point when you calibrate a vintage board and it's well tuned it doesn't lose what I think of as it's vintage sound. I worked the vintage knob in combination with the rev 1/2, 3 filter button. I'm sure it will thrill many but for someone not looking to recreate a specific sound or that past "magical" experience I'd mostly keep it set between 3 and 4. For someone looking to recreate the rev 2 experience that really knows and remembers what a Rev 2 sounds like, they may be disappointed. Overall however it did sound quite wonderful. And despite my clinical and maybe pompous comments regarding the polymod capability it really does bring the sound alive. In no time I got some wonderful audio rate modulation happening and ...WOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Coda Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 ... the vintage knob is somewhat overblown. ... vintage sound . "magical" experience! Wonderful words,- but what do they mean ??? WHEN did keyboardplayers start thinking about "vintage sound" while fearing for their job when not being able to provide or using it ? What´s the damn "glory" of that Prophet 5, I owned 2 before I sold ´em ? I didn´t sell because they were great,- rev2 and rev 3. It was what was possible in the past and technology moved on,- also in "analog" times. SCI Prophet 5 is still a "rudimentary architecture" synth,- similar to OBX, while OBX sounded way "meatier" than any Prophet 5. That said, I ignored OBX for Prophet 5 because the latter was the for me better tool to rent for the recording session we did. For the record: My generation session artists were able to rent their gear for the sessions while getting payed as keyboardplayers in addition. That had some influence on what to use. The main goal of the Prophet 5 was it offered more than 4 voices and a better preset memory system than any of the Oberheims at that time and for a lower price. And it got a MIDI retrofit earlier than any Oberheim. The Oberheim 4-voice didn´t get any factory upgrade at all and when I bought OB-8 in addition to Prophet 5 it didn´t offer MIDI. I bought MIDI as an upgrade and together w/ the "page 2" firmware upgrade features while the physical MIDI ports came as wooden-side-panel replacement. For some period of time, Prophet 5 was the best package you could buy, but not today. A.C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 I just offered up my observations here based on what I heard yesterday. Having recently refurbed a rev2 I thought I might compare the new and old. What does 'vintage sound' mean? Most of the time I have no idea. But in this case I remember the old sounding different and applied the term vintage. More importantly I attempted to identify what may contribute to that difference. Figured this may be of interest to those considering purchase. Otherwise I"m with you AC and couldn"t care less about 'vintage'. I just want awesome sound and to enjoy the experience getting there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 The VINTAGE knob is best used in moderation. It does add instability to the filters, envelopes, and tuning which does create a more 'vintage vibe'. As for who would want a Prophet 5/10 these days considering it's limitations? Well, they are selling out of them, so... Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Tonewheel Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Completely agree Jim! Let me just say, as the owner of a pre-serial number 159 Prophet 10, I just got the upgraded motherboard back last night and spent the night and today making sounds. Even just plugged into my audio interface through my monitors (Adam A7Xs, so they show everything), this things sounds immense. I haven't even hooked up my Strymon Big Sky yet because it sounds so awesome even without any effects. Now I love Omnisphere, but this just has a presence and, for lack of a better word, power, that the soft synths can't touch. Needless to say, the $ I spent on uHe Repro 5 is down the drain. I had a Prophet 6 for awhile, which is a great synth, but for me, it just didn't have that mojo that people were talking about. This keyboard really makes you want to play, which is the feeling I get from my Hammond, a really good acoustic grand, my Minimoog, and my clav. It's just fun and inspirational and I haven't played a new synth in a very long time that made me feel that way. I should preface all of this with my own Prophet 5 story. In college (University of Georgia) in 1983, I was in a cover band. My band had landed a pretty big gig and to make the occasion special, I though I would bring out the big guns and borrow my friend's Prophet 5. I loaded up my sounds (and programmed a few requests of his as payment) in the dorm, and off I went. Well, it was an outdoor gig in the late spring in Georgia. It was 93oF with 100% humidity that day. The stage was in the bright sunlight. His Prophet 5 was a rev 2 and it was not happy to be out of the air conditioning. As I hit the first note in the synth part of "Just What I Needed", the Prophet howled about 3 octaves +/- in some new microtonal scale tuning off key. Not good. I spent most of the rest of the gig hitting the Tune button hoping it would come back in line, but no luck. Fortunately, my Juno-6 (with its DCOs) and my Moog Rogue (which could operate anywhere from Mercury to Jupiter), saved the day. The whole point of the story is that as Jim says, judicious use of the vintage knob is the key (not that is has that dramatic an effect, but you get the point). All I can say is that to me, this synth was totally worth the spend. Absolutely magical sound like the original with the right amount of modern upgrades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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