Santana Rips Media for Ignoring Elvin Jones

[Anderton]

http://www.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=41176&cat=Entertainment

 

Clearly, Carlos should spend more time hanging out here, where you get the REAL news!

[ernest828]

I agree with Mr. Santana. Theres so much shit that is getting too much attention and then you have a true musician passing and he got very little, too little IMO.

 

I get most of my news here actually.

Ernest

[_Sweet Willie_]

Fascinating.

 

I was the one who informed a drummer friend of mine who is a huge fan of Elvin's, and had known him personally. He hadn't heard thru the "regular" media, and I'd heard both here and thru a local college radio station.

 

My friend was devastated, and also was amazed that he hadn't heard the news before me.

 

Elvin contributed so much to music, and jazz music in particular. While it is astonishing that it didn't grab more attention, it does seem that jazz artists score less attention anyway these days.

 

Thanks, Craig, for that tidbit.

 

Peace.

--SW

[BP3]

I agree that Elvin deserved and earned much more attention than he received. I'll have to disagree with Santana that this is due to racism. You'd have heard plenty if it were 50 cent, J-Lo, Puffy, OJ Simpson, Kobe or any of the other "celebrities" that our media loves to shove in front of us. It seems that youth or criminal activity entitle some to attention when a lifetime of groundbreaking innovation in music doesn't.

 

May Elvin continue to RIP.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

I will commend Rolling Stone, surprisingly, for having done a small but good 1/4 article on Elvin's passing in the most recent issue.

 

- Jeff

[LiveMusic]

To say it's racism is utter bullshit, absolute bullshit. I've never heard of him. But I don't listen to jazz. Probably 99% of the public hasn't heard of him. I'm sure he was great but to say it's racism seems silly.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Elvin Jones is an absolute musical legend. A true genius.

 

While I agree that it's probably not racism per se, I will comment that it's sad that entire genres of music are ignored by much of society. There's so much good stuff out there, so much you can allow yourself to be influenced by... again, it's a pity that more people hadn't heard of Elvin, which would merit the added coverage by the media.

 

But in a world where the majority of folks haven't ever listened to Miles, Coltrane and the other gods of jazz, I'm not surprised in the least that Elvin's passing was little more than a sidenote at best.

 

- Jeff

[Jode]

Nah, it's not racism. It is racism's fellow traveler, ignorance. Elvin, you see, never played on any top 40 hits or starred in a reality TV show. Therefore, his death is insignificant, right? I'll bet you won't hear a peep in the press about a white genius like Joe Morello when he passes, either. Or maybe even playing on hits isn't enough; even Steve Gadd may die unnoticed.

 

But watch what happens when you cancel Friends. Oh, my God.

[Alndln]

Originally posted by Jode:

Nah, it's not racism. It is racism's fellow traveler, ignorance.

Agreed.I think Carlos misdirected his anger.Unforunately,we live in a society that ignores genuine talent more and more as time goes by which I blame in part as a byproduct on how capitilisim deals with art in general.I'm sure Elvin's passing got much more notice in Europe/Japan ect.,and while those country's are somewhat capatilists as well,the emphasis isn't solely on product.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

A great observation.

 

This level of ignorance isn't really by choice. I think a lot of people would respect the world's best musicians if they were promoted at the same degree as pop stars.

 

But by the nature of things, that doesn't happen, and won't. Jazz and classical are complex art forms, and perhaps the majority of people wouldn't be able to get into it even if they did have it placed before them. I don't know. We'll never know, probably.

 

The last time jazz courted the mainstream was in the fusion boom of the mid-Seventies, and I don't see that happening again any time soon.

 

- Jeff

[ernest828]

Nah, it's not racism. It is racism's fellow traveler, ignorance. Elvin, you see, never played on any top 40 hits or starred in a reality TV show. Therefore, his death is insignificant, right? I'll bet you won't hear a peep in the press about a white genius like Joe Morello when he passes, either. Or maybe even playing on hits isn't enough; even Steve Gadd may die unnoticed.

But watch what happens when you cancel Friends. Oh, my God.

Great point. Now I know what my album and band need...good looking guys and chicks with tits.

Ernest

[felix.]

So why didn't Santana collaborate with Elvin, rather than riding the coattails of numerous Pop Stars on his last two albums - all the way to the bank?

[RaGe]

I was glad to see Benny Golson featured in the latest Speilberg movie. Means nada, I know ...

[cerumen]

He's embarrased to live in this country?

Does that mean he'll be giving back all the grammy's and the millions he's received from this country?

What a dick!!!

I wonder if he'll be banned now from MTV like Belinda Carlisle?

[pauldil]

I'm sure Carlos was just venting due to a sense of loss, but I found it interesting that he would accuse others of racism then use the phrase "corny-ass white people" in the same breath.

 

He's right about Elvin being one of the greats, though!

 

Paul

[whitefang]

I remember Mitch Mitchell claiming Elvin was a huge influence. But to the core of the thread:

 

Jones was not a huge commercial celebrity. Sure, to you and me he was a giant, and his likes will not soon be seen again. But as was stated, if he were the plastic celebs like J-Ho and P. Diddy, it would have been bigger than warranted.

 

And let's add the paltry attention given to Brother Ray Charles' passing(Damn! I can't stop loving him!)in the wake of the conservative circle-jerk of Ronald Reagan's funeral. Ray's done more to bring people in this country together than FIVE Ronnies!

 

Whitefang

[nhcomp45aol.com]

Santana is a great guitarist but a pinhead. If it weren't for Greg Rolie there would be no Santana as we know it today. He want's to cry racism, Well look at your Spanish ancesters who were the first to bring black slaves to this country. No wonder Mike Shrieve won't play with him. King Shit thinks he has the right to put down all the white people who have been buying his albums for 35 years, Paul.

[Jode]

Yeah, Ray's death should have gotten more notice - especially after useless poots like Princess Diana get splashed all over, when dying was nearly the most interesting thing they ever did.

 

But come on, Whitefang, cut Reagan some slack. He was the president. When a president dies, it's a big deal. They'll probably make an even bigger deal when Clinton dies, and I'll keep my mouth shut, because he was the president, too.

 

Somehow I get the feeling that Carlos will get over his "embarassment" and stick around.

[Nawledge]

Originally posted by Jode:

Nah, it's not racism. It is racism's fellow traveler, ignorance. Elvin, you see, never played on any top 40 hits or starred in a reality TV show. Therefore, his death is insignificant, right? I'll bet you won't hear a peep in the press about a white genius like Joe Morello when he passes, either. Or maybe even playing on hits isn't enough; even Steve Gadd may die unnoticed.

 

But watch what happens when you cancel Friends. Oh, my God.

what a loss, all I can say is at least we have more alternative media outlets than back in the day.

 

Jode you're starting to scare me, i've seen two post of yours now that I totally agree with, I might have to pologize to you in the future for being a dick to you in the past.

 

hey you guys calling what santana said racism better be careful, I think he's friends with Bill Cosby, which means he can say anything he wants

[Tedster]

It's not so much a racist issue as it is about portraits of certain white guys...with names like Hamilton, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, Lincoln...etc. News stories about Princess Diana's death a few years ago brought a lot of portraits of dead presidents and founding fathers into the media's coffers. It's all about "lifestyles of the rich and entertaining"...tabloid shit. Which means it's all about the Benjamins.

 

See, Elvin Jones didn't knock up J-Lo. If he had, his funeral would have received wide publicity, because that stuff sells.

[FormerOceanwaySlave]

For those of you who think there was no racism in the press' treatment of Elvin Jones' passing I would ask you the following question: how prevalent do you think racism is in the US?

 

Because I think Devadip Carlos Santana was right. Elvin Jones was a jazz musician, and while that does mean that he was never as popular as whatever whitebread piece of shit that's masquerading as an "artist" on Clear Channel today, he did have a massive influence on all kinds of music. Elvin Jones was phenomenal, literally. If he had been white (which I grant you is a rather absurd counter-factual), I would bet that his death, to say nothing of his life, would have received much more widespread and deeper coverage.

 

On a more general note, racism thrives worldwide at least partly because of people who say that it doesn't exist.

 

Alan Tomlinson

[LiveMusic]

Originally posted by cerumen:

I wonder if he'll be banned now from MTV like Belinda Carlisle?

What'd she do?

[Phait]

""I'm really embarrassed for this nation, and for MTV and VH1 and Rolling Stone, because it was a very racist thing not to acknowledge this most important musician when he passed," Santana was quoted as saying in The New York Post.

 

"For them to play up Ozzy Osbourne and other corny-ass white people, but not Elvin, is demeaning and I'm really embarrassed to live in this country," he added. (ANI)"

 

I like Santana and well.. I never heard of this Elvin guy but I agree he should've been mentioned. But to say it is very racist, when Ray Charles was just all over the media recently? How well known was Elvin anyway?

[Gulliver]

Santana should turn on his (M)TV for a while and see all that "racist" thing going on over there.

He might become surprised... he-he.. hehehe..

[Hound Dog]

Another example of how serious racial accusations are often carelessly thrown around, sometimes by people who otherwise have our respect.

 

Also, what do you think Carlos felt he was going to "gain" or make better by chastising the media? Do you think he really believes the racial aspect of the situation, or has he just thrown it out there since he has probably seen it work for so many others?

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by FormerOceanwaySlave:

For those of you who think there was no racism in the press' treatment of Elvin Jones' passing I would ask you the following question: how prevalent do you think racism is in the US?

Entirely too prevalent. It gets slightly better with passing generations, which gives me a lot of hope. But it's still entirely prevalent.

 

That having been said, I still think this is more a matter of real jazz not crossing the consciousness of the American mainstream than blatant racism. In other words, my guess is that had Elvin been white and had the same level of accomplishment, there wouldn't have been any added coverage.

 

Perhaps it's jazzism.

 

- Jeff

[RABid]

I dont think he is ignored by the press because he was a jazz musician, I think he was ignored because he was not a jazz singer or headliner. Face it, great jazz singers get a mention on the national news when they pass away. Great jazz players dont unless they fall into the category of Monk or Miles with lots of albums released under their name rather than a mention in the credits of someone elses music.

 

Musicians can be very elitist about jazz music. The truth is that there are plenty of great musicians in classical, rock, country and other genres. Not to mention non-western music. Too many times, if you dont stand up front and sing then you are just one of the band.

 

Robert

[Tedly Nightshade]

Originally posted by felix.:

So why didn't Santana collaborate with Elvin, rather than riding the coattails of numerous Pop Stars on his last two albums - all the way to the bank?

NO SHIT!

 

While (corny-ass white person?!) Mike Shrieve was producing Elvin Jones, Bill Frisell, and Dave Holland, which you GOT to hear, Carlos was making what kind of nauseating wallpaper with what crummy non-talents? That jack-ass from Matchbox 20? You have fucking got to be kidding, Carlos.

 

I saw Carlos and Wayne Shorter (just saw Wayne again the other night, with Herbie Hancock, Brian Blade, and Dave Holland- what a corny-ass white guy he is ) play an fantastic show at the Fillmore circa 1990 or so- I felt very lucky to have caught Carlos earnestly pursuing music instead of the cheesy pop show he was putting on back then. What the fuck is Carlos up to now, with all that synthetic crap and maudlin faux spirituality? The original Santana band was far more spiritual calling it mother, whore, and Abraxas than these turkeys are now praying backstage.

 

If there's a special hell for hyprocrites, Carlos will be there unless he disowns all this pop glitter and naked opportunism and walks his talk for real...

 

I wouldn't be so upset if I wasn't one of the world's most passionate believers in Santana's music back in the day- I, Abraxas, III, Caravanserai...

[dougsthang]

It's too bad Carlos couldn't just quit with Elvin not gettin the farewell he deserved. When he spinkles in his political views it dilutes the whole message. Carlos is biting the hand that feeds him. Great point earlier about where was Carlos when Elvin was alive, he was making hit records with corny-ass white people.

 

At the Clapton Crossroads festival he put his foot in his mouth once again. Here we are at the Cotton Bowl in Texas and Carlos decides this is the time to rant about Bush being a war monger and such...Doesn't anybody clue Carlos in that Texas is ground zero for the Bush camp.

[whitefang]

To Jode: The big deal made about Reagan's passing wasn't what perturbed me, it was, like I said, the conservative "circle-jerk" accompanying it. Hard to believe, but I think more people were kissing his ass AFTER he died than when he was alive! Best illustrated by a conversation I overheard at the time in the corner store. Two elderly black women were talking when one said, "I knew we had two President Bushes. The one now, and his Daddy before. But I didn't know we had two President Reagans." The other lady replied, "Naw...we just had the one. What made you think there was another?" To which the first one replied, "'Cause the Reagan they's talkin' 'bout on the TV don't sound anything like the one I remember in the White House!"

 

Ah, Reagan! The hero of "welfare queens" and ketchup swilling vegetarians everywhere!

 

As for racism and Elvin Jones' passing; Seems to me I recall the same level of press given Buddy Rich's demise. What I DON'T recall is Carlos ever bitching about THAT!

 

Make of it what you will...

 

Whitefang