Why was Xerox so ahead?

[1_dup16]

They conceived the laser printer, the mouse, ethernet, the GUI, the icons, . Were they the long hand of some underground government research enterprise like Nasa?

[timobrien]

Nope, they were told to do what they wanted and the suits stayed out of their way.

 

Good reason the govt was just told to deconstruct NASA; they have too many micromanagers and overseers who would rather have a project stretch out 30 years to their retirement rather than get anything done.

 

I was heartened to see that Google is wooing PHDs with the promise of letting them spend a portion of their time on personal projects.

 

Wish more companies thought that way....

[offramp]

When you're at the last letter of the alphabet, you have to try harder.

[Mats Olsson.]

Originally posted by 1:

They conceived the laser printer, the mouse, ethernet, the GUI, the icons, . Were they the long hand of some underground government research enterprise like Nasa?

Hmmm...

http://www.sri.com/about/timeline/images/mouse.jpghttp://sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/gallery/slides1/mice/mouse1-1.jpg

Douglas Engelbart invented some of that:

In 1964, the first prototype computer mouse was made to use with a graphical user interface (GUI), 'windows'.

(computer mouse U.S. Patent # 3,541,541) in 1970, describing it in the patent application as an "X-Y position indicator for a display system." "It was nicknamed the mouse because the tail came out the end," Engelbart revealed about his invention. His version of windows was not considered patentable (no software patents were issued at that time), but Douglas Engelbart has over 45 other patents to his name.

http://sloan.stanford.edu/MouseSite/Forummap.gif

By 1968 Engelbart and a group of young computer scientists and electrical engineers he assembled in the Augmentation Research Center at SRI were able to stage a 90-minute public multimedia demonstration of a networked computer system. This was the world debut of the computer mouse, 2-dimensional display editing, hypermedia--including in-file object addressing and linking, multiple windows with flexible view control, and on-screen video teleconferencing.

 

In 1968, a 90-minute, staged public demonstration of a networked computer system was held at the Augmentation Research Center -- the first public appearance of the mouse, windows, hypermedia with object linking and addressing, and video teleconferencing.

Also see this awesome site!!!

[Boggs]

Basically, we just have some really bright and technically brave people here. Underwriters Laboratories have told us that our iGEN3 color press is the most complex piece of gear they have ever tested for certification... The folks in the trenches (where I am) just forge ahead and do what it takes to make things work in spite of management barriers. Good, dedicated people in a high tech environment like we have here makes things happen. Boggs

[jpmiii]

There was a great PBS program (I think it was Frontline or maybe Nova) on the whole history of this a couple years ago it was fascinating.

 

The problem with Xerox was they had all these great technological developments and didn't know what to do with it. But the Apple boys sure did, I believe they had visited and that's where they got the ideas.

[Duddits]

Originally posted by timobrien:

Good reason the govt was just told to deconstruct NASA; they have too many micromanagers and overseers who would rather have a project stretch out 30 years to their retirement rather than get anything done.

On the other hand, there's a sense that NASA can make great things happen -- and extremely fast -- through superhuman effort. Because of its sense of mission, rather than profit, participants go beyond the bottom line.

 

A similar mindset was prevelent at Xerox Park (almost to a fault -- look at how much of their innovation was commercially exploited elsewhere) and similar tech-hotbead Bell Labs, the womb of digital audio (Dave Lewin, Max Matthews, etc.)

[phaeton]

Bell Labs is also where our friend UNIX was developed in the late 1960's

[Kendrix]

I worked as a physicist at Xerox late 70's early eighties ( Still with em in a different capacity today).

 

You need to distinguish the work of researechers at PARC from the rest of Xerox. I visited PARC many times. It was an incredible mix of the very best minds in their fields ( to use a music industry term there was "buzz" in research circles about PARC that allowed it to recruit many of the best/brightest- and Stanford U was right down the road and had a really strong CS department).

 

Part of this was due to the dynamic leadership of a few key researchers D. Kay, R. Rider, for instance.

 

Its also true that these folks were unencumbered by any business considerations. They were given a sandbox to play in- famous beanbag chairs and all.

 

While PARC is most well know for SW/networking inventions such as ethernet it also did great work on hardware- such as LED's and optical control components used in laser printers and specialized high speed chip designs.

 

Finally, it was a unique time when advances in several technical disciplines realated to both HW and SW were ripe for advance. The confluence of all these things and PARC's ability to connect "several of these dots" was partly a matter of good timing. It also owes allot to the borderless inter-discipline approach to managing the lab. Communicatrion between various groups was part of the culture - there were constantly lectures/presentations going on that were open to all the staff.

 

Its true that Xerox sales and product develop-ment culture never "got it" till it was too late and it lost the window of opportunity to really capitalize on the breadth of PARC creations.

 

BTW I still miss the operating system know as Viewpoint that we used on Xerox workstations in the early eighties. Even today Windows lacks some of the elegantly implement desktop UI features that we enjoyed with that system. However, at the time it reqauired too much CPU power and memory to penetrate the low cost PC market that was emerging.- The intel hardware and memory prices favored early version of windows at the time - remember 286processor, 640 K memory machines?

[Duddits]

Were you working at the PARC? What sort of things were you doing?

 

(sorry for calling it Park).

 

Someone recently put me in touch with A. Kay.

[Rim]

Originally posted by Kendrix:

I worked as a physicist at Xerox late 70's early eighties ( Still with em in a different capacity today).

 

...

 

BTW I still miss the operating system know as Viewpoint that we used on Xerox workstations in the early eighties. Even today Windows lacks some of the elegantly implement desktop UI features that we enjoyed with that system. However, at the time it reqauired too much CPU power and memory to penetrate the low cost PC market that was emerging.

I'd be interested to hear more of the features you miss. I don't think the CPU and memory limitations would apply these days. With the great developers involved in Linux and GNU, maybe those features can be incorporated into the GUI. Then you can feel at home again.

[Kendrix]

Originally posted by Duddits:

Were you working at the PARC? What sort of things were you doing?

 

(sorry for calling it Park).

 

Someone recently put me in touch with A. Kay.

No I was in Rochester.

At first I worked on photoreceptors and xerographic systems optimization.

 

Later I had a job involved with the inteface between business and technology planning- thats when I interactd with PARC folks. The idea was to get Xerox to better capitalize on PARC stuff and to have the Rochester-centric copier/printer business (that was beginnin to see the effects of pervasive networks impact its business) drive some PARC work into relevant areas.

[Kendrix]

Originally posted by Rim.:

Originally posted by Kendrix:

I worked as a physicist at Xerox late 70's early eighties ( Still with em in a different capacity today).

 

...

 

BTW I still miss the operating system know as Viewpoint that we used on Xerox workstations in the early eighties. Even today Windows lacks some of the elegantly implement desktop UI features that we enjoyed with that system. However, at the time it reqauired too much CPU power and memory to penetrate the low cost PC market that was emerging.

I'd be interested to hear more of the features you miss. I don't think the CPU and memory limitations would apply these days. With the great developers involved in Linux and GNU, maybe those features can be incorporated into the GUI. Then you can feel at home again.

Its been a long time. I can just say it felt more natural to use- it was truly a desktop metapor based on physical desktops. It was self-evident. All filing and printing was drag and drop by default. You could go out to the network and find any device present and use it ( such as a printer). It used a PDL/DDL for complex documents called interpress ( created by the folks who moved on from X and started Adobe). Like the op.system case it was too bulky for the emerging PC machines and early printers- but would have well against postscript if it had survived long enough for the mass market hardware to catch up.

 

It was responsive - much less hourglass watching.

 

We were able to give secretaries SA training and administer the system on that basis. No calling a help desk in India.

 

Se la vie

[mound]

It's a pretty miserable place to work these days, at least within the information systems arena. I know I'm not alone in that opinion. I can't speak to the product engineering side, but from what I've seen of "information" management, they are completely inept, and lack all ability to recognize and take advantge of technical achievements at the right time, even when enthusiastic folks go out of their way to make the points clear. The culture they've established for themselves is their own worst enemy and they have no concept of that. Having spent the last 3 years there and finally getting out, I have nothing positive to say about the experience whatsoever, which is a shame really. There was a time when my head was fully wrapped around the exciting development we were doing, and "upper management" was quite simply too lazy, apathetic and caught in the "this is how it's always been done" rutt to realize the savings they could realize which led to more waste. I know there's a pseduo-sub-cult of folks in Rochester who pride themselves in "finally having gotten out" while feeling bad for the folks left behind..

 

Its true that Xerox sales and product develop-ment culture never "got it" till it was too late and it lost the window of opportunity to really capitalize

and they still don't, in my experience.

 

Anyway, sorry for the rant, I'm sure there are some very happy folks working there, some of whom may be reading this right now, if so, I certainly don't mean to insult, but some of the management needs to be seriously insulted, maybe it'll get their heads on straight.

 

PS - Boggs - nice Peavy Fury page! That was my first bass