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Kid Rock-original, innovative and important


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I am in my mid-forties, I have been playing and listening to music since I was a teenager and I have educated, eclectic musical tastes. I have a good bit of knowledge on who's who in rock, jazz, blues, world music, and experimental music.

 

I have to defend Kid Rock. I think time will prove that Kid Rock is one of the most original and influential artists of our time. Like Elvis and the Beatles he combines black genres (hip hop) with white genres (hard rock, southern rock and country) in an original new way. I think he is hated for a few reasons:

1. Very few people are open minded enough to enjoy all of these disparate genres, so they resent this cross breeding.

2. He has deliberately cultivated a white trash persona. Low income uneducated white people are the current socially acceptable subculture to discriminate against.

3. He has deliberately cultivated a brash, boastful, lecherous, obnoxious persona. I can somewhat understand that people react negatively to this, but I think that they miss the joke: Its an ACT. He is funny and entertaining. He doesn't take himself seriously, there is often self depreciation in his lyrics alongside the boasting.

 

You don't have to like him anymore than you like Homer Simpson. But if you can be open minded enough to go along for the ride the guy is pretty amusing. And he's not nearly as malevolent as most gangster rappers-he doesn't sing about the joys of doing drive by shootings or beating hos.

 

I issue this challenge to those who think they don't like him:

Don't judge him from a TV appearance performing atypical material. Listen to most of his albums "Cocky" and "Devil without a Cause."

 

Unless you are prudish and you hate rap, heavy metal or country I think you will have to admit:

 

1. The band rocks: they get great rhythmic grooves, build dynamic excitement well and the guitar solos are very good. I think the band has the kind of rhythmic vitality that the Stones, ACDC. Led Zep, Aerosmith and precious few others have been able to achieve.

2. The arrangements are innovative and interesting in the way they combinbe elements from different genres.

3. The lyrics are unusual and funny.

4. He's a good singer able to convincingly rap, scream rock and croon country.

 

If you have actually heard these albums, I challenge you to tell me what is wrong with his abilities (within the genres he performs, obviously he should not be compared to a jazz fusion player) and who can do rap-metal-country better than he does.

 

If you haven't heard these albums then you don't know what you're talking about.

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Originally posted by hard truth:

I think time will prove that Kid Rock is one of the most original and influential artists of our time. Like Elvis and the Beatles ...

Originally posted by hard truth:

You don't have to like him anymore than you like Homer Simpson. But if you can be open minded enough to go along for the ride the guy is pretty amusing.

From one of the most original and influential artists of our time and a comparison to Elvis and the Beatles ... to pretty amusing, like Homer Simpson. What happened? I thought you liked him!

 

Originally posted by hard truth:

Very few people are open minded enough to enjoy all of these disparate genres, so they resent this cross breeding.

I love when people put down other people's mental faculties just because they don't like the same things. I miss that. It's been a long time since I hung on the playground.

 

Originally posted by hard truth:

Its an ACT. He is funny and entertaining. He doesn't take himself seriously...

I don't take him seriously either. So, why do you?

 

Originally posted by hard truth:

Unless you are prudish and you hate rap, heavy metal or country I think you will have to admit:

 

1. The band rocks: they get great rhythmic grooves, build dynamic excitement well and the guitar solos are very good. I think the band has the kind of rhythmic vitality that the Stones, ACDC. Led Zep, Aerosmith and precious few others have been able to achieve....

Most backup bands for hire are filled with top-flight musicians. It's not a contest, but comparing his backup band to John Bonham, John Paul Jones and Jimmy Page? Are you trying to be convincing?

 

Originally posted by hard truth:

4. He's a good singer able to convincingly rap, scream rock and croon country.

I personally loved his AutoTuned-like-Cher performance on the Sheryl Crow song.

 

Originally posted by hard truth:

who can do rap-metal-country better than he does.

I'll give you that one - he's the best and the only.
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coming from a section of pennsyl-tuckey where most people are white, uneducated and live in trailers or dilapidated farm houses on non-working farms--I don't think he pulls the act off. If he really was a harley pushin, city-slicker whompin good ol boy he wouldn't make himself look like such an idiot! His band does rock, the guitarist is great and he does put on a show. But i would have to say that I know acouple of old football players who, after a fifth of wild turkey, could do what he does better and in a way that wouldn't make theselves look like such pussys. I'm glad you found someone to entertain you, it's getting so hard in major acts these days....
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:rolleyes:

 

"he's not nearly as malevolent as most gangster rappers" but he "He has deliberately cultivated a brash, boastful, lecherous, obnoxious persona"?

 

sweet. that's everything i ever wanted in a music act.

 

you know, i was just saying to my wife yesterday, "honey, i'm in the mood to listen to a lecherous white trash performer that fuses black music with country music and a dash of obnoxiously boastful rap. boy, am i tired of real music. wouldn't it be nice if someone would manufacture an image for a change."

 

i can't belive i even validated this post with a response :rolleyes:

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Ooh! Ooh! Let me!!

 

I am in my mid-forties, I have been playing and listening to music since I was a teenager and I have educated, eclectic musical tastes. I have a good bit of knowledge on who's who in rock, jazz, blues, world music, and experimental music.

 

...So my opinion and beliefs are obviously more important than yours.

 

I have to defend Kid Rock. I think time will prove that Kid Rock is one of the most original and influential artists of our time. Like Elvis and the Beatles he combines black genres (hip hop) with white genres (hard rock, southern rock and country) in an original new way. I think he is hated for a few reasons:

1. Very few people are open minded enough to enjoy all of these disparate genres, so they resent this cross breeding.

 

You have a point.

 

2. He has deliberately cultivated a white trash persona.

 

Unlike Southern Culture On The Skids, Reverend Horton Heat, Crash Cadillac, Single Coil Screamers, Reverb Rockets, etc...

 

Low income uneducated white people are the current socially acceptable subculture to discriminate against.

 

Though it's not the only one.

 

3. He has deliberately cultivated a brash, boastful, lecherous, obnoxious persona.

 

Insert 5000 frontmen and women from various rock, blues, rockabilly, metal, rap, country as precedent. It's all showmanship.

 

I can somewhat understand that people react negatively to this, but I think that they miss the joke: Its an ACT. He is funny and entertaining. He doesn't take himself seriously, there is often self depreciation in his lyrics alongside the boasting.

 

I'll have to listen to him again.

 

You don't have to like him anymore than you like Homer Simpson. But if you can be open minded enough to go along for the ride the guy is pretty amusing. And he's not nearly as malevolent as most gangster rappers-he doesn't sing about the joys of doing drive by shootings or beating hos.

 

Not all rappers are gangster rappers, but you are probably correct.

 

I issue this challenge to those who think they don't like him:

Don't judge him from a TV appearance performing atypical material. Listen to most of his albums "Cocky" and "Devil without a Cause."

 

He's innovative and original, but don't pay any attention to his "atypical" material.

 

Unless you are prudish and you hate rap, heavy metal or country I think you will have to admit:

 

How about if you hate rap and country, but not metal? Or how about if you hate country, but dig metal and rap? Or what if you like rap but neither country or metal? Or..

 

1. The band rocks: they get great rhythmic grooves, build dynamic excitement well and the guitar solos are very good. I think the band has the kind of rhythmic vitality that the Stones, ACDC. Led Zep, Aerosmith and precious few others have been able to achieve.

 

The real test for this is if a song is immediately recognizeable by pretty much any 2 second snippet from anywhere in the song. Loads of stuff from AC/DC, Aerosmith and Zep will pass that test.

 

2. The arrangements are innovative and interesting in the way they combinbe elements from different genres.

 

But dammit they aren't atypical.

 

3. The lyrics are unusual and funny.

4. He's a good singer able to convincingly rap, scream rock and croon country.

 

Actually, i think that any skilled vocalist would be able to do that. The problem is that most vocalists these days aren't very good, many are autotuned, etc. Oh wait, does kid rock do any country singing w/o autotune?

 

If you have actually heard these albums, I challenge you to tell me what is wrong with his abilities (within the genres he performs, obviously he should not be compared to a jazz fusion player) and who can do rap-metal-country better than he does.

 

Opinions are subjective, as to what is "better" or not. But all seriousness aside, i'm just messing with ya. Don't take any of my refusions above personally- i just like a good debate now and again, even if i know i'm half-cocked and uninformed. :)

 

If you haven't heard these albums then you don't know what you're talking about.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

.

WWND?

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For Phaeton and others: To clarify what I meant by "atypical material": I am referring to some of his TV appearances such as performing "America the Beautiful" before a basketball game. I am not claiming that this is the type of thing that he is good at.

 

I am claiming that he does a good job of performing the type of rap-rock-county material heard on the "Cocky" and "Devil without a Cause" albums.

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He crawled through the genre he's chosen, got into the limelite, hopefully saved and invested his rewards and sleeps with a nice blonde with demonsterable oral skills.

 

His gambit into country is laugable. His schitck, is thin and now becomming more than dated.

 

Should he ressurect and find a new strong album focus then we can rejoice, otherwise he'll lose his deal and be one more CD in the cut out bin, he's a rack jobbers dream.

 

There are a thousand folks crashing the gates of Nashville who pale him.

 

Rob

Label on the reverb, inside 1973 Ampeg G-212: "Folded Line Reverberation Unit" Manufactured by beautiful girls in Milton WIS. under controlled atmosphere conditions.
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Well...I don't own any KR CDs but I don't dislike what he does or who he tries to be. I'm not overly impressed but I do appreciate that he doesn't take himself so seriously that it hurts to watch (seen Velvet Revolver yet? Now that's painful...or hilarious).

 

Bottom line is that he has cultivated something that a major label has seen fit to promote and make popular. Good thing? Bad thing? Depends on how bitter you are at not getting that chance yourself, I guess.

 

:wave:

this house is empty now...
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Not bitter at all, I can vote for the Grammys and play out, have some film cue underbeds up ahead and have a cool day job in the biz...

 

Rock's just not very suited to Country and of late is trying the crowbar, shoe horn gambit to it.

 

He's a hanger on to it, not from it, simple as that.

 

That could change, but not likely.

 

There are enough folks with more genuine talent for thet genre than he.

Label on the reverb, inside 1973 Ampeg G-212: "Folded Line Reverberation Unit" Manufactured by beautiful girls in Milton WIS. under controlled atmosphere conditions.
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Originally posted by Robman2:

There are enough folks with more genuine talent for thet genre than he.

I think we can all agree on that.

 

Unfortunately, talent isn't necessarily a prerequisite for getting the "push" it takes to make a rockstar these days. Yeah, it's been that way for a long time but it seems like the bar gets lower every year.

 

The good stuff in any genre [almost] never gets the attention it deserves when it comes out. The promo departments save all the PR money for what is tried, tired and true.

 

It sucks, but what else can you do but laugh like hell?

this house is empty now...
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Evidently a lot of people see something they like in Kid Rock.

 

I find a little to like in a lot of artists. I find a lot to like in some artists. But I haven't heard or seen anything from Kid Rock that made me say, "Man, I'd like to be doing that."

 

Just my opinion

Yum, Yum! Eat em up!
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Originally posted by hard truth:

I am in my mid-forties

I got a few years on you,but that doesn't matter since I'd have the same opinion when I was 17 on this sham as I do now,and it has nothing to do with genre's or race,just the lack of talent and more importantly,devoid of originality.
"A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
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Originally posted by hard truth:

Very few people are open minded enough to enjoy all of these disparate genres, so they resent this cross breeding.

 

I thought it was inbreeding.

 

hard truth: "I am in my mid-forties, I have been playing and listening to music since I was a teenager and I have educated, eclectic musical tastes. I have a good bit of knowledge on who's who in rock, jazz, blues, world music, and experimental music."

 

phaeton: ...So my opinion and beliefs are obviously more important than yours.

 

phaeton, I didn't get that sense of haughtiness at all. All I saw was a guy qualifying his upcoming statements, to give a little heads-up, and to let us know that he wasn't some 17 y.o. punk with a penchant for cruising laundromats.

I'd say, back up a little, man.

He appreciates Kid Rock, you don't. Okay. He's just letting us know that other people than Kid-Rock's 'peers' appreciate KR's thing.

I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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ya know what? the thing that is great about kid rock is that the guy is truly a music fan. period. that part isn't an act. how many people can recite verses to willie nelson songs AND Jay Z songs? and hang with both of them? hell, just though renewed interest, i would bet that kid rock alone has indirectly put bob seger's kids through college.

 

-d. gauss

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Originally posted by d gauss:

ya know what? the thing that is great about kid rock is that the guy is truly a music fan. period. that part isn't an act. how many people can recite verses to willie nelson songs AND Jay Z songs? and hang with both of them? hell, just though renewed interest, i would bet that kid rock alone has indirectly put bob seger's kids through college.

 

-d. gauss

what took you so long man. :thu:
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Originally posted by d gauss:

ya know what? the thing that is great about kid rock is that the guy is truly a music fan. period. that part isn't an act. how many people can recite verses to willie nelson songs AND Jay Z songs? and hang with both of them? hell, just though renewed interest, i would bet that kid rock alone has indirectly put bob seger's kids through college.

 

-d. gauss

what took you so long man. :thu:
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Originally posted by d gauss:

i would bet that kid rock alone has indirectly put bob seger's kids through college.

Aside from his past hits,I think the Chevy Commercial(Like a Rock)alone put Bob Seger way past the point of needing any financial assistance(to put it mildely).In fact,in a few years from now maybe Bob can help a future has-been Kid Rock.
"A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
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phaeton, I didn't get that sense of haughtiness at all. All I saw was a guy qualifying his upcoming statements, to give a little heads-up, and to let us know that he wasn't some 17 y.o. punk with a penchant for cruising laundromats.

I'd say, back up a little, man.

 

Hrmm... I reread that, and i can see it my way, and i can see it your way too, now. I guess i kinda jumped to the wrong conclusion.

 

My bad.

 

Sorry hard truth, i was being an ass.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

.

WWND?

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Originally posted by m.l.p.:

kid rock, original, innovative and important. hmmmmmm... that HAS to be the first time that name and those words have appeared in the same sentence!

At least without a "Not" preceding the adjectives. :D

 

I want to know how he convinced Sheryl Crow to do the duet, and more importantly, the video. He must have photos (which, of course, I'd like to bid on).

www.ruleradio.com

"Fame is like death: We will never know what it looks like until we've reached the other side. Then it will be impossible to describe and no one will believe you if you try."

- Sloane Crosley, Village Voice

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Originally posted by m.l.p.:

kid rock, original, innovative and important. hmmmmmm... that HAS to be the first time that name and those words have appeared in the same sentence!

usually it's "disingenuous, derivative, and self important"
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The Chevy commercial as I understand it, was managed to minimize his royalties.

 

I may be wrong and forget the specifs someone told me when I said something similar some time ago.

 

FWIW

Label on the reverb, inside 1973 Ampeg G-212: "Folded Line Reverberation Unit" Manufactured by beautiful girls in Milton WIS. under controlled atmosphere conditions.
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"I issue this challenge to those who think they don't like him:

Don't judge him from a TV appearance performing atypical material. Listen to most of his albums "Cocky" and "Devil without a Cause." "

 

Ok, I've done that. I have a friend older than you that loves Kid Rock so I listend to him. I have another friend older than you that likes a few Kid Rock songs. Cowboy and the SC duet. So she gave me the CD's after she got tired of them. I'm older than you too, although I'm not sure why that matters.

 

Take Led Zep II and Cocky. Listen to them back to back, over and over. If you are honest you will

1. Get tired of KR before LZ

2. Realize that LZ is always fresh whereas KR is not.

 

I have no problem listening to KR but the music is simply not on the order of the bands you mentioned, especially Stones and Zep.

 

I have listened to KR over and over for hours while driving. Try it. It's simply not the same. It is especially noticable/irritating when they do things like copy other rock lead solos in the middle of their "original" song.

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