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Tahiti or Asia on the cheap...


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Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

Originally posted by Dan South:

I don't know your situation, but I'm betting that your kids are going to go throug hell if you do this.

There you may be completely wrong, friend.

 

Kids are often better off in an environment where people aren't fighting and screaming at each other all the time. I know many, many people who were very relieved when their parents split (I sure was, for example). It depends on the age and maturity level of the kids.

 

If possible, people with kids should try and work things out, of course. But if it's not going to work out, why put the kids through the relationship problems by proxy? They can move on and grow without being the innocent bystander to a bad relationship, and have a better chance of not following the pattern with their own future relationships without the constantly dysfunctional role models.

 

- Jeff

It's a very difficult call. I don't know any child of divorce parents who does not carry some emotional burden from the divorce. Not that it's necessarily a huge burden. It's probably less significant in one's life than having been raped or suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, for instance. But...it's something that anyone who's considering divorce must wrestle with in advance.

 

Also, as a cautionary note to anyone in Dean's position, if you think that living with her is hard, be prepared for a few years of hell that may be even WORSE when the process gets into motion and the tempers start flying. It can be, literally, a period of absolute instanity. People do insane things when they're wrapped up in a divorce, even dangerous things. It's an ugly thing, and you don't have any idea how ugly it's could be when you're first contemplating it.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Originally posted by Lee Flier:

But maybe it does have something to do with that, because when you post something (at least in this discussion) I THINK I know what you're saying but then you seem to say something different.

 

Funny, that happens to me too sometimes when I read other peoples posts. :) That could be attributed to the fact that someone can relate to one point, if worded in one particular way, and disagree with the same point if worded differently. I guess it has to do with how and what choice of words matches another one's blueprint of personal experiences. It does not nessecarily have to mean people are inconsisted in their views. (not saying you were implying that in my case, though).

 

But I mainly took exception to what you were saying to Ken at this time, because I consider Ken a friend and I think I know how he feels right now. And if someone would have said what you said to me in that context, when I was feeling that way, it would have really hurt me

 

That is interesting. For my own educational purposes I would like you to explain that a little further , if you don't mind.

I reread my first post in which I addressed Ken directly. I can't really,for the life of me, see where I could have possibly offended him.

Rest assured that, if that was the case, it was totally unintentional. Although I have tried it already previously, let me again try to explain some things about that post first in greater detail as I believe it might improve the art of communicating in general. It could also be an exercise in careful reading.

 

I started off by offering Valky a suggestion about where to go in Asia for his next trip. I also said it was cool to see that Ken mentioned the same places I visit in Thailand.

My FIRST line directly addressing Ken's situation was: "And btw, Ken, I am really sorry to see you going through rough times with your relationship."

 

Now, that is what most of the others have said as well. Including the "Let's cheer Ken up" thread. And obviously, just like me, with the best of intentions and showing compassion. So I too, acknowledged the fact that he was/is hurt and expressed that I felt sorry about what had happend to him. I could have left it at that. Maybe I should have, like some others did.

In an effort to give him a tool to cope with that pain I went a little further by suggesting that he could try to be in control of that pain. Nowhere did I imply for him to deny it.

I started of with "I sure hope that you do realise...". I didn't say he must or should realise.

 

I regret just saying that "people can only hurt you if..."

That was incomplete. What I should have said was "people can only hurt you SO MUCH if..". It was an effort to warn him not to get totally absorbed by his grief but to try to detach from it as much as possible so as to be able to put things in some perspective. I didn't tell him how he was supposed to feel as was your impression, according to something you said later in this thread.

 

I also said to him: "Don't give them control over your emotions...". What I meant by that was, Don't give them TOTAL control to the point where your hurt emotions and inherent pain could become their 'property' and possible weapon of emotional blackmail and/ or renders him incapable of objectively analyzing what he is going through after the breakup and certainly not meant to tell him that failing to implement my advice about the power of controlling or lack thereof during the relation is the cause why he is in the current situation in the first place. Phew... If I always wanted to be 'complete' ( as if you ever can.. ) in sharing my views, my posts would be much longer than they sometimes already are :D

 

In trying to make them as compact as possible the risk of multiple interpretations and subsequent criticism grow. Funny enough, the longer you make them by giving as many as possible ( indepth) views and angles, the higher the 'risk' of offending people. ( There's an expression in Holland that says: The taller the tree, the more wind it catches..)

What I usually do, is to search for a (to me unknown ) poster's history and read a few of them to get a feel for where he/she is at on different subjects and viewpoints. Sometimes I wish some people would go through the same 'trouble' as well. It might make things around here sometimes less confusing. Based on that (subjective) assesment, I estimate their capability to read between the lines of my posts.

And in some cases fail miserably at that ;)

 

I also said: "I know, easier said than done" in reference to, and after giving my 'advice'.

My next sentence was: "English is not my native tongue but I really hope you understand what I'm trying to say."

 

This shows you ( him, actually) that I was well aware of the possibility of being misunderstood. Please note that I used the words HOPE and TRYING.

 

I then went on to say that should he take a trip to Thailand next January I would love to make some music together over there. Again, in a well meant effort to take his mind of the problem and focus on something nice in the future.

(Incedently, the offer still stands Ken, if you read this.)

 

I closed of that seemingly offending post with:

"Hoping this post was useful in some way and don't forget that happiness is a choice."

 

Please note I used the words "HOPING", "SOME WAY" and "CHOICE".

 

I really don't understand why you said that, were you to be in his particular situation and feeling like him , my words would have "really hurt" you.

 

Just stating some facts and in no way trying to accuse you here but you, on the other hand, dismissed my post as "crap", said my viewpoint was no less than "lying" to myself, they were not "cool", even "silly" and you thought I was "not honest".

 

As soon as Ken himself addressed my post and I noticed that my message didn't help him I apologized to him for it not being helpful and admitted that I moved to the teaching part too soon, although in the same post I shared a personal story (girl in bar) that it sometimes does work albeit not instantly. I also apologized to all for being off topic.

 

The following is not directed towards you but also did happen in this thread. In contrast and strangely enough, Dan felt compelled to post something what I believe to be was flatout insultive to me, my friends and Thai women in general. He also quoted part of a sentence I wrote and in doing so intentionally misconstrued it to make some point. His whole post was not only off topic but factually wrong as well.

Not a word from anyone who contributed to this thread about it. Zilch, nada.

 

When I replied to him, and giving him quite some benefit of the doubt, I went through some trouble to correct his (mis)statement with facts and links to prove it. All I got was silence in return.

Well, not really, he did reply saying that he based his 'statement' on a few sex tourists he personally knows :rolleyes:

He didn't address the other issues I brought up in my reply to him. And telling me that "STD's in Southeast Asia are well-documented. This has no reflection on your personal experiences there" can hardly be interpretated as an apology, I believe. I do appreciate his other insightful posts a lot, though. Even complimented him on it.

 

BTW, I challenge anyone here to find any post by me that contains a direct personal insult towards a forum member or downright name calling.

 

I would like to address some other points in the rest of your last post briefly ( I promise ;) )because you made some fine points there and I do agree that parts of our 'misunderstandings' were nothing more than miscommunications.

Thanks for the exchange so far :thu:

 

steelandre.

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