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XK5/NumaOrgan 2/Dexibell J7/Viscount Legend, do you have?


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I wanted to do some other organ evaluations, and I'd like to include the Numa Organ 2, Dexibell J7 Combo, Hammond XK5, and Viscount Legend (any current version e.g. Solo, Live, Exp),. Any volunteers to help me with this, if you own one of 'em?

 

BEST... you live in the New York metro area (incl western CT or northern NJ), and might actually let me borrow the board. I have quite an inventory myself, and I could temporarily swap for one of mine that you've always been curious about playing with.

 

MORE LIKELY... I send you MIDI files, and instructions on drawbar settings and the like, you record the audio out and send me the files. This doesn't allow me to use my ears to get the boards closer to what I'm after, but it's still a lot better than nothing.

 

Any takers?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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You could "borrow" a board from Guitar Center, 45 day return window. And, because they have so many brick and mortar shops, you don't need to ship the return.

 

Or any other shop with at least a 30 day window, esp if you've bought enough from them over time to not feel guilty for knowingly borrowing gear. Who knows though, you may just keep the board!

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For anyone following this, I'm also interested in a VR09/VR09B/VR730 which I haven't heard since they upgraded the leslie.

 

Dexibell shouldnt even be on the list, it'sn not in the same league as the others.

Yeah, from all the online demos I've heard, it's pretty poor, but I don't know if any of the demos were using O.S. 4.0.6 or higher where they introduced their new rotary emulation algorithms, which seemed to be where its biggest weakness was. I'm also interested in checking out some other aspects of the board.

 

XK-5 with a Leslie 3300.

Thanks, Outkaster, I may send you a file when I get closer.

 

You could "borrow" a board from Guitar Center, 45 day return window. And, because they have so many brick and mortar shops, you don't need to ship the return...Who knows though, you may just keep the board!

Yeah, shipping the boards can get pricey, so a local GC return is a nice perk... but the GC near me is closed, and who know when it will open! I'm hesitant to buy something online, though, unless I think there is at least a 50/50 chance that I would keep it... though at least if they have used/b-stock/open box available, if I returned it, it would be no worse for the wear!

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Forgive me, but comparing clones is now a big yawn.

 

The clone wars are over as far as I"m concerned. Pick one, play it well.

 

I also wonder this as it could be a niche market of keyboard players that will just die. Message boards were hot on these things in the early to mid 2000's.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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I think it's like fashion - as a generation discovers a timbre, a sound, an instrument - it comes into fashion. Typically with the buying crowd - when a generation of "kids" grows up and has some money in their pockets they typically would like to acquire a sound that is nostalgic and brings them joy. It's the same with cars - preference for hot cars from the 70s become more desirable as the dream machine of their youth becomes affordable to own.

Yamaha CP88, Roland VR-700, Crumar Mojo, rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Casio PX-560

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I think it's like fashion - as a generation discovers a timbre, a sound, an instrument - it comes into fashion. Typically with the buying crowd - when a generation of "kids" grows up and has some money in their pockets they typically would like to acquire a sound that is nostalgic and brings them joy.
Right, and the really popular retro sounds right now are synthesizers, particularly late 70s/80s analog synths, since that's the reference point for a lot of contemporary pop and indie rock music. And the really nice clones are a major investment, especially when you consider that there are great sounding all-around workhorse keyboards at the same price point. Now amplify that for a generation of players that didn't grow up with the real deal around regularly (I count myself among them); I needed a few years on my Nord Electro before I was craving anything that gave me a more authentic B3 experience than that. But as you say, these things are circular, so I'm sure there will be another cycle of Hammond turning up in pop music (even if not mainstream pop) that brings the market back around. I mean, in the jam band/festival circuit, B3s really never went out of style; I've never seen so many Hammonds moving on and off a stage as the last time I went to Mountain Jam.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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When cover bands stop playing "Gimme Some Lovin," manufacturers might start to think about cutting back clone production levels, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There's so much pop and rock 60's and 70's that will likely remain popular forever and that requires an authentic Hammond sound. That's aside from the reinvigoration of the Hammond that started in the 90's associated by the jam band scene.

 

One can argue that we're seeing diminishing returns as clones are spawned or updated. In the 90's and the 00's, clones were getting significantly better with each new 3-4 year generation. You'd expect to see a leveling off of that technology and maybe we're finally there. I think the B-3X is better than the Mojo, but only just slightly, and I might feel differently on different days. I paid close attention to Scott's last comparo and, while I could certainly pick favorites, I also felt it was all outside the detection level of the average listener.

 

So there's a sense in which Dazzjazz's comment strikes a true chord with me. Pick a clone and stick with it. I've been on the Mojo for a few years now and still quite happy.

 

On the other hand, the lure of something like the YC61 is not that it's the best clone (very likely it's not), but that it's a good enough clone in a compelling gigging package.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Dexibell shouldnt even be on the list, it'sn not in the same league as the others.

 

Searching for other info on the board, I found your post at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2966506/re-dexibell-what-do-you-know-about-them#Post2966506 where you sounded encouraged about the new Leslie (this was after you had written it off from your earlier experience), even concluding, "I may have found my new keyboard...." -- Did you ever have an opportunity to try it in person again?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Yes, it doesn't cut it. It lacks cabinet simulation. You hear the two rotors spinning up but the leslie lacks character. Not nearly on the same level as the other clones; and even those clones' leslies are often replaced by a Vent. Also, panning is an issue. Originally, if I recall correctly, you couldn't pan (like the Roland VR series); they instituted panning but the hard pan for organ is still like 80/20, you can hear a large amount of sound coming out the other jack; I found no way of defeating it, rendering the panning solution fairly useless.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Dyin Breed Band

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For anyone following this, I'm also interested in a VR09/VR09B/VR730 which I haven't heard since they upgraded the leslie.

 

You could "borrow" a board from Guitar Center, 45 day return window. And, because they have so many brick and mortar shops, you don't need to ship the return...Who knows though, you may just keep the board!

Yeah, shipping the boards can get pricey, so a local GC return is a nice perk... but the GC near me is closed, and who know when it will open! I'm hesitant to buy something online, though, unless I think there is at least a 50/50 chance that I would keep it... though at least if they have used/b-stock/open box available, if I returned it, it would be no worse for the wear!

 

Yes yes yes. Protect and respect brick and mortar stores, in my case exclusively GC.

Absolutely wonderful for

- kicking the tires

- live human to query

- 45 day returns, no shipping

 

My spending reflects that. Unless I can get a much better deal elsewhere, I make a point of buying from GC. And these days it makes even more sense- ever since everyone charges state sales tax for online, out of state purchases, the online stores don't have that advantage. It REALLY must help them stay in business, that unfair advantage eliminated.

 

So- I care. But I'm also the consumer looking for the best deal.

 

To the best of my knowledge

- around 40% markup on most items

- returned items marked down 15% are still being sold at a profit, and keeps business within GC

 

Every GC employee makes a point of reminding that you can always return the item if you don't like it, which leads me to conclude- their business model is a gamble on their part that you'll likely keep your purchase, and in so doing they've successfully overcome the biggest hurdle most consumers face, the uncertainty of satisfaction. The 'gotcha' of the impulse buy!

 

Basically we're a kind of buyers club. If you have the liquid funds for 45 days, you can benefit from their Membership Advantages: easy 45 day returns, try out gear you otherwise would never have the chance to fully audition.

 

It usually happens that I DON'T know how much I like or don't like a board without having it at home. I can get a few impressions in a store, but it's not until I've got it home that I can tell if it's for me or not.

 

So, I DON'T think it's dodgy to sometimes take advantage of GC return policy. If you care about their survival (if for no other reason than for your own needs), AND want to try out gear in your own house at your own pace, these two things can simultaneously exist, and their business model is pretty clear about wanting you to indulge in that kind of buying behavior.

Kawai ES110 & ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Klipsch KMC 3 // Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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Gotta stick up for Sweetwater. No I have no affiliation.

Free shipping. Free 2 year warranty.

 

Downside,

 

No brick locations. Hard to try gear and if you return something you dont like I think they dont refund the shipping you didn't pay. I mean your refund is hit with the shipping cost that was removed from your bill. 'Know what I mean vern?

 

I am swayed by the free tootsie rolls though

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Gotta stick up for Sweetwater. No I have no affiliation.

Free shipping. Free 2 year warranty.

 

Downside,

 

No brick locations.

 

They have a humongous brick location! Ft. Wayne, IN.

Moe

---

"I keep wanting to like it's sound, but every demo seems to demonstrate that it has the earth-shaking punch and peerless sonics of the Roland Gaia. " - Tusker

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When cover bands stop playing "Gimme Some Lovin," manufacturers might start to think about cutting back clone production levels, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There's so much pop and rock 60's and 70's that will likely remain popular forever and that requires an authentic Hammond sound. That's aside from the reinvigoration of the Hammond that started in the 90's associated by the jam band scene.

 

One can argue that we're seeing diminishing returns as clones are spawned or updated. In the 90's and the 00's, clones were getting significantly better with each new 3-4 year generation. You'd expect to see a leveling off of that technology and maybe we're finally there. I think the B-3X is better than the Mojo, but only just slightly, and I might feel differently on different days. I paid close attention to Scott's last comparo and, while I could certainly pick favorites, I also felt it was all outside the detection level of the average listener.

 

So there's a sense in which Dazzjazz's comment strikes a true chord with me. Pick a clone and stick with it. I've been on the Mojo for a few years now and still quite happy.

 

On the other hand, the lure of something like the YC61 is not that it's the best clone (very likely it's not), but that it's a good enough clone in a compelling gigging package.

 

 

Adan diminishing returns is correct. I mean when this all started in the early 90's it really escalated once the web message boards came into fashion I remember as i was there. At some point we are splitting hairs as the technology improves. When the Korg CX-3 came out in 2000 I couldn't believe it. When I stumbled on the first Hammond XK-3 the CX-3 was obsolete in my mind, I had to have that XK-3. There wasn't a Hammond dealer here locally and some music store got it through a buying group. As I got some experience I spent time around real vintage gear so I didn't see the need to care as passionately as I once did if a clone's C/V was perfect or not. Every time I go to Tom Petro's or Wes Garland's place in Ontario I am reminded of that when I see an army of Leslie's and console Hammonds hanging out. There's nothing like it. That said I want a good clone when I have to play gigs all said and done. It helps to put my best foot forward if I can play something nice that is close. The last big competition was the Mojo to the Hammond. It's gotten so bad certain clones have caused a lot heated arguments with people being banned in a couple of cases because of it. Digital pianos didn't even do that. I have had a few clones and I still sit with the Hammond camp but I understand the appeal of the other clones.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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If I could choose any of the clones I would take the XK5, I believe it sounds the most authentic all the way around (except for the internal Leslie). Played into a leslie I can't really distinguish it from the real deal, especially given the fact that no two hammonds sound alike. If you were to have a comparison of four real hammond and the XK5 in a blindfold test it would be impossible for me to pick out the XK5 from the other four real hammonds if they were all played through the same leslie. But given its price point it just doesn't make sense for me to outlay that kind of cash to get that incremental difference. I chose the Gemini module because in addition to getting VB3-ii (a great emulation in itself) I also get a fantastic set of electromechanical devices like a Mark 1 rhodes, a Mark 5 rhodes, a Wurli, D6 Clav as well as another two dozen instruments (horns, strings, CP80, DX7, Vox, Farfisa, Synths, pads, Flutes, Bass, orchestrals, voices) that all sound very good, and now a decent grand piano in the Venice Open. The only instruments missing from the list are the saxophones. There is a huge bang for the buck in the Gemini. Before purchasing the Gemini I was thinking the HX3 rack or the Viscount EXP module but for just a small amount more money I have a large list of updated instruments dropped into my lap that the other modules don't even offer and an organ competitive to the XK5 for over $2K less than the XK5.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Dyin Breed Band

Exit 93 Band

 

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Gotta stick up for Sweetwater. No I have no affiliation.

Free shipping. Free 2 year warranty.

 

Downside,

 

No brick locations.

 

They have a humongous brick location! Ft. Wayne, IN.

 

Humongous, indeed! Love it there, don't know if it is currently open, however.

:nopity:
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Yes, it doesn't cut it. It lacks cabinet simulation. You hear the two rotors spinning up but the leslie lacks character. Not nearly on the same level as the other clones; and even those clones' leslies are often replaced by a Vent. Also, panning is an issue. Originally, if I recall correctly, you couldn't pan (like the Roland VR series); they instituted panning but the hard pan for organ is still like 80/20, you can hear a large amount of sound coming out the other jack; I found no way of defeating it, rendering the panning solution fairly useless.

 

It depends on what a person wants from an organ. If you want a keyboard that covers a lot of bases and has drawbars, it"s worth considering. There are other keyboards from Korg, Yamaha, Kurzweil, and maybe others, that have 'drawbar organ' capabilities, but they don"t slavishly copy every thing about a tonewheel organ. The Dexibell J7 has a lot more going for it, than just a drawbar organ.

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It depends on what a person wants from an organ. If you want a keyboard that covers a lot of bases and has drawbars, it"s worth considering. There are other keyboards from Korg, Yamaha, Kurzweil, and maybe others, that have 'drawbar organ' capabilities, but they don"t slavishly copy every thing about a tonewheel organ. The Dexibell J7 has a lot more going for it, than just a drawbar organ.

I spent hours on it considering it as a replacement for my aging PC3; at the end of the day it is not up to par for me. As you indicated, it depends on what you want from the keyboard. It didn't turn out to be the substituting option I was hoping for.

 

Here's a review I did of the board: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2957585/Dexibell_Combo_J7_demo

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Dyin Breed Band

Exit 93 Band

 

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If I could choose any of the clones I would take the XK5, I believe it sounds the most authentic all the way around (except for the internal Leslie). Played into a leslie I can't really distinguish it from the real deal, especially given the fact that no two hammonds sound alike.

Played through a real Leslie, based on online demos, I think numerous clones may be sufficiently indistinguishable from the real thing. Related, the thing you seem to dislike most about the latest Dexibell implementation is that it still lacks cabinet emulation (good point, btw)... which of course would no longer be an issue if you put it through a real 122. But as you said, the lack of effective panning kind of precludes that, unless you write off a lot of the board's other capabilities, in which case, why bother? Except maybe for the moving drawbars, which are cool. (And of course, few of us are playing these things through real Leslies in the first place.)

 

It depends on what a person wants from an organ. If you want a keyboard that covers a lot of bases and has drawbars, it"s worth considering. There are other keyboards from Korg, Yamaha, Kurzweil, and maybe others, that have 'drawbar organ' capabilities, but they don"t slavishly copy every thing about a tonewheel organ. The Dexibell J7 has a lot more going for it, than just a drawbar organ.

If you want a 7x-key semi-weighted cover-all-the-bases board, there's a pretty wide selection these days... at least these:

 

Vox Continental

Roland VR-730

Hammond SK1

Nord Electro 6 and Nord Stage 3

Dexibell J7 Combo

Kurzweil Artis 7

 

Each has some unique things going for it. For the J7, besides the moving drawbars, it has the advantages of being able to load soundfonts, and it is strong in split/layer functions and seamless sound transitions

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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What the hell is a "Dexibell?"

 

A fairly new Italian manufacturer that has a lot of ex-Roland people working for them. This is the J7 referenced in this thread.

combo-01.jpg

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, MX61, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Behringer CAT

Yamaha Pacifica 112V & APX600 | Washburn WI64 | Ibanez BTB-675 | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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You would think that after Hammond/Suzuki's bonehead move to use "drawfaders" no one would make that mistake again. I was hoping manufacturers would get smarter over time. I guess not.

 

*mmmm FEELS GOOD!!!!!*

'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo
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You would think that after Hammond/Suzuki's bonehead move to use "drawfaders" no one would make that mistake again.

To the contrary, I think it's become more common! But I really like the motorization idea (even more if you're only going to have one set).

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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