D.Triny Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: [b] Cool. Any effect on latency? Inquiring minds want to know. :D - Jeff[/b][/quote] for me not noticeable, and in -some- cases sample accurate playback is achieved. this can be tested by doing the following 1) bounce DXi/VSTi track to audio in SONAR 2) Reverse the phase of the bounced track 3) Play them both back and observe digital silence DXi/VSTi latency on paper may not be as good as GigaX, but in practice it's definitely as good or better than hardware, and once you figure that many tracks are going to be quantized anyway and played back at "0" latency, the focus starts to shift to convenience in the tracking/composing/archival process in the context of other MIDI software synth and audio tracks. That's what makes integrated architectures like DXi/VSTi very attractive. Now a product like GigaStudio 32 already has it's voice count capped at 32 voices, so there's no polyphony argument to be made when other less powerful yet integrated technologies can achieve 64, 96, even 128+. There's no reason (IMO) why GigaStudio 32 shouldn't be -additionaly- offered in an integrated "User Mode" architecture. -david abraham [ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: David Abraham Fenton ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy: [b] Souds like a great plan to me! Hope it works for you. Which Giga libraries are you getting? - Jeff[/b][/quote] GigaPiano - I figured that the fast attacks would be a good latency test, plus I've heard this piano, and anybody who hears it wants it. Garritan Strings - Torture test for large files (and large numbers of files). Q-Up Sounds of Native America - No special reason, except that I've wanted this library for years. If the Garritan strings work out, I might invest in some Miroslav CD's. Some of the guitar stuff sounds really good, also. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 The adapter doesn't introduce any latencey that I could hear.But in the same computer I still take Giga because VSTi's eat CPU.If your going to use an assortment of other VSTis and plugs and Halion or Sampletank in the same program your CPU is going to get eaten up a lot faster,so is your ram.Faster cpu's or the VST system link will negate all that but the link requires another PC or Mac.Giga still holds a big edge in my mind.Contrary to Davids idea if it runs directly in a host program the CPU issue will rear it's head.I personally run it on the same machine as Sonar on a second card and love the low CPU overhead and no latencey or glitching.I like it just the way it is. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m2 Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 [ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: macle96@yahoo.com ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Alndln@hotmail.com: [b]The adapter doesn't introduce any latencey that I could hear.But in the same computer I still take Giga because VSTi's eat CPU.If your going to use an assortment of other VSTis and plugs and Halion or Sampletank in the same program your CPU is going to get eaten up a lot faster,so is your ram.Faster cpu's or the VST system link will negate all that but the link requires another PC or Mac.Giga still holds a big edge in my mind.Contrary to Davids idea if it runs directly in a host program the CPU issue will rear it's head.I personally run it on the same machine as Sonar on a second card and love the low CPU overhead and no latencey or glitching.I like it just the way it is.[/b][/quote] In my experience CPU consumption varies greatly among VSTi and DXi's, it's not simply a matter whether it runs directly in the host or not. The other thing that puzzles me is why this has become a dichotomony among many Giga users. Take Native Instruments for example. They offer their instruments in both Standalone and integrated solutions. They don't involve users in this architectural debate at all. They reach out to both types of users. The only reason that I'm passionate about it is investment protection. Fine Giga libraries like Bob Clearmountain, GrooverMasters, Will Lee Bass library (really users should buy the AKAI versions of these) etc, are all suitable to be run in an integrated architecture, but this will never happen because of the notion that Giga technology is not suitable -for anyone- to run directly in the host. I really can't participate in that message particularly when I've encountered so many new users who simply want to run a few high quality sampled instruments along side their disk based audio tracks but have mistakenly invested in a technology and versions of libraries that cater to only one kind of usage scenario. I suppose it's not really my problem. But when one has experienced the "relief" or "aha!" of so many users who've taken their AKAI Spectrasonics libraries out of Giga and used them in an integrated sampler instead ...it's hard not to continue to help out. It would be so much better to just be able to say "sure you can do that with GigaX" -david abraham [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: David Abraham Fenton ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Giga is totally integrated with any sequencer,minus the CPU strain.Not that big of a deal if all your running is the sampler but a really big one if your running a lot of tracks/plugs/other VSTi's ect.At least in my experience.Also being able to create my own samples was more important to me than exsisting library's,but that's me. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Alndln@hotmail.com: [b]Giga is totally integrated with any sequencer,minus the CPU strain.[/b][/quote] totally is a -very- strong word there :) And I'm pretty sure Giga consumes some CPU. CPU consumption, polyphony and overhead constraints in the context of the creative process are all things that could managed by the user, it doesn't have to be pre-determined by design choice. But it looks like that's the way it will be for Giga for the forseeable future. -david abraham [ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: David Abraham Fenton ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted January 22, 2002 Author Share Posted January 22, 2002 [b]Three Things:[/b] 1) I agree that HALion [i]and[/i] Gigastudio are better than either HALion or Gigastudio by themselves. 2) I spoke with someone from Audio Ease at the NAMM Show. He said that all of the problems of integrating HALion into Digital Performer have now been solved with the newest version of VST Wrapper (3.0). 3) [b]Jeff[/b], thanks for the Tascam take comparing the two systems. How much of what you shared about how HALion operates under Windows applies to Mac OS 9 and X? Also, now that Mac OS X and onward will have a UNIX underpinning, what are the problems one would encounter in porting Gigasampler to access UNIX at the kernel level? Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Klopmeyer Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by soapbox: [b]How much of what you shared about how HALion operates under Windows applies to Mac OS 9 and X?[/b][/quote] Since the purpose of that document was to do as close to an apples-to-apples comparison as possible (ha! "apples"! never mind), I don't have statistics in front of my in regard to Mac performance of Halion. I'll see if my tech folks have anything and post back, but I won't speculate without the proper data. [quote][b]Also, now that Mac OS X and onward will have a UNIX underpinning, what are the problems one would encounter in porting Gigasampler to access UNIX at the kernel level?[/b][/quote] The good news is that before OS X, I would have said that there's no way possible that it could ever be ported over. Keep in mind that it would have to be re-written from the ground up rather than ported. But as I said, that was before the Unix-based development of OS X. We have a great relationship with Apple, and actually met with their head music/audio marketing and technical staff at the NAMM show to discuss this. It's still not as easy a task at it would seem on the surface, but I'm not willing to make any statements in either direction (though I will tell you that the current company position is that we are not pursuing this direction for the time being). Apple has some good suggestions in this regard, but at the same time we have some development plans to improve Giga that will be eating up much of our engineering resources. It's tough to say which is a higher priority between making big advancements using only the current PC platform, or holding back on those advancements to work on the Mac compatibility. This is the nature of the technology business. There are lots of roads that all lead to cool destinations. Which way to go? You can only hope that your instincts are accurate and you take the path that's best for you and your customers. - Jeff Marketing Communications for MI/Pro Audio My solo music and stuff They Stole My Crayon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergievsky Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 The best thing about Giga in comparison to Halion I would guess to be its maturity. I jumped in at 900bucks for GigaSAMPLER 1.0, and really its come a long way towards getting to where its at regarding capability and stability. And that's really where I'm hoping Tascam will take it, keep it STABLE and EFFICIENT. I really don't care about Mac compatibility. I hated PCs but Giga was worth adding a dedicated pc to the setup. Besides, who needs the latency and problems in trying to squeeze everything in one computer. Too many deadlines to meet to be wasting time troubleshooting. Integrating the editor better should be priority. For me (and most likely I would be the only one), an integrated midi only sequencer would be cool. Then I won't have to bring my mac setup when I lay-in tracks at another studio, nor would I have to deal with incompatible PC audio sequencers messing with Giga. Better yet, how 'bout this...the new TASCAM GIGAKEYS! 88note keyboard with built in sequencer, using any IDE laptop hard disks for ultra reliability! :D Raul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Two of the Giga libraries arrived today. Garritan strings are on backorder. Very prompt service for the in stock titles, though - thanks Jeff and company! :) HAL should be here in another day or two... The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 Zoot alors! Logic 4.8 seems to have problems loading HALion libraries in to HALion - I don't even want to TRY the Giga libraries. HALion complains that some of the files were not loaded properly. Must be, because it won't make a sound. Program loading and storage has always been a problem with Logic's VST 2 implementation, so I guess I'm not too surprised. Logic 5 should be out in a couple more weeks, so I try again at that point. I don't have all of the Giga disks yet, anyway. If that doesn't work, I may have to wait until EXS24 supports streaming (rumor is that they're working on it). I like the sound and programmability of EXS24 a lot, so it would be great if they can figure out how to get it to load Giga sounds. If all else fails, I'll get a Giga system. I'm trying like crazy to avoid buying a whole computer just to run a sampler, though. The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted January 25, 2002 Share Posted January 25, 2002 [quote]Originally posted by Dan South: [b] If that doesn't work, I may have to wait until EXS24 supports streaming (rumor is that they're working on it). I like the sound and programmability of EXS24 a lot, so it would be great if they can figure out how to get it to load Giga sounds. If all else fails, I'll get a Giga system. I'm trying like crazy to avoid buying a whole computer just to run a sampler, though.[/b][/quote] enjoy the journey :) on the other hand the future of libraries may be integration with host agnostic sample engines, like the new stuff Spectrasonics is doing ( http://www.spectrasonics.net/instruments/index.html ) -david abraham [ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: David Abraham Fenton ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted February 4, 2002 Author Share Posted February 4, 2002 I just finished reading Craig's review of HALion in this month's (February 2002) Keyboard magazine. In the review, Craig includes reasons why GigaSampler libraries don't always load correctly into HALion and tips on how to fix some of the loading mistakes. Craig used HALion with both a Mac and a PC, and he had trouble installing HALion properly. ([b]Craig[/b], did that problem occur on [i]both[/i] the Mac and the PC?) He went on to give remedies in case the reader has the same problems. There was a lot more of interest to the review, which honored HALion with a "Key Buy" award, but why don't you pick up a copy of Keyboard magazine and read it for yourself? ;) Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan South Posted February 4, 2002 Share Posted February 4, 2002 What I really need is some tips in how to get Logic to load ANYTHING in HALion. Logic doesn't have a VST Bank Load feature, so I can't even load HALion banks. Better luck next release... The Black Knight always triumphs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted February 5, 2002 Author Share Posted February 5, 2002 My question: [quote][i]Originally posted by soapbox:[/i] [b]Craig[/b], did that problem occur on [i]both[/i] the Mac and the PC?[/quote] [b]Craig[/b]'s answer: [quote][i]Originally [url=http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=004234]posted[/url] by Anderton:[/i] I didn't have the same installation problems on the Mac, but only because doing it on the PC showed me what mistakes to avoid. I've been using HALion a lot. One thing I've discovered post-review is that some of the modulation works in ways where I'm still scratching my head. The manual is terrible at explaining all the scaling stuff. I've hit on the right combinations by accident, but am not quite sure how I got there.... My single biggest piece of advice: before doing ANY editing, always check to make sure you're working on selections, and not All (unless, of course, you want to affect all samples). Also check that you're relative, not absolute, editing mode (again, unless you really do want all parameters to change to absolute values). Glad you found the review informative!![/quote] P.S. [b]Dan[/b], sorry to read about your troubles using HALion within Logic Audio. I bet you're right that Logic Audio 5.0 will solve the problem. Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbox Posted March 25, 2002 Author Share Posted March 25, 2002 [b][i]Bump![/i][/b] :eek: Enthusiasm powers the world. Craig Anderton's Archiving Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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