sign Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I think it's good to stand still by this. How many (young) men lost their lives in the beginning of the liberation of Europe? Let's pay some respect, without their sacrifice I probably would have spoken the German language, which I hate. Let's not forget to be thankful. The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I hope that if the French ever get so mad at us that they decide they want all Americans out of their country, they'll at least give us time to dig up all the bodies we left there in two wars we fought to help insure their liberties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: I hope that if the French ever get so mad at us that they decide they want all Americans out of their country, they'll at least give us time to dig up all the bodies we left there in two wars we fought to help insure their liberties.Um... yeah... sure... any word of the French taking such a stance? Or is this just hypothetical jingoistic xenophobia? anyway... it's profoundly horrible to contemplate what it was like to scale that beach- it was for no great ideal that those men died, just sheer bloody pragmatism- a lot of people would have to die to gain that military foothold, so send them off to die or just maybe make it through intact. For those involved, it was impossibly horrible, grim, senseless, and painful, I can only think. Only in retrospect can there be the consolation of philosophy- that perhaps it was worth it, for some highblown motive. To be following orders, and these are your orders- incomprehensible. You're out there in the water, people are getting blown apart all around, what to do? Nowhere to go but forward into the impossible... There's something here far deeper than the political reasons that this happened. When that kind of horror takes place... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Ted Nightshade: Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe: I hope that if the French ever get so mad at us that they decide they want all Americans out of their country, they'll at least give us time to dig up all the bodies we left there in two wars we fought to help insure their liberties.Um... yeah... sure... any word of the French taking such a stance? Or is this just hypothetical jingoistic xenophobia? A fairly recent example, which to be fair, the French government condemned: http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/9326.html And while you may not like what I said, I can't take credit for it. In the 1960s, France, under Charles DeGaulle, left the NATO Nuclear Planning Group and established its own nuclear forces. This caused considerable strain with Franco - American relations. In 1966, DeGaulle insisted that all American soldiers in France leave. Then Secretary of State Dean Rusk asked him "Does that include the dead Americans in military cemeteries as well?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Phil, I apologize for the harsh tone I addressed you in. Hot head got the better of me. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by sign: I think it's good to stand still by this. How many (young) men lost their lives in the beginning of the liberation of Europe? Let's pay some respect, without their sacrifice I probably would have spoken the German language, which I hate. Let's not forget to be thankful.Han, I appreciate your sentiment. I too am very grateful for the many men and women who lost their lives not only defending our freedom, but in fact creating that freedom in the first place! In that spirit, while I agree the French owe us a debt of gratitude, I also recognize and appreciate the French troops who died helping to establish the United States of America. Many of them are buried on our soil as well. I hope that neither they nor we lose sight of our common values. I only wish all of the nations involved could unite more often as we did today. It gives me hope when we exhibit our higher selves. Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Don't sweat it Ted. PS I hate politics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sign Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Geoff, thanks for the positiveness of your response. Phil, I hate politics too. I just watched a documentary at Discovery Channel about the landings on the Normandy coast with the real pictures. The beaches and sea covered with dead bodies, people without arms, legs and even their head shot off. It was horrible, gruesome and I am aware of the sacrifice these men and women brought for us. I was only one year old at that time, but I am really and deeply grateful for what they did. Let's not make this a political thread please. Peace to all of you, Han The alchemy of the masters moving molecules of air, we capture by moving particles of iron, so that the poetry of the ancients will echo into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Geoff Grace: In that spirit, while I agree the French owe us a debt of gratitude, What? No one owes anyone anything. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Let's look at the truth here. The United States Of America did not get involved in World War II until the whole of Europe except for England had been conquered by Hitler. This is NOT something to hold up as a great thing. Is it? Do you take pride in that? We finally got involved in World War II when we were attacked by Japan. We were FORCED to enter a war, that we should have entered years earlier. If The French feel some gratitude towards us for D-Day, then I flip my beret towards them, a great people, if not, I'm OK with that too, they're still a great people. I'm just sick of hearing this shit about The Americans, The Great Heroes. We weren't heroes, we did what we had to fucking do...... to survive..... and that's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 and then the flip side of that is.... what if The U.S. hadn't been there? There is no flipside! We were there, and that's what happened, and we barely pulled it out of the fucking frying pan, and the whole world almost went down into some cosmic Fascist shithole, if not for.........god knows what? Seriously, I don't know HOW, we came out of that. If you read the History of that War, all was lost, and yet somehow, we came through......... and for that....I am eternally HAPPY! WE BEAT EVIL! I think that's what happened when Hitler was destroyed. WE BEAT EVIL! and that my friends, is something to rejoice about!!!!! Everyday We beat evil just my take on things, sorry for the rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcohol_ Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I don't recall the French being mad at us. I recall them advising us that invading Iraq was not a good idea, and they were not going to participate in that folly. Members of the US government and some members of the the population are mad at France for not kowtowing to the bogus authority of the Bush administration. That's not a sin from my perspective as an American citizen but a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 That's the way I feel also alcohol. We have a disagreement on foreign policy, nothing else. Personally, I have nothing but the utmost respect for The French People. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Base Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 And of course there are a lot of American's and Brit's that never wanted us in Iraq, no doubt there are French that thought they should have been there, you can't paint the entire country (any one of them) on what the governments decided to do... And Wewus, while I agree with your statement about doing what you had to to survive, every man from whatever nationality that set foot on that beach 60 years ago should be remembered as a hero Fa Fa FA Fa fa fa fa fa FA fa FA FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Yeah, Phil, I'd have to reckon that "vile graffiti" story as an example of vandalism by a small group of jerks...not as the opinion of a wide group of French. My hat is off to everyone, American, British, Canadian, Australian, everyone who went ashore...and especially those who made it no further. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wewus432 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Base: And Wewus, while I agree with your statement about doing what you had to to survive, every man from whatever nationality that set foot on that beach 60 years ago should be remembered as a heroI don't think there are any real heroes. We all do the best we can, in what ever situation we are put in. Some men are braver than others, and to them is.......the greater glory, but the best thing for us all, is to stop hurting each other, and then we can tell some better stories.....about... the beauty of life itself. These are the greatest stories to be told, and they are yet to come. I believe that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Originally posted by Rog: Originally posted by Geoff Grace: In that spirit, while I agree the French owe us a debt of gratitude, What? No one owes anyone anything.Rog, I'm not sure why you chose to quote me out of context this way. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you misunderstood me rather than that you would purposely misrepresent me. My point is that, if we Americans expect the French to be grateful for our help in liberating them, then we should also be grateful for their help in creating our country. If the French owe us, then we owe them. The point of what we'd given the French had already been made by another poster. You singled out my acknowledgement of that point and ignored what I added to balance it. You made it appear as if I wrote "Yes" when I wrote was essentially "Yes, but..." Perhaps the word "owe" was a poor choice. If it bothers you, I'm sorry. Please forget that I used it, because more than being beside my point, it counteracts it when singled out this way. What I apparently failed to communicate is that if we were all constantly in a state of gratitude for one another, the world would be a much better place. That's my point without the distraction of semantics. That's what I meant when I used the words, "higher selves." I hope you see that what I was driving at is really quite different than completely disregarding my gratitude for "the French troops who died helping to establish the United States of America" and singling out my words "the French owe us a debt of gratitude!" In all honesty, it was very frustrating to see my intent reversed in this way. I'm sad that you don't know me better by now! Here, again, is what I wrote quote in context: Originally posted by Geoff Grace: Han, I appreciate your sentiment. I too am very grateful for the many men and women who lost their lives not only defending our freedom, but in fact creating that freedom in the first place! In that spirit, while I agree the French owe us a debt of gratitude, I also recognize and appreciate the French troops who died helping to establish the United States of America. Many of them are buried on our soil as well. I hope that neither they nor we lose sight of our common values. I only wish all of the nations involved could unite more often as we did today. It gives me hope when we exhibit our higher selves.Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Sorry Geoff, I apologise. I should have read your post more thoroughly before diving in. "That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Thanks Rog. I think we've all misread a post at one time or another. My frustration is gone. Since we're on the subject of gratitude, I am grateful that you gave me the second chance to express my point. I think I finally got to the heart of it the second time around in the sentence I put in bold above. That wouldn't have happened without your misunderstanding. You've also helped me find answers in past threads, and I grateful for that as well. Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylen Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 a little late here... I spent yesterday listening to Big Band Swing music and remembering in my own way... God bless all the folks in every land who killed the cancer of the Nazis and the poisonous wind from across the Pacific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Base Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Originally posted by TheWewus: I don't think there are any real heroes. We all do the best we can, in what ever situation we are put in. I don't agree with this at all!!! How many people followed their (perfectly understandable) natural instinct on 911 to get the heck out of the buildings compared to the ones that ran IN!! the best thing for us all, is to stop hurting each other, and then we can tell some better stories.....about... the beauty of life itself. These are the greatest stories to be told, and they are yet to come. I believe that I agree wholeheartedly with this tho, well said... Fa Fa FA Fa fa fa fa fa FA fa FA FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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