Muad’Dib Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 With so many synths. How does one not get a bad case of GAS! This all seems a bit overwhelming? With Behringer cloning every conceivable vintage synth, and KORG relaunching ARP? Plus new and classic synths? How would one choose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I admit that I stopped keeping up with new products years ago, too many to keep track of. The cloning product strategy isn't all bad. Like the Les Paul and the Strat, some things are just hard to improve and they just WORK. Vintage synths went neglected for a long time before they were rediscovered, but not before they needed plenty of restoration. There's a demand for "that sound", and the cloners are filling that demand. That the initial production of KARP 2600s sold out even before it was shown at NAMM says something. Cloning ARPs are a good target because you don't have to worry about slidepots that stop working due to age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuelBLupowitz Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Between my Macbook and my iPad, both of which have worked their way into my various gigging rigs, I can access zillions of sounds and softsynths, which I can route and instance in nearly infinite ways. So why do I want all these synthesizers so badly? Quote Samuel B. Lupowitz Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 IMO, the immediacy of sound design capabilities and sonic goodness an analog synth provides makes it a fun instrument. The synth explosion will last as long as the instant gratification cannot be reproduced or replaced by another KB or software. Quote PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRollins Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 My problem with anything PC-based is that you're one operating system version change away from obsolescence. Then you have to buy a new version to fit Windows XP/7/8/10...29 or whatever (ditto Apple). Show me a piece of software that still works after 10-20 years (and who knows how many operating system versions). A Moog from the '70s may need some maintenance, but so would a PC of equivalent age, only there's no DOS software still operative, know what I mean? And let's not get into trying to find a replacement hard drive for, say, an IBM XT. Oh, wait, current software won't even fit on a 10MB hard drive. And the Moog has resale value. PCs that old aren't good for anything. Hell, PCs over three to five years old aren't worth much. Software resale value? You guessed it. Zilch. I've got a Fender bass that's near as old as I am. It has value. Even a mainframe computer (no PCs back then) wouldn't run current software and has close to zero value except as salvage. I just don't see anything based on a PC as a good investment, long term. Gimme hardware. Grey Quote I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 It ends when market demand ends. Market demand exists because the originals got prohibitively expensive to the point of becoming museum pieces for collectors. The market will adjust. Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marczellm Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 But I have a hard time believing that the market is expanding so much that a lot of new manufacturers are entering it (as opposed to the big old ones - Moog, Korg, Roland, Yamaha, Kurzweil, Nord). I can't even keep track of the brands now, not even the instruments! John Bowen, UDO, ASM, Analogue Solutions, Modal, etc. etc. Also the manufacturers are expanding their palette and treading each other's ground. Yamaha has never done something like the new YC. Roland hasn't done analogue and true VA for quite a long time before the AIRA line / JD-XA. Quote Life is subtractive.Genres: Jazz, funk, pop, Christian worship, BebHop Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symph pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G. KingKORG. SP6 at church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 How do I choose? Somehow I can find enough nit-picky things to rule out most of them And when I can't, it's usually because it's too much $$ so the price rules it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 How do I choose? Somehow I can find enough nit-picky things to rule out most of them And when I can't, it's usually because it's too much $$ so the price rules it out! Like the new ARP 2600, from KORG? Roland"s entire Boutique line comes to mind? I know, some people complain about mini or micro keys: i.e. the Roland JD-xi or the MicroKORG, well that has lasted over a decade and sold well. Although, not for keyboard paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 How would one choose? Ask yourself 3 questions (be honest with your answers): Do I really need to buy a new keyboard? Will buying a new keyboard improve the way I write and play music? Have I exhausted the features/capabilities of my existing keyboard(s)? I haven't purchased any new music gear in 6+ years... very satisfied with what I currently own. I still watch demo videos of new synths when posted here on the forum, but that's all. Quote When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardware Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I answer all 3 questions with a big Yes. WaveState is my choice. It"s fresh and way more capable than the original, or any Waldorf variation. Makes me smile, makes me think outside the norm, and I"m hacking off the keys instead of waiting for the desktop. Quote Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 How do I choose? Somehow I can find enough nit-picky things to rule out most of them And when I can't, it's usually because it's too much $$ so the price rules it out! Like the new ARP 2600, from KORG? Roland"s entire Boutique line comes to mind? I know, some people complain about mini or micro keys: i.e. the Roland JD-xi or the MicroKORG, well that has lasted over a decade and sold well. Although, not for keyboard paying. My own requirements are for live, so I usually come up with a whole host of things I "can't live without". The reality is I could gig with just about anything and nobody would complain if I was in tune and on time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffincltnc Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I need a Jupiter X to play some Duran Duran covers. After that, I swear I will NEVER need to buy another new synth again, right? Quote Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Sure. Until the next new thing comes along. Quote When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRollins Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 I've quit making that promise, except in jest. Grey Quote I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael_I Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 My problem with anything PC-based is that you're one operating system version change away from obsolescence. Grey Sampling is the answer to this. Sounds that I find valuable are sampled. Doesn't matter if they are on a hardware synth or a soft-synth. I am building a library that is in straight WAV files. Ultimately, I can and will sell hardware synths. Software will go out of date. WAV files aren't going anywhere anytime soon. I have them in a particular piece of software today (UVI's Falcon), but the raw material can easily be mapped in other software. I even have software to do this mapping (Chicken Systems Translator) that has been around 20 years. Obsolescence is real. Even professional grade wind instruments wear out. Guitar fretboards wear out. Pianos wear out. Hardware synths have less life expectancy than my grand piano by at least half. So even hardware isn't a lifetime purchase. I'm much happier thinking of my hardware synths as temporary generators, but thinking of my personal sample library as my investment. It has a much better chance of weathering the years than the hardware. Some of the hardware is "because I can" - like the Minimoog Model D re-issue. There are great software and hardware alternatives that are less money. It's a pretty limited synth. But it is cool. It is history. It is fun to play. It isn't going anywhere. It doesn't have patch memory. But my sampler fixes that. Now my Minimoog can have presets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRollins Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Guitars and basses can be refretted, after which they're essentially as good as new. I don't know how many Stradivarius violins, violas, cellos, etc. have worn out, but the ones I've heard still seem to be working okay. The same can't be said for software. Imagine, if you will, a functional 300 year-old piece of software. Boggles the imagination, it does. Samples are fragile, too. WAV files are subject to the same threat of obsolescence as the software they run on. All it will take is an industry turn towards, say, FLAC, and you're toast. The optimistic response to that is something along the lines of, "But all I have to do is translate the WAV files into FLAC with my handy-jim-dandy ConvertAll app!" But... The whole point of FLAC (and other so-called "lossless" file formats) is that they sound better. You can't make up the deficit in sound quality in a WAV file no matter what you do, and that's setting aside conversion errors that creep in, causing a loss of sound quality when going from one format to another. Meanwhile, my 1960 Fender Precision just keeps trucking...along with all those old 'Burst Les Pauls and early Stratocasters and old Martins and... (My P-bass still has the original frets, by the way...) Grey Quote I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael_I Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 I've got the basses and guitars, sweet amps, and a piano too. I get it. But, there's nothing permanent. Everything takes maintenance to persist. It is interesting how quickly towns or roads vanish if they are left to the wild. Technology is certainly that way. BTW, there's no deficit in a WAV file. It is the canonical audio format. Its pretty literally the output of the converters with a small header. FLAC doesn't sound better or worse. Its a smaller file size due to compression. WAV is a very, very simple wrapper. If it goes away, there will not be any loss in moving it to something else - I have the canonical audio. A new wrapper for whatever is the next uncompressed audio format will be easy to transition to without any quality loss. Header change won't change the payload. And, for better or worse - its the best that can be done right now. What is certain is that synths don't seem to age all that well compared to the instruments you mentionedl. But what is true is that sonic standards and tastes evolve. Will I really want the exact same synth patch 30 years from now? Who knows. I might be just as happy making new things then as I am now. The fact is that we are all creators. And creators create. So the instrument is much less important than the player/composer. I don't wish my studio to burn down. But if it did, I'd get other instruments, and keep going. So, I'm somewhat pragmatic about it at this point. Do what can be done, but know that in the long run, it will be fine, however it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRollins Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 We each have our own money and can spend it in any way that suits us. I'm nowhere near as confident in the permanence of any PC-based technology as you seem to be. If you think your WAV collection is a good investment, then more power to you. In the long run I believe you'll find that you've built your house on sand, but...it's your money and if it's giving you pleasure in the near term then hopefully you'll feel that it was money well spent. Grey Quote I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markyboard Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Show me a piece of software that still works after 10-20 years (and who knows how many operating system versions). A Moog from the '70s may need some maintenance, but so would a PC of equivalent age, only there's no DOS software still operative, know what I mean? Here are a few factual data points based on my history: 1) Korg Legacy Collection: Purchased March 2005. Updated to Digital Edition in 2006. Used originally on Dell PC with Win ME followed by three self-built I7 PCs w/ Win XP, Win 7 and now Win 10 respectively. Korg provided 64 bit upgrade in 2013 (for $15 shipping iirc) but orig (32 bit) still works 2) GSI MrRay Mk2, purchased Oct 2008, still works - just checked (same PC history as above). 3) NI B4 and FM7 purchased in Jan 2004 - upgrade to B4 II in Nov 2005 and Komplete7 in 2011. Originals still work. 4) OP-X Pro II...well you get the point I could go on but I'm fairly certain every VST I ever purchased still works - almost all are 64 bit now but iirc no manufacturer charged money just for that. Hardware? 1) RME HDSPe AES-32 PCIe sound card purchased in Apr 2009. Use it every day and they still sell it and periodically update the drivers. 2) HT Omega eClaro Sound Card ( used for PC monitors) purchased Apr 2012 - still use it every day. Anyway....hardware's great, software's great. Buy/use whatever you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Show me a piece of software that still works after 10-20 years (and who knows how many operating system versions). A Moog from the '70s may need some maintenance, but so would a PC of equivalent age, only there's no DOS software still operative, know what I mean? I had Cakewalk Pro Audio with Music Quest MQX32M MIDI card running on a circa-1993 WFW311 computer since 1995. If it ain't broke, I don't fix it. I don't use plugins and the computer was strictly dedicated for music and nothing else. Flawless until the motherboard failed early last year. They don't make 'em like they used to. I only upgraded because you can't buy a new motherboard with ISA slots for the MIDI card. Anyway....hardware's great, software's great. Buy/use whatever you like. Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael_I Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 If you look into audio archiving, the important thing is to separate the audio from ANY computer program or OS. WAV files are NOT tied to any particular computer, program or plugin - that's the point. Sure, software prepared the WAV, and software opens and plays the WAV file. But once it is prepared or recorded, it is no longer dependent on that computer or software to have use or value. There's no long term guarantee that old session files, plugins, will remain openable or run on newer versions of the same software. That's why WAV files work as an archival format. The spec was originally released in 1991 (29 years ago). All those files still play identically, despite the dozens of OS's, and thousands of programs that have gone by the wayside. Photographers export uncompressed BMP and TIFF images for the same reason - Photoshop will come and go, but the finished images will still be openable in something. The samples I make run on my DAW (Windows), my laptop rig (OS X) without any difference. I can take those same samples and put them in a Nord or a Kronos. If UVI (Falcon) goes under or Kontakt, the WAV files will still load into some sampler. It takes literally 10-15 min to tweak the samples into playable shape. Not perfect, but far from a big deal. Composers and producers regularly export final copies of mixes and then mix stems that rendered through all plugins and processing (even external gear). In this way, the mix can be reconstructed without opening any session files. If the stem WAV files are all placed on a timeline and played together, the final mix is the result. This is how masters are being archived. Cubase/Nuendo just got a new export utility that makes it trivial to render out the stems properly. ProTools has had this for a while. Of course, the session files are saved too, but they are not as permanent. And, as always with digital data, 3 copies is minimum. Cloud storage is wonderful for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 I've been whining about less multi-timbrality these days (maybe it's not so true), but obviously analog is cheap to build and to program. Easier to copy that to debug something totally new. So I can really just drop some of these nuggets, a model D or Neutron, RD-8, DM12 on various channels and be plenty multi-timbral. So why do I feel such a pull to one of those Andromedas? Wake me when there is a worthy 16 Channel analog clone to that one. Quote RT-3/U-121/Leslie 21H and 760/Saltarelle Nuage/MOXF6/MIDIhub, SL-880/Nektar T4/Numa Cx2/Deepmind12/Virus TI 61/SL61 mk2 Stylophone R8/Behringer RD-8/Proteus 1/MP-7/Zynthian 4 MPC1k/JV1010/Unitor 8/Model D & 2600/WX-5&7/VL70m/DMP-18 Pedals Natal drums/congas etc & misc bowed/plucked/blown instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRollins Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Flawless until the motherboard failed early last year. I only upgraded because you can't buy a new motherboard with ISA slots for the MIDI card. Yep. That. Grey Quote I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 With so many synths. How does one not get a bad case of GAS! This all seems a bit overwhelming? With Behringer cloning every conceivable vintage synth, and KORG relaunching ARP? Plus new and classic synths? How would one choose? Choose only the ones that truly inspire you and allow you to say something different or sound different from what you've already got. All else is just GAS and is a waste of money and time. Quote Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardEric Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 All else is just GAS and is a waste of money and time. Even GAS will pass with time. Quote dreamcommander.bandcamp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad’Dib Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 All else is just GAS and is a waste of money and time. Even GAS will pass with time. Sorry, didn"t mean to break wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 http://www.kappit.com/img/pics/201411_2034_iiifi_sm.jpg Quote When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mike Metlay Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 GAS is just a manifestation of our floating existence in the world of Maya. Our endless quest for more material things leads only to dissatisfaction and sorrow, as we lose sight of the eternal truths that ultimately lead to Enlightenment. Also, money. Quote Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1 clicky!: more about me ~ my radio station (and my fam) ~ my local tribe ~ my day job ~ my book ~ my music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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