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If Timing is everything... I'm in trouble


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I was editing some percussion and bass tracks last night, tracks I played on a fretless bass and a plastic water jug, and it reminded me of a question I've wanted to post here. I mostly record my own stuff, so there aren't many really great players tracking in my studio. Not yet, anyway. If I did have say, a really In The Pocket bass track to load up I would, just to see where the notes land with respect to the beat. I felt I was getting a pretty good feeling on the bass part, but the notes tend to fall just ahead of the beat. Actually, if you look at the waveform from a fretless electric bass, it takes a little while for it to "bloom" or ramp up while all the overtones kick in. That ramping up part of the note was all before the beat (i played with a click track, mostly quarter notes in straight time) and the loudest part of the sound tended to sit right on the beat. This has me wondering; when a really competent bass player (or any intrumentalist, really) pushes or pulls at the rhythm, how far ahead or behind the beat do they play. And do they do it on every beat? I just wanna learn to hear what "In the Pocket" sounds like, and I want to recognize it in visual editing of waveforms. -mark
Rubber Lizard Studio
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errrr, ummmmm, errr, how long is a piece of string?.... sorry, i'm not being funny but errr, i not sure there's a, umm, right answer on this one....wish i could be more helpful....but i'm sure if you somehow analyzed a James Brown or P-Funk track, and "looked" at where the beats are on the screen you would find that they are all over the shop....i think there's someway to do this in Logic but i have never tried it... peace natty [img]http://www.theunholytrinity.org/cracks_smileys/contrib/fk/butterfly.gif[/img] [ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: natty fred ]
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[quote]Originally posted by Rubber Lizard Studios: [b] This has me wondering; when a really competent bass player (or any intrumentalist, really) pushes or pulls at the rhythm, how far ahead or behind the beat do they play. And do they do it on every beat? I just wanna learn to hear what "In the Pocket" sounds like, and I want to recognize it in visual editing of waveforms. -mark[/b][/quote] Get a copy of Steely Dan's "Gaucho" and "Asia" and the new one even too! Listen to the bass and drums. That is "in the pocket" The real thing.
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I have a Drumtrax cd that is (suposed to be) real players' grooves. Being intrigued as to the nature of a blues shuffle, it was interesting to see the hits go behind and then play catch-up, graphically against a grid.

Part time -long time.

 

 

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Hey, thanks for the thoughtful input. Natty Fred, it's true that there's no one right answer, but I'm trying to learn, in general, how to really *do* what I can usually hear or feel. James B. or PFunk would be PERFECT, and the bass might be visible in a waveform editor of their music... Hmmm. Halljams, I just happen to have ALL of the Steely Dan stuff! An aside here; Is the Citizen Steely Dan stuff identical (sonically) to the originals? I suspect that the bass is not as strong, though this could be something with my monitors. Yes, THAT's in the pocket. MixSit, your suggestion is tres practical. I'll look on all my Cakewalk disks to see if there are any bass or percussion clips with the right feel.
Rubber Lizard Studio
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