PBS Frontline: The Way The Music Died

[aeon]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/music/

 

Thursday, May 27, 2004

 

check for the scheduled time in your area...

 

I know I will be watching...I hope you will as well, such that we might have some good discussion afterwards!

 

amor vincit omnia,

aeon

[DJDM]

All over it. Thanks Aeon.

[jpmiii]

Thanks for the heads up, it looks interesting.

[doug osborne]

I hope the Lakers have won before Frontline starts!

 

A local public radio station KPCC has a show called Talk of the City, and they announced that todays show will be about the music business and how record sales are down.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, I really want to watch this! I'm supposed to go to our drummer's house tonight but hopefully I'll either be home by then or we can watch it there. I never remember to turn on the damn TV on those rare occasions when there's actually something I want to watch.

[Phil B]

Thanks Aeon! This looks like a great show. I liked David Crosby's quote in the trailer ... something like "record company executives today wouldn't know a great song if it flew up their nose and died." He certainly has plenty of experience in the "flew up your nose" part.

[aeon]

my local PBS station wont be running this until Friday, May 29th...grrr

 

ah well...no problem...I will be watching it.

 

and yeah, that Crosby quote was funny and depressing both!

 

cheers,

aeon

[Alndln]

Just finished watching.Complete waste of time.Frontline must of vacated the premisis and let MTV take over in promotional mode.The people they chose to interview couldn't of been a worse choice.I really have a hard time believing Frontline had anything to do with this whatsoever.Easily the worst and most uninformative show they've ever done.Not that i expected much,but..............

[ernest828]

I just catched the last 20 minutes of it unfortunately. It looked like an interesting show. Hopefully it`ll run again. Shows like this bother me because I find them to be too true and that hurts. However, I remain dedicated to my craft. I didn`t get into music for money or fame, even though a little of each come my way now and then.

 

Ernest

[pseudonym]

Hey, I recorded it for anyone that really wants-it, just call me @ 1-800-eat-dogshit.

 

Don-a-wasta-yo-time

[Lee Flier]

Totally agree with what Alndlnbot just said. What a joke! The whole thing was a very thinly disguised promotional vehicle for a couple of artists, no journalists were in sight at all. A few people that were interviewed had a few potentially interesting things to say but there was nothing to tie it together at all. If I wasn't involved in music and was tuned in expecting to learn something about the biz, I'd have simply been totally confused. As it is I'm just amazed and disgusted that Frontline would stoop to that level. Geez.

[pseudonym]

Ok, I put it down but, really, is everyone in EL-A a flake living on planet dandruff? When I lived there in the late 70's, I don't remember it being sooooooooo, un-normal from the usual weird? Is money the only freakin' thing that enters the orbit there? Housing must be really expensive, or good drugs, or plastic surgery?????????? Sorry, I really thought I could go back someday, maybe not......

[Dennyf]

Well, this was an example of journalism that was equally as superficial as its topic.

 

There were several instances that begged for follow-up "questions" (not that they showed that part, but *someone* was asking questions) that either didn't get asked or wound up on the cutting room floor. All-in-all, I can't say it explained much of anything. I pinged on "one good song and 13 fillers" per CD, and Clear Channel controlling practically every play list in the country, but if I weren't a musician, I doubt I'd'a got anything out of it.

 

Why does everything suck?

[Raymar]

I noticed that indie artists, internet indie artists in particular, were not mentioned at all. The internet was only mentioned for the free downloads available that have ripped off the industry. How can they say the music has died?

[lrossmusic]

I agree with much mentioned already and yes I too was a bit disappointed. At any rate there were some interesting points made nonetheless and some contradictions like who and who wasn't hurt by downloading. If anything it seemed to emphasize to me how the music business is still in a major transition right now and no one has quite yet figured out what things will be like when the dust settles. Hence a lot of anxiety and near panic regarding how not to end up a casualty of change. Look what happened to the TV biz and the reality show phenomenon and to those who weren't paying attention. Or the SUV phenomenon in the auto biz.

Like everything else though, and underneath it all, people know that everything has to change and nothing is permanent so in that sense the music biz is no exception. I guess the best we all can do is try to figure out how we can adapt and survive or better yet lead the way.

[Phil B]

I agree with everyone. This show was more like a VH-1 behind the scenes than a frontline quality piece of journalism ... well, I guess "frontline quality" doesn't mean what it used to.

 

They called "The Way the Music Died," but other than a few chopped up soundbytes there was very little about that. Just two examples of people trying to make it in the industry ... and one makes it HUGE according to the end. The other has only had a couple of months to try. This wasn't about the industry at all. Like someone else said ... it sucked. Which is too bad, I was pretty excited to see it.

 

By the way, I think the Frontline site is streaming the entire show.

[tld]

Damn! I taped it last night and was/am going to watch it tonight. I was looking forward to it.

 

That's real strange for a Frontline show. If it's as bad as it sounds, that's very unlike them.

 

Perhaps we need to investigate and produce an indy documentary titled:

 

The Way "The Way the Music Died" Died

 

Tom

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by Phil B:

I agree with everyone. This show was more like a VH-1 behind the scenes than a frontline quality piece of journalism ... well, I guess "frontline quality" doesn't mean what it used to...

I have to disagree. Sad to say, but comparing this Frontline program with Behind The Music is an unfair insult to the VH-1 program. Sure, they're fluffy and the commerical in's and out's are redundant to waste time, but most Behind The Music shows have told me things about the subject I didn't already know. Such was not at all the case with the Frontline program.

 

The interesting thing, IMO, was hearing Mark Hudson and David Crosby contrast their early career experiences vs. the direction the business has gone.

[Phil B]

Originally posted by fantasticsound:

Sad to say, but comparing this Frontline program with Behind The Music is an unfair insult to the VH-1 program.

Well said - you are 100% correct. I didn't mean to offend Behind the Music

[Robman2]

They did little to address piracy and the real issues of CD costs driving kids to feel entitled to steal.

 

The commercial aspects of the biz, was non-presented as either good or bad, outside of the opine from Crosby.

 

It's still a morphing form of revenue enhancment.

 

All of the glomour biz' is a tremendous crap shoot, the reason that so much money is invested in media is the potential payout.

 

I recall some arcne statistic from a UCLA class on the ROI.

 

Something like 35% to the dollar invested.

 

That we have evolved from era to era, is testament to it being about the money, although without the art, there would be no way to game the system no matter which decade it's in.

 

The attendant and ancillary side bars could have run for another couple of hours. The demise of the studio business to digital project arrays etc.

 

R

[coyote]

I dunno... I watched it and there was a lot there to think about.

 

I don't think Frontline was looking to provide a simplistic answer. What they presented was a complex picture. Think of the Hudson girl. She wanted to be seen as an artist, yet everyone around her persuaded her she needed a 'Lauper-type' song to get on the radio. Well, as soon as you start making things specifically to get airplay you sacrifice your artist standing, and the music dies a little bit.

 

If you came to that program looking for the simple answer to the simple problem of Internet music piracy, you would indeed be disappointed. BUt it was no fluff piece; if that's all you saw in it you need to open your mind.

 

Originally posted by Robman2:

They did little to address piracy and the real issues of CD costs driving kids to feel entitled to steal.

 

The commercial aspects of the biz, was non-presented as either good or bad, outside of the opine from Crosby.

 

It's still a morphing form of revenue enhancment.

 

All of the glomour biz' is a tremendous crap shoot, the reason that so much money is invested in media is the potential payout.

 

I recall some arcne statistic from a UCLA class on the ROI.

 

Something like 35% to the dollar invested.

 

That we have evolved from era to era, is testament to it being about the money, although without the art, there would be no way to game the system no matter which decade it's in.

 

The attendant and ancillary side bars could have run for another couple of hours. The demise of the studio business to digital project arrays etc.

 

R

[Robman2]

Psudonym,

 

As far as LA and costs of housing, you get what you need and have to pay for it.

 

There's a producer in Nashville who said' For the price of a decent car lease in L. A, I get 40 acers and a huge house here".

 

That's fine, and I appreciate the place (the Blue Bird is my kind of club) I'd love to live there myself but don't.

 

What's here, and is it indicative of the Hudsoninan and Crosbyessque' view of life and business?

 

Perhaps not?

 

Since you left before the 80's, the Country Club and Palomino are gone, FM Station is now all Mexican all the time.

 

The Roxy, Whisky and Troubrador are all Indie, punk and metal.

 

Western Recorders has changed hands a couple of times and is again for sale.

 

Glen Ballard still accepts cold call submissions C/O Capitol records, Hollywood, CA. and so on.

 

The sun shines a lot, traffic is no worse the the loop or Orlando.

 

You can drive from the snow to Gladstone's and have a tropical drink on the ocean a couple of hours after snow boarding.

 

The proximity to Anza Borrego, Joshua Tree, Death Valley, Vegas, The Kern river, etc, make it an ideal place to live.

 

As a 9th generation native, my two cents is please, by all means stay away if it makes you unhappy.

 

No malice, just feel it perhaps, is not your cup of tea.

 

Rob

[fantasticsound]

Originally posted by coyote:

...If you came to that program looking for the simple answer to the simple problem of Internet music piracy, you would indeed be disappointed. BUt it was no fluff piece; if that's all you saw in it you need to open your mind...

I respectfully disagree. I neither came to the program for an answer to internet music piracy nor did I expect an all encompassing answer to the plight of artists, record companies, and musicians today.

 

I still feel this was anything but a complex airing of the issues. What I did hope to find was an in depth discussion of the issues. This piece touched on some of the issues, but just when it seemed they were on to something.. they were. On to another point, that is.

 

BTW - I didn't get the sense from the program that Ms. Hudson was pressured by anyone but her own desire to get airplay when she said the album needed a commercial, radio friendly song to complete it. That's her choice. It's not a mystery. Grocery stores often put the same items on sale to get people in the door in hopes they'll purchase other things once they're exposed. (Hence milk is almost universally placed at the back of the store to force you into walking past many other products and ads.) If she wants to get people in the door to her record, then a commercial, radio friendly song is just what the doctor ordered.

[pseudonym]

Thanks Rob, I wasn't trying to be harsh or anything, just sarcastic. I really got a "vibe" there. I lived on Sunset across from the comedy club and went back a few years ago to have a look around. Well, everything looked like La Jolla, swanky up-it-y, but still just as polluted, congested, but Sunset still leads to the beach, just like it always had.

 

That was one of my childhood dreams to drive all the way down Sunset to the beach! And I did it when I was 18 years old, but I didn't stay for long, but it was interesting while I was there to say the least! Hey, I wonder if I can still get that apartment for $250 a month?

[Lee Flier]

I hear ya pseudo... I'm from L.A. myself and uh, I left. Couldn't stand the place. I enjoy going back to visit now cuz it's fun for about a week and then I know I can leave.

 

And yeah, the Frontline piece did give me a lot of bad flashbacks. And coyote, I do think it was a fluff piece in the worst way. Totally agree with what Neil said. Considering it was supposed to be Frontline, I'm still stunned by how horribly it was done.

[Phil B]

I don't mean to offend anyone when I say this, but one thing the show did make me think about was that being an "artist in the music business" seems like the complete antithesis of everything I love about music. I love writing, jamming, playing out in clubs where the band's all packed together having a good time, improvising, etc. Looking at two bozos sitting in an office listening to a CD "critically" to see if it could be a hit looked uncomfortable and painful. Watching Goldie's niece or whatever try to calculate a career and watching the representative of her record company (the A&R woman) spend her time looking at photos and talking about her hair, using a single to get on the radio, etc. made me a little sick. Looking at the GNR/STP band through the eyes of marketers was equally disgusting.

 

I know nobody here will believe me when I say this, and maybe I'm just lying to myself, but I love music so much that I'd much rather be a "working musician" than "music star" any day. That didn't look like music to me, it looked like calculated sales of vanity.

[Lee Flier]

I hear you Phil. That's what gave me the bad flashbacks. I don't think you're lying to yourself, you're just smart - you know what REALLY makes you happy as opposed to what everyone says will make you happy.

[aeon]

sorry to give a heads-up to what seems to be a POS...

 

in any event, it comes on in ~an hour here, and I will watch.

 

mea culpa,

aeon

[ernest828]

Again I didn`t see the entire piece but I do agree with Coyote. I thought for the most part everything we already knew but it did present the Velvet Revolver CD and the indie girl (can`t remember her name damn) in an interesting light in that without spelling it out for the viewer there are givens in the business. Yeah we already knew this but I don`t think most outsiders knew (or even care which is more sad than anything).

 

It did present the irony in the artists career in that in order for an artist be "successful" they had to first sell out their own artistry. Can`t we all relate to that?

 

Ernest

[whitefang]

I, too, was dissapointed. Some stark comments were made, but it did deteriorate into a Hudson promo. Nice tune, though...

 

Lee, they DID talk to Dave Marsh, the Detroit boy who used to write so well for Creem in the old days, but yeah, not enough to clear the air. What I DID find poignant was the comments about how once rap got big, it lost it's relevance. Something that most of today's rappers are still in denial about...

 

Whitefang