EscapeRocks Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Have any of you run into situation where people just don't pay attention, or ask for assistance within our little world? Let's call it an RTFM problem. In addition to KC, I hand a couple other places with model specific groups. This past week, since the arrival of MODX OS Ver 2, I can't tell you how nay people are freaking out because they lost everything when they updated. The common refrain is "they should tell you that an update will reset your board and you need to backup". My favorite: "I downloaded the update how do I install it?" arggghhhhhhhh I pointed out that when they open the downloaded folder containing the update, the instructions are there as well, in pretty much any language you want. The part about losing your data and making a backup first, takes up the first part of the Instructions...before it even begins to tell you how to do the backup. The people complaining, who didn't read the "how to" are now bashing Yamaha. I just don't get it. Maybe I just have little patience for willful ignorance. [/rant] Quote David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom 08 | Roland Jupiter 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Its the Facebook disease. For these souls, its about self induced drama plus short attention span, laziness in reading 10 basic steps to follow. I shouldn't generalize but I notice it, too Quote Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Yes, I have also seen it. And it's getting more & more prevalent. A while ago I updated my SP6, I was actually surprised that my stuff was lost in the process. It never did that on my SP4-7. But I did make a backup and nothing was permanently lost. Some of these people didn't experience older boards that didn't update so easily I guess. I once bricked a Roland Juno once because the update was via a midi file that had to be sent over the midi input, no usb. Half way through the midi player program I was using died creating a paperweight out of my Juno. I was kicking myself for doing the update, because at the time I thought the process was archaic and should have just passed. Sweetwater saved my rear and replaced the board. After that I became a customer for life. Quote Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 It's not just keyboard players. On other forums, I run across people who lament that they've signed up for usurious credit unknowingly, or a real estate transaction that went the wrong way. If you don't take the time to read the instructions (contract, agreement, etc.) that's on you. Wailing about it on a public forum isn't a good look. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 its about self induced drama plus short attention span, laziness in reading 10 basic steps to follow. This... everywhere. Quote When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 its about self induced drama plus short attention span, laziness in reading 10 basic steps to follow. This... everywhere. There is another factor or contributor, IMO. economic facets in daily life have gotten more stressful. when I compare today vs 1999 or even 2009, the pressure , the challenges for those unprepared , are much greater. I think its best to totally have ones game plan powered up, to keep up with todays pace. Quote Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjd Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Hi David -- This hits another one of my favorite peaves ... Patch programming and other set-up is amazingly time-consuming. Yet, so many people don't ever bother to back up their work. Then we see messages like "How do I get my data back?", after disaster strikes. Some of these folks may be the same people who complain how club owners, brides, etc. don't value their time. They don't value their own time enough to stay backed up! Another example: Users who don't keep a back-up copy of a vendor's expansion pack, then want to transfer it back from the keyboard. Usually this is a one way trip to the keyboard in order to hold down piracy. I'm looking at some PSR/Genos owners, here. All the best -- pj http://sandsoftwaresound.net/update-about-the-updates/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PianoMan51 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Me, as a kid: 'Hey Dad, how does this thing work?' Dad: 'Did you read the instructions?' And then gives me a sly smile. I learned that lesson well. I never buy music gear without downloading and reading the manual first, especially the specs and block diagram. But I have friends I dearly love who when I ask them if they RTFM give a look that says 'Only dweebs read instructions! I thought you were cool. What a stupid question. You dweeb. You were kidding, right?' This is after buying a $70,000 new car, or continuing to blow out eardrums each time they turn on their new wireless mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 There's also another way to look at it. Remember the old saying, "Being the expert just means you're two pages ahead in the manual"? Those of us who read a little of the documentation are now the fountains of wisdom. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnH Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I remember that 30 plus year old keyboard article on David Paich and Steve Porcaro and thinking they were just total geniuses knowing how to run all that gear. But they explained it as " but we read all the manuals". There it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EscapeRocks Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 Thanks for all the comments... I think what set me off, so to speak, is all the people who were claiming Yamaha should have warned them about data loss, when the info is given in several different places the user must pass thru to get the update, open the update, and install the update. Quote David Gig Rig:Roland Fantom 08 | Roland Jupiter 80 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I never buy music gear without downloading and reading the manual first Unfortunately, after some people un-box their new piece of gear they throw away the box with the manual still inside. Quote When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I'd wager that people with good backup habits have had at least one major, catastrophic, un-backed up memory loss. (I have!) After that, the thought of doing any kind of update without backing up, regardless of a manufacturers warning, just seems insane and naive. So, perhaps a few of these Yamaha bashers will soon be joining that club. Quote Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Sage Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Measure twice, curse once....my motto when updating software....and cutting most things. Quote Voyager, A Tribute to the Music of Journey - http:// www.facebook.com/voyageraz Keys: Korg KronosX 88, M Audio Code 61, Novation Launchkey, Mainstage, Keyscape, Omnisphere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 But the RTFM issue surrounds us. It's become the water we swim in. What percentage of new car buyers learn how to use even 60% of the on board electronics? How many iPhone users explore the new features of an iOS update? Most of us still have the "blinking 12:00 VCR" going on somewhere in our lives. And consider less than 80% of the US reads at a high school diploma level. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felis Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I suspect that it has generally always been like that, but it has never been so public. Most people don't want to do the work to find the answer - they just want the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dongna Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I think cell phone apps might be contributing to the malaise... most apps update pretty regularly and painlessly without having to worry about losing your "stuff" in the process. People who are used to this probably jump to the conclusion that a keyboard update will work in much the same way and fail to read the instructions that contain the warnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 ^ Yeah I think that's basically it. Younger people especially are used to Windows and iOS updates that happen fairly regularly, leave your data alone, and you don't need to read instructions because it's mostly automatic. Those of us who are older have learned (sometimes the hard way) that it doesn't work that way with keyboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 this is why I only hang out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Measure twice, curse once.... I cut the board twice and it's still too short. Quote When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I belong to several forums. What irritates me is when someone asks for help; you research and provide the data and never hear from them again. Or you ask a qualifying questions and never get a response. What's the point of asking the question the first time other than waste someone else's time? Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonnor Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 All of the gear I bought new back before the interwebs, I'd open the box carefully and extract the owners manual. I'd take a couple days studying that sucker like 3-4 times page by page. Only then would I break the plastic around the actual item. Now I do like #51 said, DL the manual and read it a couple times through before even buying the thing. ~ gonner Quote Gear: Hardware: Nord Stage4, Korg Kronos 2, Novation Summit Software: Cantabile 3, Halion Sonic 3 and assorted VST plug-ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Yes, I see a lot of "drive by" posts. They post something and never ever respond or post anything again. I saw one post that was continuously being recycled, someone would post an answer every month or so for years. Yet the original poster never responded. And looking up the username revealed a post count of one. Quote Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Song80s Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I suspect that it has generally always been like that, but it has never been so public. Most people don't want to do the work to find the answer - they just want the answer. my wife and I point to the education system [ she's a teacher] The school systems did +10 years to ' teach to the test'. As in, don't think, just check the correct box [ 1 of 4 choices]. That encouraged simple memorization vs understanding the concept. And we have google for +20 yrs, at schools, where an answer can be found in 20 seconds. I call these contributing factors. Lots of automatic coddling. Quote Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ? My Soundcloud with many originals: [70's Songwriter] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark_OA Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 This also had a lot to do with the short attention span of people these days. This is in part due to all things trying to draw our attention away from what we're doing and a lot of that is thanks to the internet and smartphones. Not reading up on what to do before using or doing something and especially not thinking first is the convenience of this. Quote Trumpet player by trade, but fell in love with keys too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 What irritates me is when someone asks for help; you research and provide the data and never hear from them again. I have had this happen to me here on this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 It goes both ways, including in here. OP asks a question, then people go about their business answering the question they WANTED the OP to ask and carrying on discussions on those subjects instead. Seems like there are a few different types of evangelists that will always answer any question with their product of choice, no matter what. 1) the software guy: no matter what, the best answer is always a pic, tablet, phone, etc running some sort of software. 2) the red keyboard guy: whatever you need, Nord is the answer. Don't have the budget? Maybe you can find one used. 3) the piano guy: yeah, it might cover the synths for your Kraftwerk Tribute, but the pianos are horrible - I would go with [insert favorite DP] 4) the Organ guy: (same as above but insert clonewheel) In the above example, somebody could be asking for a lightweight portable keyboard with good synth sounds and some passable bread and butter stuff. Folks will end up debating pianoteq vs various DP's and competing actions along with what has the best clonewheel engine while a separate debate amongst those ignoring the bread and butter part will start debating analog and VA stuff, while some will recommend a momosynth and break into Behringer side debates. In those cases, the OP doesn't come back because nobody is actually addressing what he needed. Doesn't always happen, but definitely if the OP isn't specific, everybody fills the gaps with whatever they want rather than waiting for any kind of clarification. Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nursers Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Well put David. Although I hang my head in shame as I kept looking for the step by step instructions for the 2.0 MODX update on the Yamaha website, even after seeing all the PDFs in the file itself Quote The Keyboard Chronicles Podcast Check out your fellow forumites in an Apple Music playlist Check out your fellow forumites in a Spotify playlist My Music: Stainless Fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miden Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 It goes both ways, including in here. OP asks a question, then people go about their business answering the question they WANTED the OP to ask and carrying on discussions on those subjects instead. Seems like there are a few different types of evangelists that will always answer any question with their product of choice, no matter what. 1) the software guy: no matter what, the best answer is always a pic, tablet, phone, etc running some sort of software. 2) the red keyboard guy: whatever you need, Nord is the answer. Don't have the budget? Maybe you can find one used. 3) the piano guy: yeah, it might cover the synths for your Kraftwerk Tribute, but the pianos are horrible - I would go with [insert favorite DP] 4) the Organ guy: (same as above but insert clonewheel) In the above example, somebody could be asking for a lightweight portable keyboard with good synth sounds and some passable bread and butter stuff. Folks will end up debating pianoteq vs various DP's and competing actions along with what has the best clonewheel engine while a separate debate amongst those ignoring the bread and butter part will start debating analog and VA stuff, while some will recommend a momosynth and break into Behringer side debates. In those cases, the OP doesn't come back because nobody is actually addressing what he needed. Doesn't always happen, but definitely if the OP isn't specific, everybody fills the gaps with whatever they want rather than waiting for any kind of clarification. Perfect ! Quote There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence... Time is the final arbiter for all things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old No7 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 I think cell phone apps might be contributing to the malaise... My previous employer published a whole article on that a few years back -- essentially saying how "people don't read full paragraphs anymore". They read short bullets. A few words. Enough to get by, Not too many. In the article, it also said due to those Aps, TEXTING (LOL!) and modern technology, the average attention span of a 20 - 30 year old was half what it was 20 years ago and it was continuing to decline. The whole point of the article was to encourage people to be pithy and to-the-point with their emails. Yet I wonder how many people read the whole article............... Old No7 Quote Yamaha MODX6 * Hammond SK Pro 73 * Roland Fantom-08 * Crumar Mojo Pedals * Mackie Thump 12As * Tascam DP-24SD * JBL 305 MkIIs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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