Recording and tempo

[jmitch]

Recording and tempo

 

I have done a few demo recordings for my band out of my basement. I am still quite new to it. Every time I want to record something of music I always encounter a problem. I question every time the tempo and rhythmic feel of the music. If it is pop, you might not say it's that hard, just set the click and go. That certainly makes it easy to manage in music recording software. Because the computer knows where each beat is in the music, it's easy to record and make changes. However...

 

... I am in belief that subtle tempo changes within a piece greatly increase the natural feel and flow of the piece, provided good sensible, musical tempo changes are made. This requires a good drummer. I have read a lot by Craig Anderton who gave me some insight into this, and brought my attention to it. So, the dilemma is that I am reluctant to just feed the drummer a click track and just bang out the piece, because it can suck the life and feel out of a piece that needs some tempo swings. I don't want to take the life out of a drummer. I am a drummer, and I personally feel the urge to fluctuate the tempo a lot, especially in live performances. The audience may not be aware of it, but it is affecting the emotional impact the music has on the listeners.

 

I have thought about ways to record the drummers subtle tempo changes, such as recording everyone playing live together, and recording everyone on separate tracks. However, this takes away from the lock tight grasp the software has on your music. The software no longer lines up with your beats, in turn, making it harder for you to work with your music. And the other issue, is how to capture that perfect drum cut. How many times should I record the drummer until I feel they have produced a solid, emotional track. The changes are so subtle it would be hard to distinguish between takes, especially, without hearing the rest of the music.

 

Has anyone else felt the same way and ran into this problem with recording? Or do you all just pump out the click track and make your recordings rigid, perfect and lifeless.

[linwood]

I'm not sure what software you're useing, but look in the manual under tempo map.

[Barandine Vondenger]

I got a messed up click track thingie that oscilates and varys in tempo and I WOULD rather do a click track in the SAME tempo and then do a drum track or four.

I make drum tracks from manipulated parts and loops and such from CAKEWALK.

I once't used a click track FIRST but now I just make the drums to fit the song part by part just like a REAL DRUMMER would craft an ARRANGEMENT and usually by the time the drums are arranged everything else just falls into place and the song is ready to record.

Get it in the CAN.. .

[jmitch]

I've tried that. It's impossible to map out your own tempo changes. You can't just right them in. They have to be played out by a drummer. My question is, how do the pro recording studios do it? I know for a fact they don't all constrain the music to a click. I have tested myself, and it's impossible to get a click track to line up with a lot of mainstream music for any substantial amount of time. Sometimes as soon as the song moves into a new verse or from an intro to a verse, the drummer changes tempo immediately with a dragged out fill or something. Those types of things can't be done with click tracks.

[jmitch]

Originally posted by arellspencer:

I got a messed up click track thingie that oscilates and varys in tempo and I WOULD rather do a click track in the SAME tempo and then do a drum track or four.

I make drum tracks from manipulated parts and loops and such from CAKEWALK.

I once't used a click track FIRST but now I just make the drums to fit the song part by part just like a REAL DRUMMER would craft an ARRANGEMENT and usually by the time the drums are arranged everything else just falls into place and the song is ready to record.

Get it in the CAN.. .

Again, there's no way you can get the feel of a real drummers tempo changes doing any kind of programming. It's just not possible.

[I I mjrn]

Well, you could just record using your (or whomever's) playing as the basis for the track but there are digital devices that allow the tempo to be varied while setting guide tracks.

[jmitch]

Originally posted by Michael Jackson's real nose:

Well, you could just record using your (or whomever's) playing as the basis for the track but there are digital devices that allow the tempo to be varied while setting guide tracks.

I guess that's really the most obvious and only way of going about capturing those tempo changes. I must I hate playing with a click track. I find myself wanting to slow down in some areas and speed up in others. By the end of the piece I end saying "fuck the click track".

[Rog]

I use Nuendo's Timewarp tool to add bar markers in time with the kik drum. Unless there are significant tempo changes from bar to bar, it works very well - I can sync up drum loops to live drums and they lock fine.

[I I mjrn]

Don't give up so fast...explore the ways of controlling the tempo while playing* with "tap entry" devices; I can't think of the names of the more modern ones but someone here will, probably.

Those devices will allow you to not only vary the tempo as you desire but then give you great leeway in altering tracks with digital/computer editing without re-recording.

 

[* They work live, too.]

[linwood]

Hey, remember back several years ago, someone had some sort of midi baton that you could conduct with and control the tempo. i never saw anyone use one, but cool idea if you need that sort of control. I was thinking tap tempo might be what jmitch might need. I've never used it while playing, but have used it many times to lock a seq to a recorded piece where there was no click.

[jmitch]

Thank you all for your informative responses. I think the solution to my problem is to simply record the drum track the way I think it should be, then work to try and adjust the software to that- Not the other way around. (adjusting the music to the software. Software doesn't know music, and certainly can't create could tempo changes. If I can just figure out a good way to adjust the softwares tempo to the recorded tempo, I should be fine. Rog, your suggestion with adjusting the bars to the drum beat seems like it would work. But, it also seems like it could be awfully painstaking; for a long number at least. I'll have to do some research.

[alcohol_]

I was working with a group of very good gospel musicians. They recorded a track and listened back and they felt it just speeded up too much. So we recorded to a click and they felt it needed to speed up somewhat near the end, but they didn't want to go off as they did initially.

 

So I put together a tempo map in pro tools, gradually increasing the tempo where and as much as they wanted, by counting the bars to the different section. It worked.

[jmitch]

Originally posted by Michael Jackson's real nose:

Don't give up so fast...explore the ways of controlling the tempo while playing* with "tap entry" devices; I can't think of the names of the more modern ones but someone here will, probably.

Those devices will allow you to not only vary the tempo as you desire but then give you great leeway in altering tracks with digital/computer editing without re-recording.

 

[* They work live, too.]

When did I say I was giving up? All I said was I hate when I am trying to record a solid drum track down and the click is restraining me from musical freedom by restraining my ability to vary the tempo and lag beats and push beats.

[Kendrix]

Originally posted by Linwood:

Hey, remember back several years ago, someone had some sort of midi baton that you could conduct with and control the tempo. i never saw anyone use one, but cool idea if you need that sort of control. I was thinking tap tempo might be what jmitch might need. I've never used it while playing, but have used it many times to lock a seq to a recorded piece where there was no click.

I think that might have been developed for Hamlish when he did the music for BABA Streisands last tour.

[jmitch]

Unfortunately, that wouldn't really work for me. It's kind of a drummer thing. You can't say exactly when to make tempo changes, they just come naturally. That's something you can't really conduct, tap out, or map out on a computer in any way. To me, it's essential to be playing the drums with the music, while having musical freedom to adjust tempo, lag and push beats etc. like you would normally have in a live performance. But again, like I said, to me it's not something you can write out. You have to be playing the drums in the moment, and feel it. That's the only way in my opinion.

 

So the only way to capture those subltle nuances is to record the drummer live.