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Really TRYING to "use my ears" (preamp thread)


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I had a GREAT vacation: Three days in a lake front house with my best bud, five guitars, and recording gear. We enjoyed pooling our mics and pre's. We had only headphones for monitoring.

 

Our fave combination for the weekend was a Blue Baby Bottle through Lorin's Aphex tube pre. Through cans it was an obvious winning combination, with texture and depth to guitar and vocals we recorded. The same Blue mic through an RNP/RNC combination was real good, but with less texture. But now, back at my studio listening to our mixes through monitors the differences are less amazing.

 

I am deciding whether to add another pre to my RSS (Really Small Studio). Now, that Aphex pre is over $2000 for two channels. I too, want a big, open sounding preamp, but man, that is a steep entry fee. Especially when the sound that was so cool over cans while tracking is less distinguishable in a mix over speakers.

 

I already have a solid state pre that was designed years ago by Geo. Massenberg. I think it compares with the RNP. Clean and accurate. I need a different color for tracking guitars or vocals in my songwriter studio.

 

I am considering trying the Summit 2BA-221. It's a single channel for a reasonable price and seems very flexible. I don't get to audition it, though. Guitar Center is the only game in town, and they don't sell Summit. Is this worth trying? Give me your learned, biased, and much appreciated opinions!

Rubber Lizard Studio
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I have two RNPs, a Peavey VMP-2 tube mic pre, and Mackie VLZ preamps. I don't use the Mackies very much because I prefer the other two, which give me a fair amount of color.

 

You may possibly consider something like a Neve-type or API mic preamp, which should offer some different colors to what you already have.

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Mic preamp differences can be a subtle thing, but they can be quite drastic in some cases too. And in general, I hold the belief that you can often get close to the same performance level for significantly less money, but as you approach the top of the line stuff, that last ten percent increase in sonic quality is going to cost you exponentially instead of linearly.

 

Mitch gave the little Summit a glowing review in EQ, and with the variable impedance and the ability to mix the tube and solid state outputs to taste, it's got a lot of sonic flexibility. That would certainly be a good unit to consider for your needs.

 

As Ken said, people frequently reach for "Neve" or "API" flavored preamps when they're looking for "color", and with good reason - both can be extremely cool preamps. For Neve sonics on a budget, IMO you just can't beat the Vintech Audio Dual 72 (two channel Neve 1272 clone). You can frequently find those for around $1,250 - $1,300 or so. http://www.vintech-audio.com Oh, and I think GC sells them still too, so you might be able to audition one, but chances are it's going to be a special order item for them, which means no returning it if you're unhappy. However, Vintech DOES have a money back guarantee, so you might be able to return it via them. Call Dallas at Vintech and ask him first to be certain if / how that works though - the number's on the website I linked to above.

 

Glad to hear you had a great vacation Mark! :thu:

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Oh, one more thing: if you want only a single channel, and can pay a touch more for it, you can get the new Vintech X73i (a Neve 1073 clone) with the EQ for about $1,350, but you'll also need a power supply (the Dual 72 has the supply built in), which can power multiple preamps, but adds another $200 or so to the price tag.
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I think Fletcher sells API preamps starting at $750 or so. Check out Mercenary Music - it should be on their web site.
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The cheapest API stuff is going to be the 212 pre ($625) and the 200H rack / power supply ($800) which is a total of around $1,425 for a single channel, with expansion of up to three additional modules possible.

 

OR...

 

An API 512c is going to cost you about $725, with the cheapest mounting / power supply being the lunchbox frame (API 500-6B, a non-rack mountable 6 unit "lunchbox" type case) which Mercenary sells for around $450. If you must have a rackmount, the 500-H two unit sells for around $775. So you'd be looking at around $1,175 - 1,500 for a single channel, with expansion of one to five more modules possible, depending on which case you opt for.

 

The 500 series frames will also hold the OSC Audio API clones and variants, which I have still not had the opportunity to try out, but would really like to. They tend to run a bit less per card - around $450 - $515 range. OSA also makes an 8 unit API compatible lunchbox called the TrkPak that sells for around $500, and an 11 unit rackmountable frame for around $600. As far as I know, Mercenary ( http://www.mercenary.com ) doesn't sell OSA products, but they do sell the API stuff. OSA is available from Atlas though. ( http://www.atlasproaudio.com ) So the cheapest way into a API "style" preamp that I'm aware of would be one of the OSA cards ($450) with the API 6 space frame ($450) for a total of $900, with each additional preamp channel adding $450 to that price.

 

Of course, you COULD just get yourself a single rackspace 4 channel API 3124 and be done with it... around $2,500 street. ;)

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Oops, I left another option off the list:

 

Brent Averill sells his API 312 clones for around $900 for a single channel, including single space rackmount and power supply, with the two channel single space rackmount / power supply combo going for around $1,450. http://www.brentaverill.com They also sell a 6 channel API pin compatible rack or lunchbox (your choice) frame with power supply and phantom power for around $500, and individual 312A cards selling at $550 each. That places a single channel Averill clone / frame / power supply right at the same price point as the API six channel lunchbox frame / single OSA card combo.

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Well darn. I wrote a long post here last night and fell asleep before I sent it. It was a sordid tale of a small studio guy who doesn't want to spend oodles of cash -- but of course he would like his tracks to sound neve-like...

 

And as this studio guy types he is listening to an album, see, and it's Joni Mitchell. And he notices how full and present the vocals are and he thinks that the signal path is probably just a mixing desk, using the very preamps mentioned by Ken and Phil, and maybe a compressor like an LA2A.

 

I have a little while to count my pennies and contemplate. Could still end up going a different direction. Thanks for chiming in and giving me even more to think about.

Rubber Lizard Studio
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I know budgets can be tight Mark... that Summit is a cool little preamp, and after you get that, you can save up for the TLA 50, which I still have not tried, but according to the Summit people I've spoken with, is very similar to their TLA 100, which is one of my favorite outboards of all time. "TLA" stands for "Tube Leveling Amp", and they work on a similar operating principle as the LA2A leveling amps.

 

One more thing: You CAN audition some of this stuff... folks like Fletcher at Mercenary or Nathan at Atlas will normally send you what you want to try out and let you return it if you're not happy with it. Just take good care of it while you have it. :) So narrow down your options and order two or three things and send back what you decide you don't want.

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There are a couple of pres I too was looking into. The Vintech stuff looks nice but the Breat River MP NV2 looks great. Has anyone used these units? How od they sound and how are they built?

 

Peace,

Ernest

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