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Recording acoustic guitar


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I'm about to record some acoustic guitars and have never done it before. Which do you think is the better way to record: mic it or plug it in to an amp and mic the cabinet (they are electric acoustic guitars).

 

If micing the guitar itself is the best way, what brands/models of mics would you recommend? Any suggestions on where to place the mic? I need to buy a good vocal mic anyway, so maybe I can buy a single mic to do both acoustic and vocal tracks with? I'd like to keep it under $500.

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The answer to your first question is easier: listen with your ears. Whichever sound is the one you want to capture, throw a mic in front of it! There is no right sound, just the one you want.

 

You will get as many answers for your second question as there are members here. What kind of recording device are you using (computer interface, standalone digital recorder, analog tape deck, etc.)? What kind of microphone preamplifer do you have/plan?

 

I have successfully used a Large Diaphragm condenser for both vocals and acoustic guitar (a Marshall MXL V-77 tube cardiod mic recently, AKG 451, Neumann U-87, etc., at other times). You may get the sound you want from a Shure SM-57 for all I know, or you may want to try one of the great-value Chinese condenser mics like the Marshall I mentioned above, or an Audio Technica, M-Audio, etc. mic.

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If you're recording mono, plug one ear and move around the guitar with your unplugged ear until it sounds the best.

 

I've only lately started recording acoustics in stereo and it sounds so good. Try a small diaphram condenser pointed toward the player and positioned where the body meets the neck. Then use a large diaphram condenser pointed towards the player positioned on the body of the guitar (if you were playing the guitar and looking down, it would be on your right). Sometimes aiming it at the soundhole works well.

 

I use an SM-81 and an AKG 414, but for your budget I'd check the AKG C-2000 and the Shure 3 bill mic (KSM 27?) or maybe that Marshall that Doug mentioned.

 

Good Luck!

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Hello, thank you for replies. I am using an Echo Layla24 interface and a Mackie 1604VLZ Pro mixer (so I am using the preamps inside the mixer for the mics). The style of music is acoustic rock (Examples: Days of the New, Tantric, Zack Wylde's "Book of Shadows" album, etc...)

 

There are 2 guitars being recorded so I was going to record them both mono and pan them left/right. I never really gave any thought to recording stereo. The only thing I record stereo is the drums and I do that by placing mics on each drum, and 4 overhead mics around the set (front left, back left, front right, and back right) and panning accordingly. I've read about some XY-pair technique that is supposed to give a stereo image but never understood how it works. Could someone send a picture of this?

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The Echo should do its job well.

 

The VLZ preamps are good at what they do, but for pure acoustic sound there are much better preamps out there - it's a matter of budget, to start, and even the philosophical question of what is more important in any given budget, the mic or the pre?

 

I will go out on a limb here and recomend that you record the acoustic with as good of a mic that you can, in as good of a room that you can. At the same time, track the output of the guitar's pickup - it is on this track that you can put an amp-sim plugin, crazy compression, stereo spread, etc., etc., etc., while still having the natural sounding acoustic guitar to sound, well, natural. You can always take this extra track and reamp it - play the track through an output of your Echo card into a guitar amp, and mic the amp, recording that to another track. Tweak that track for time and phase problems, and you will have that amped sound without the inherent problems of micing the amp at the same time as the acoustic recording.

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Taken 5 minutes ago (I love a short-term challenge like this)...

 

http://homepage.mac.com/echohaus/.Pictures/XY1.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/echohaus/.Pictures/XY2.jpg

 

yeah, my studio's a mess. Bite me. :D

I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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All this aside, I also need to say that I can't condone using the built-in pickup in a studio situation. Not only do (to my ears) they sound horrid this way, I feel that the electrification of acoustics was developed mainly to combat live mic'ing situations.

Just my humble opinion.

I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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Since you're asking for opinions...

 

I prefer micing my acoustic guitar instead of micing the amp. But of course, it depends on what sound you're going after. I find that micing is much more flexible for achieving different tones and sounds. Sometimes, I like close-micing; other times, I back the mics off 2-3 ft. There are many ways to record an acoustic guitar, and even with only two mics, you can really get a lot of different sounds to go with what the song needs.

 

Another thing you can consider doing is to mic and do direct at the same time. Sometimes, the direct signal can give additional body and thrust to the sound of the guitar, and will sound very nice blended with the signal coming from the mic(s). This might sound really nice for the kind of music you are doing.

 

For microphones, it depends on what I am going after. I usually prefer small diaphragm condensers, such as Audio Technica AT4051s. If I want the thing to be larger than life, sometimes I'll pull out the Audio Technica AT4060 tube condenser or even the Lawson L251, also a tube condenser. But I think for most applications, a couple of small diaphragm condensers will do just fine. Cheaper mics that you can consider include AT4041s, which you can find for US$200 used.

 

I hope this helps!!!

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Since i was faced with this dilemma recently myself (getting Acoustic guitar on tape), i figured i'd peek in.

 

I've been curious about mics for a while, since the 2 i have are total crap. Following up on some of the ones listed, i never realised how much money you could spend on mics.

 

It surprises me, but it also doesn't.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

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WWND?

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Originally posted by phaeton:

I've been curious about mics for a while, since the 2 i have are total crap. Following up on some of the ones listed, i never realised how much money you could spend on mics.

It just never ends. You just try and get the best bang for the buck. I lucked out with the Lawson L251 because I won it in a drawing at AES. I would ordinarily not own a mic like that on my own. I broke the piggy bank for the AT4060 I have, which sounds very nice and big and warm on an acoustic guitar, but is probably not the best mic if you are using the acoustic guitar track with a big huge rock band and it's supposed to be a supporting thing because it's a little harder to get it to "fit" in the mix.

 

For relatively cheap, AT4041s are nice mics (small diaphragm condensers). $200 used, I think. Cheaper than that, AT33Rs (which were then replaced by the AT33a) are surprisingly good. Also, Crown makes a nice little small diaphragm condenser, so I'm told.

 

What's nice about small diaphragm condensers is that they are almost like jack-of-all-trades. You can use them for amps, overheads, toms, percussion, marimbas, shakers, and lots of either things and they sound good. Once in a while, you can get away with vocals, too.

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Originally posted by offramp:

All this aside, I also need to say that I can't condone using the built-in pickup in a studio situation. Not only do (to my ears) they sound horrid this way, I feel that the electrification of acoustics was developed mainly to combat live mic'ing situations.

Just my humble opinion.

Yes, but it's actually, at least according to my experience, even a poor buit-in can be a great source for a track that you can mangle and thwack all you want.

 

There are some pickups (RMC comes to mind) that actually record quite well. Many, many, recordings out of Nashville, for example, track the piezo pickup and end up using this track in some way.

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Originally posted by Doug Osborne:

Yes, but it's actually, at least according to my experience, even a poor buit-in can be a great source for a track that you can mangle and thwack all you want.
Seems like more work with less satisfying/gratifying results, but again...just my humble opinion
I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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Just out of curiosity, how about a Shure SM57?

 

I hear about these alot, and iirc the studio that my HS band cut our demo in was full of these. As often as they're seen and talked about, it sounds like they'd be a logical first step if you have NO microphones and a budget.

 

We used them to mic the drums and guitars, but how well do they work for acoustic guitars and vocals? Are they an ok "all around mic"?

 

To give you an idea of how cheap one of my mics are, i bought it for the 1/8" to 1/4" phono adapter, because the whole mic was cheaper than buying the adapter singly.

 

I think i paid $14 (used) for my condensor mic, and i have no idea what brand or model it is off the top of my head.

Dr. Seuss: The Original White Rapper

.

WWND?

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I'd agree that good mics would give the best sound. But, what the heck, even if you DO use a couple mics, you have the tracks and it's easy enough to run a direct signal, too. Maybe you got a really sweet sound, but it seems to lack something. (yeah, I know...a really sweet sound shouldn't lack anything, but what happens when you mix everything together probably determines that). You could always use that direct track to experiment. Maybe you just need a touch more reverb, but the mic'ed tracks muddy up. Run the direct track through, make it mostly wet, and see what happens if you just try to slide it under.

There's a lot of things you could do with it. Maybe you just need a hair more attack. Must be someway to tame the quack. EQ the heck out of it, and sneak that in, maybe. But, then, it also makes for more mixing decisions, and more work.

Might as well try anything until you find what works in your context. Threre's always exceptions to rules, and most stuff that truly sounds different is probably because they broke the rules.

 

Tele

:freak:

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We use a pair of X Dream wireless headphones ( to easily move around the mics} and usually select a ROde and/or AT mic..{also depends if the guitar has a internal pickup} but a NTK tube at the neck and a AT 4033 or NT3 or 4041 at the bottom end...just move the mics slightly wilst the player strums...a better mic pre will help tremendously ...the Mackie will suffice, though. late 20\'s Kalamazoo guitar
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If using just one microphone, I prefer to start by aiming the mic almost perpendicular to the guitar at where the neck meets the body, aiming slightly down. From there, I go ahead and adjust slightly, moving the mic closer/farther, and working on the tilt slightly, and making sure that the guitarist is comfortable.

 

It's not rocket science. I can usually get very close to what I want if the person can play guitar well, has a nice guitar, I have a nice mic, and I just stick the mic in this general position.

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57's will work on just about anything, but if you want a highly detailed sound you'll just have to use a more sensitive mic. (Read: condenser)

 

Take a listen to my file, Sunshowers/Sparkle Shoes.

 

All tracks were recorded through a Mackie 1402VLZ (not PRO) into a POS, 1/8" jack computer interface into N-track studio.

 

In the first section, Sunshowers, the acoustic guitar is recorded mono with an EV RE20. I like the RE20 because its' design virtually eliminates proximity effect. (Most directional, dynamic mics will have a pronounced bass response as you approach and inch or two from the head. The RE20 does not.) This is great because no matter how close or far you are from the mic, the timbre stays relatively constant. For a dynamic it's pretty detailed, but it ain't a condenser.

 

The latter section, Sparkle Shoes, was recorded with a Shure KSM32 on the body near the neck joint, hard panned one direction and the L.R. Baggs ribbon pickup hard panned the other direction. I compressed the tracks and EQ'd a bit. I like the result because though these tracks are a single take, for some reason the input/processing combination accents different frequency ranges on each track. It sounds almost as though there are two takes of near identical parts, but I can assure you it was a single pass of one guitar.

 

These are still a world away from the timbre I'd like to accomplish. But I don't have the guitar, the "hands", the engineering experience, or the recording gear available to James Taylor. :freak::D

 

But I've received numerous complements on the timbres, so you decide for yourself. If you like 'em, now you have a better idea how they were recorded, and on a fairly crap to mediocre setup with decent mics and pickup.

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

Soundclick

fntstcsnd

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Originally posted by Doug Osborne:

Originally posted by offramp:

All this aside, I also need to say that I can't condone using the built-in pickup in a studio situation. Not only do (to my ears) they sound horrid this way, I feel that the electrification of acoustics was developed mainly to combat live mic'ing situations.

Just my humble opinion.

Yes, but it's actually, at least according to my experience, even a poor buit-in can be a great source for a track that you can mangle and thwack all you want.

 

There are some pickups (RMC comes to mind) that actually record quite well. Many, many, recordings out of Nashville, for example, track the piezo pickup and end up using this track in some way.

Agreed. Compress the shit out of it, add chorus and bring it up under the mic track so that you can only hear is when you mute it, if you see what I mean. Just enough to notice it when it's gone. That can help beef up a guitar sound.

 

Recording depends on the guitar and also how it's played. I've got a nice Daion acoustic which I can mic up with a LD condenser on the body and a SD on the neck. That works great for fingerpicking but sounds boomy as hell when I strum the guitar. Putting mics over my shoulders sounds better for strumming,

 

The room is a big factor too. Sometimes guitars sound better when the mic is further away but if the room is shit then the further away you go, the worse it sounds.

 

A SD MBHO mic works well and they aren't too expensive, I like these mics. Studioprojects C1s are OK for LD condensers. Beyer MC740's also work well and I've got a decent result with a pair of XY C535EBs.

"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." - Banky Edwards.
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Thank you all very much for the replies. Very good information. I'm understanding more and more that the whole micing/recording/mixing process is just one BIG experiment! I think I am going to try to mic the acoustic... that is once I figure out what mic to buy! I've got to narrow that down somehow. Maybe renting a cuple from a music store and trying them would be best. I'd be wasting some money paying for rental, but it would be worth getting some good mics. Right now, the best mics I have are dynamic mics made by Peavey. They are the PVM-22 which I believe are meant for live vocals. Our vocals have always sounded weird. I haven't figured out what it is yet. It's like they kinda sound hollow, a little muddy, and little to up-front in your face. You can listen to some of our recordings at

Project Zero - Music / Lyrics Page

 

We have songs from the CD as well as some live recordings. In some ways, I think our live recordings sound better than our studio stuff, but we recorded about a year and a half ago. My ears have improved since then, but I still have a long way to go.

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EMM386, I'll contribute what I can. I usually aggree wih Phil, though. I have a Studio Projects C1. I think it sounds pretty good, even through not-stellar preamps. I would point it at the 12th fret or where neck/body meet. If you can get a direct signal at the same time then do it. You don't have to USE it if it's unneeded. If the sound is still funky, use the over-the-shoulder suggestion. Position the mic over the player's right shoulder, pointed down at the neck/body joint.

 

To get more body, move the mic toward the sound hole. Micing the sound hole will produce a huge, tubby, sound not unlike a giant ukelele inside a culvert. Don't get too close to it. To thin the sound, move down the neck. This will pick up more string squeak. If you can't get a passable sound doing these things, something is maybe wrong. Go to bed and try again tomorrow.

Rubber Lizard Studio
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I'm a big fan of 414's on acoustic guitars, along with tracking the pickup through a good di. Pan the 414's hard L/R, and if the pickup sounds good (Fischman ones generally sound excellent) run it up the middle to taste.

 

I place the 414 one at the neck at about the 12th fret, jsut below the neck and pointing in about 30 degrees and slightly up, and the other jsut below the bridge, again in about 30 degrees. Neither mic is pointed at the soundhole, and both mics have the hp filter in the 75hz position. Both micd are in omni mode.

 

Typically I'll run them trough a valve pre like the HHB Radius 10 and a Distressor, compressing lightly, 3-4db of reduction max. I do a similiar chain with the di.

 

eq to taste, typically with a HP filter around 120hz, and a couple db boost around 2k, and they'll cut through any mix.

Hope this is helpful.

 

NP Recording Studios

Analog approach to digital recording.

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