ibescotty Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 New York International Music Festival So my drummer is from Queens and he looks into the above festival because he wants to play in NY. They tell him we have to pay 950$ to be considered to play in the festival. Of course if we don't get picked they'll give us our money back. This just doesn't seem right to me. /sarcastic voice on/ We as musicians have so much money. /sarcastic voice off/ Why in the heck would we want to pay to play? Not to mention travel that far to pay to play. I just don't get it. NY Music Festival Double Posting since March 2002 Random Post Generator #26797 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bvdd Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by ibescotty: New York International Music Festival So my drummer is from Queens and he looks into the above festival because he wants to play in NY. They tell him we have to pay 950$ to be considered to play in the festival. Of course if we don't get picked they'll give us our money back. This just doesn't seem right to me. /sarcastic voice on/ We as musicians have so much money. /sarcastic voice off/ Why in the heck would we want to pay to play? Not to mention travel that far to pay to play. I just don't get it. NY Music Festival This has been a bone of contention for a while now. I think I first heard of it concerning the L.A.-N.Y. club scene back in the late '80's. Everyone wanted the same gigs for prestige and showcasing. The club owners got 'smart' (and greedy of course), and decided to charge bands for nightly spots. Bands caved. I guess the only way to end this is for bands to refuse. But it may be too late for that. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60hurts Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 There are festivals like this all around the country and I assume they all charge the bands similarly. People in the "biz" have gotten smart. They know there are thousands of musicians who are willing to pay to have their music reviewed, pay to be on a compilation, pay to play, etc. In the bad old days, these same "biz" types would put up their own money to develop a band. Of course, you'd get screwed in the end anyway. So what's changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FnB Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 The only reason I can think of that you should ever pay a venue owner to play at their gig is if you can recoup the cost and make a profit from ticket/merchandise sales or receive significant press coverage to justify it... The more bands playing, the less I'd think that anyone would remember us and the less promotion / reviews we'd get. But then maybe, it might be cool to say "We played support to ______ at the New York International Music Festival"? Have you a CD/CDs to plug / T-shirts to sell or a website selling your stuff? If so then the price might be enough to justify the publicity which would get people to check you out and *possibly* part with some cash. Otherwise I'd probably steer clear unless I was after some expensive life experience Chris Griffin: Yo, did y'all check me when that hottie was all up in my Kool-Aid? Yeah, I was looking to break off a little somethin' somethin' but my crew gave me the 411 on that skank and she's all about the bling-bling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barandine Vondenger Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I don't care iffen every bigwig from here to denmark was a'gonna be there I would'nt pay a dime to play out. For free MAYBE yeaas? pay? NO! it's like going to a restaraunt and having to wash everyons dishes after you PAY for your meal.. or going around bussing tables for free after you eat.. would you pay your boss to go to work? if you would, I wish you to werk for me LOL. ha,ha. ahahahaha find a PAYING gig. get really goode and finde a paying gig.. there's lots of them... hone your craft to razor sharpness and folkes will call YOU.. I promise.. the end.. Frank Ranklin and the Ranktones WARP SPEED ONLY STREAM FRANKIE RANKLIN (Stanky Franks) <<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groovepusher Sly Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 We as musicians have to let go of old notions of how the music business works. It is not the same as it was in the forties, before TV, when radio was fairly new, and club owners HAD to have live entertainment. Clubs, stadiums, festivals, and just about anybody with a stage, are renting the space. Clubs make money from selling alcohol, they have, in many cases taken themselves out of the promotion business, and as a result the band, (local bands without booking agents) becomes the promoter. Some club owners here in Chicago, take the position that bands run their regular dance (drinking) crowd away, and the band should make up the difference. There are all kinds of deals, pay for the room get the door, $100 + the door, door split, all past X amount on the door, door doesn't count before a certain time, (this allows the regulars to get in free), etc, etc, etc. You pretty much have to be prepared to promote yourself across the board, and look at ALL gigs as business ventures. That means if you have to put out money to do a gig, you have to do EVERYTHING you can to maximize profits. I was trying to be brief, we could undoubtedly discuss this for days. Sly Whasineva ehaiz, ehissgot ta be Funky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barandine Vondenger Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Playing for free means you can sell ju uh stuff like hats and shirts and ceedees and flyers. I would NEVER pay a dime no matter how bad I want to play out. I can go to half a dozen dives right now and drag my axe up to a stool and in ten minutes or so with a little luck, have a booked gig. I can then place merchandise on the bar and hang a shirt, several posters and ballCap and most times wrangle my ceedee on the jukebox.. ahahaha! AND NEVER pay a dime..if I sell fivee ceedees thats a goode nights work..I can sell the stankin flyers.. . if you wanna get paid then GET PAID anyway you can. keep your honds from 'de shoks mouth boyo! Frank Ranklin and the Ranktones WARP SPEED ONLY STREAM FRANKIE RANKLIN (Stanky Franks) <<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibescotty Posted May 21, 2004 Author Share Posted May 21, 2004 We get paid to play all the time for our cover gigs. It's the original gigs that don't pay crap. Not only that but they are now charging for an original gig? Something's not right in pleasant ville. I've seen a number of shows like this around the country, some even sponsered by some big name companies. There was one here in St. Louis a short while back that charged 450$ to play. We didn't bother. Double Posting since March 2002 Random Post Generator #26797 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FULLREFUSAL Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I WOULD NEVER PAY TO PLAY A CLUB GIG.....It's asinine and there are enough paying gigs out there for anyone who is worth paying...That said it will cost some money to get yourself in on the NACA college circuit but the benefits will far outweigh the cost if you can get a showcase and or get gigs out of it. I look at that as a business expense. The festivals circuit is kinda like that as well, but if you get in and hit it, you will be selling so many CD's and other merchandise that it will far eclipse your paying club income... Now, I have been making 25-50K a year( recently around 35-40K)for over a dozen years, in my litte Inde music career. Not great $$ but I do what i love and wouldn't have it any other way. My goal is to turn this into a 6 figure a year producing business, combining touring, merchandising, and writing for, producing, and recording other artists. This is going to require some financial investment to do that, gear, travel, NACA membership, merchandise, promotions, etc, but I feel that it will be a worthwhile investment. To take it to the next level it's what is required. If paying for a gig, works out in the scheme of things as a worthwhile investment then it's a viable option. But you have to have a plan and you have to know when and where to invest to bring it to fruition. I can not see how paying all that cash to be in the international Music Festival has any merrit. I have played 2NMC in Nashville and recently the Budding Alaska Music Conference, and plan on trying to get into all the major Festivals from here on out, and I do not recall SXSW, NXNW, NEMO, Southern Music Conference, Atlantic, etc or any of them asking for an exobitant amount of money to apply... www.seanmormelo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skipclone 1 Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 knife it choke it don`t slow down till you`ve killed this noxious noun I`ll pay them to play if they pay me to drink Same old surprises, brand new cliches- Skipsounds on Soundclick: www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil B Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Ever since around 1990 I've had opportunities to pay to play at "showcases" at various clubs in NYC. I never have and never will. To me, it's the same things as my paying a client to let me do work for them. It's ridiculous. An interesting related question is whether you would pay to be on the Today show. I believe they charge a lot of money to let bands on as featured artists. The record company pays, but I'm sure it's recouped from royalties, so essentially the artists pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBBPaul Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Originally posted by ibescotty: New York International Music Festival So my drummer is from Queens and he looks into the above festival because he wants to play in NY. They tell him we have to pay 950$ to be considered to play in the festival. Of course if we don't get picked they'll give us our money back. This just doesn't seem right to me. /sarcastic voice on/ We as musicians have so much money. /sarcastic voice off/ Why in the heck would we want to pay to play? Not to mention travel that far to pay to play. I just don't get it. NY Music Festival I looked at this website and my first impression was that this is a total hose job. This is the loosest use of the term "Festival" I've seen. "Give us money and free entertainment and you might be seen by somebody famous." I'd stay far away from that program. Our new and improved website Today's sample tune: Lonesome One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barandine Vondenger Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 [quoteOriginally posted by FullRefusal.com: []I WOULD NEVER PAY TO PLAY A CLUB GIG..... Now, I have been making 25-50K a year( recently around 35-40K)for over a dozen years, in my litte Inde music career. Not great $$ but I do what i love and wouldn't have it any other way. My goal is to turn this into a 6 figure a year producing business, combining touring, merchandising, and writing for, producing, and recording other artists. To take it to the next level it's what is required. If paying for a gig, works out in the scheme of things as a worthwhile investment then it's a viable option. But you have to have a plan and you have to know when and where to invest to bring it to fruition. I can not see how paying all that cash to be in the international Music Festival has any merrit. I have played 2NMC in Nashville and recently the Budding Alaska Music Conference, and plan on trying to get into all the major Festivals from here on out, and I do not recall SXSW, NXNW, NEMO, Southern Music Conference, Atlantic, etc or any of them asking for an exobitant amount of money to apply...[/QB] i thought TAKING IT TO THE "NEXT LEVEL" was doing treehunner'd and ninety dates a year??? ahahahaha! not giving your hard earned moolah to a shark with a condo payment..ahahaha! YOu knoe at THAT POINT you been in the GAME a while)maybe iffen the manager said: "I just laid down my moolah for this gig*SHOWCASE) we gonna do and basically you cats are gonna play for free and If something hoppens when you cats blow them away then I get back mine plus a tad. " HEY,HEy I would say that works man and do the show..cause of the merchandising thang. thats recoup right there. And I mean CARNY HAWK em'... GET YER CEEDEES! GET EM NOW only FEW LEFT. LOL!I would'nt do it with equiptment money but MAYBE if it was for a CIRCUT type of thing; where there was a CHANCE and opportunity to recoup losses incurred and a real chance at good solid dates,then I see A win,win sign.. as long as nobodie in the bond show up dronk everting should be dandy don'choo know mon'! ahahaha~!. like INVESTING in a recording of the group or pictures. There HAS to be a CERTAIN amount of risk . The TRICK is to minimize that risk.. Which is USUALLY the result of HARD KNOCK COLLEGE ahahaha! after a while you larn. EVEN if you SEE other folkes givin up their cash you STOP and think a'fore you give op a pence. thanks for letting me share.. ( Frank Ranklin and the Ranktones WARP SPEED ONLY STREAM FRANKIE RANKLIN (Stanky Franks) <<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ani Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Ibescotty, Are you happy as an employee to the Anheuser Busch foundation? While the upper cut relishes in their high profile celebrities, the ones' paving the road to their successes are treated like....... blue collar scum. They are not allowed to join in with the WHEELS in celebration of a good year of profits; although without them, the company would be nothing. I noticed on the web site you provided that Anheuser was one of the sponsors........ psssst!!! If more people would stand up against the pay to play robbery; there would not be a market for it. I have a buddy of mine that was telling me that he was willing to pay the price to gain exposure until I told him my opinion of clubs that required pay to play. I told him that whenever I learned a club was requiring pay to play, I automatically assumed that a band SUCKED BIG TIME and therefore no one would HIRE them. Those bands willing to pay to play would lower their reputation on the music circuit and hinder their potential for scoring higher paying gigs. His band was actually decent for the genre it was; METAL. Instead of paying to play for a club, he decided to rent the VFW hall himself and throw a costume party for Halloween with a cover charge. The sent out flyers and got the word out through posters; he actually did pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ani Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 In other words, if you are going to have to pay to play; you'd better be on the receiving end to reaps the profits that will be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jokerelli Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Can you say "organized crime"? Yeah, you'd get that money back. http://www.myspace.com/jokerelli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.