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Lennie Tristano teaching advice


Docbop

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Music does not exist in the realm of words... it is 'Supralingua' (sp?) - yes and cannot be described by words, it must be 'experienced' by the player. All of this is very close to my study with Larry Bluth, all that is being said here and discussed..

 

I've watched Dave's vids on YT a number of times... great stuff...I kind of study with what is left of Lennie's inner 1st ring circle in NYC and the area and though I enjoy Dave's show, I was told that Dave may not always the best source for Tristano knowledge...I take my lessons and that's about it and try not to give the 'religious musical disputes' to much credence, I'm too busy to get to caught up in all that.. But I am aware of them... all I know is I'm learning and have been for years and years now..Good to see Dave/Lennie oriented material posted here regardless... BTW, Lennie considered Warne Marsh (Tenor Sax) the greatest improvisor of his whole crew including him .. considered Warne a better improvisor than himself. Warne could played as fast as Bird with inflection and grace ...but even so, with Lenny's ideas and teaching Warne learned a lot from Lennie to say the least, so did Sal Mosca and Lee Konitz and Lenard Bernstein when he came down to hang w/Lennie ... the guy I study with, my friend Larry Bluth studied with Sal Mosca for 23 years off and on, mostly on, and hung out at Lenny's studio on occasion. Sal was arguably Lennie's most successful piano student in a way. Larry Bluth also did 3 years at Berkley in MA! Sal studied with Lennie I believe for 12 years. Sal was a swing era guy originally...they all played/taught classical also and love Classical as Lennie did but Be-bop was home base. Larry told me once he (and Sal I believe) considered classical music innately corrupt because it was written out and regurgitated every time - Jazz being actually - more of an art...The Tristano people have gone head to head with Classical people in NY through the years in terms of things like that...Improvisation lead to much great Classical music before 1760 and remind them of that, often not well taken buy the classical crowd in NYC either as were/are qustions of piano technique ala Bud Powell, can't talk to purly classical types about that, they just will not accept it. They all Love Bud, every one of them. The Tristano folks are/were 'hardcore' improvisors...fancy chords and theory, although appreciated and discussed take 2nd place to learning how to develop and 'improvised line'... and play it in time... no 'rushing' the beat like Oscar Peterson allowed! You 'stay in the center of the beat boy'... and you never ever formulate what your gonna play before you play it or pull riffs off your shelf....no! improvisation is an art in itself and the rules governed by a different 'internal' physics...think to much and you will lose it!

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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It's beyond words to drive! :2thu:

 

'Supralingua'

 

Ah yes... the new Toyota Supralingua! :laugh:

 

rd-1.jpg

 

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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Who is always the best source for Lennie stuff?

I would say Sal Mosca just because of the of Sal's age and the depth of his playing and the fact that he was closer to Lennie's age group. And probably because my teacher studied with Sal... What he meant by that. I'm not 100% sure! You know how the older guys are (80+ year olds).. but I'm not putting anyone down man. It's all great stuff as far as I'm concerned and any teacher who has really absorbed Lennie's ideas and could really explain them well is fine with me .... I still consider myself a intermediate student and I'm really rather new to Lennie (the past 20 years or so) compared to some of you and I do also play other musics...

 

I think one of the greatest things that Lennie gave the jazz world and the music world were his 'Formations'... chordal clusters built on jazz solo line intervals incorporated right into 4 part chord extended voicings for all the extended chords ..Maj7, Maj6, Tonic Minor, Dom7the etc etc...

 

 

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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no, Larry references him constantly to me... left a Huge impression on him! As did Lennie!

 

 

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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I am one of countless in the NY area who studied with Sal. He was pretty demanding, which I'm sure he learned from Lenny.

 

Brief example of the standards I'm talking about:

 

I remember once I came in after hearing Tommy Flanagan play somewhere. I was a big Flanagan fan. Sal agreed he was good, but remarked "he needs to practice more." I'm pretty sure Sal would have said that about virtually everyone.

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cedar, I have access to some personal recordings of Sal's through Larry .... I have never heard anyone that dialed in, my god. Larry said he would practice endlessly.. Sal had a lot of energy! And a firm believer that pure talent will get you far...but work will get you further, even with less natural talent and ability ...

 

Yeah, I get similar recounting of standards and 'straightening' out about players I would bring up or half baked ideas I may have or had... very similar.. always balanced though. The good, the bad and the ugly about things ... but if there was a lot of good, it's always noted and mentioned.. even if they felt there was some bad - sort of Robert Persig's - 'Metaphysics of Quality' sort of thing! Keeps you honest!

 

They are/were such a great group to study with who have real dedication to teaching and study in and around NYC...a lot of that from Lennie I have gathered! And things I can apply to any music ... Valuable with a capital 'V'...

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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