Jedi Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 What are your opinions on drummers who spend a lot of time on cymbals when playing? I think I read on one thread a long time ago posters who considered it a bad thing. Like it showed a lack of skill or taste or both. Is their any truth to this type of thinking? Opinions please "All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence." The Buddha's Last Words R.I.P. RobT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip OKeefe Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Depends on which cymbals and how they're playing them. If they're just bashing away with 1/4 note accents on the crash for half the song, I'd agree with you. If they do that occasionally to accent a section or whatever, it can be fine. But like everything else, it is about dynamics and taste. Some cymbals are (usuallY0 "timekeepers" (rides and hats) while others are usually for accents and emphasis. It's up to the drummer to play them in a musically appropriate manner. And some drummers are certainly better at that than others are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Knutson Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Depends on the band, and the song. Keith Moon was insane, but it did usually fit with the Who's music. https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 3, 2004 Author Share Posted May 3, 2004 Thanks for the replies guys. I really haven't formed a final opinion on this. But I'm starting to notice how less cymbals can mean more. Hence, my search for other opinions. Keep them coming. "All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence." The Buddha's Last Words R.I.P. RobT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 It's totally a matter of style and there's no right or wrong answer. I love Stan Lynch's style a great deal, and he's always worked consciously to emphasize the sound of the drums rather than the cymbals. OTOH the drummer in my band is also one of my favorite drummers like, ever, and he beats the hell out of the cymbals. It's a very exciting sound, just like when Stan beats the hell out of a big deep set of toms. If the drummer plays with dynamics, either cymbals OR drums can be used to great dynamic effect. Or, either or both can be used to bludgeon the listener to death with no creativity or dynamics. It REALLY just depends on the drummer. And the specific song too of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Knutson Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 IMO, Dave Grohl uses cymbals very effectively in relation to the composition of the given song. When he goes to the crash cymbal on quarter notes, in place of the hat or ride, it has the full intended effect: climactic aural onslaught. https://bunny.bandcamp.com/ https://theystolemycrayon.bandcamp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Again, it depends on the drummer. Jack DeJohnette spends a lot of time on his cymbals, and he's absolutely wonderful at it. But if it's just mindless bashing on the crash, then it's definitely annoying. David My Site Nord Electro 5D, Novation Launchkey 61, Logic Pro X, Mainstage 3, lots of plugins, fingers, pencil, paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendrix Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I call Tony Williams a cymbal player - not a drummer- just to make a point about his cymbal-focused style. It certaily works for him. However,it can be an interesting and nice change to add in some bells or other high frequency oriented perc in place of cymbals. I try to do this occasionally. I seem to recall that S. Dan/W. Becker does some of this in their recent releases. Check out some tunes here: http://www.garageband.com/artist/KenFava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Originally posted by Kendrix: I call Tony Williams a cymbal player - not a drummer- just to make a point about his cymbal-focused style. It certaily works for him. However,it can be an interesting and nice change to add in some bells or other high frequency oriented perc in place of cymbals. I try to do this occasionally. I seem to recall that S. Dan/W. Becker does some of this in their recent releases.Yeah, a triangle can really make it. Tambourine too. It's interesting to try to pull out a cymbal during some african drumming type of stuff, when you haven't heard a cymbal in a while. A bell works, no question, but the complex sound of a (good) cymbal is a really strange thing to throw in there... A lot of damping seems to work, being as conscious of the cutoff as the attack... Nice cymbals are a wonderful, wonderful thing, and to a lot of extent they make jazz jazz. It's very important not to play them too LOUD, and the jazz cats are amazing how they tickle those things and pound the drums all at once. Frequently during jazzy numbers I'll play nothing but ride cymbal for a while- no hats, no nothing. Then as you add each element of the kit, it's so fresh! You don't miss it in it's absence, and it's an event where it comes in. COmpare to drumming styles where everything gets hit often- it lacks arrangement power. The switch from ride to hat is practically the only arrangement event going in a scene like that, unless you have a cowbell to come in with now and then. I'm bewildered by drummers who can play all kindsa notes and it sounds good- for me, every stroke better count or it seems really hack. Some of it is the presentation of the drums as having a tonal quality that contributes to the music- space makes that possible, you can hear the drum decays and the cymbal decays, and the attacks too. I always get thrown when the drum tones don't fit the music- it happens a lot. Everything ought to contribute to the whole, IMHO. Every damn little thing. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Yeah, Jedi, I think I'd really have to hear an example of what's annoying you. And then again, it's all personal taste...what I find annoying you might not, and vice versa... That said...one of my favorite drummers is Carter Beauford, and his cymbal use is a lot of what I find appealing about his playing. "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc taz Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 http://www.tama.com/web-ads/MikePortnoy/images/MikePortnoy_02.jpg Over the top, but way cool! "Even though Dream Theater isn't my favorite band, I had a pen and paper, so what the f***?" - Mike Portnoy, relaying Kevin Moore's translation of a Japanese woman's comment on a personal vid camera in 1993. sevenstring.org profile my flickr page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenElevenShadows Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I like some drummers who play cymbals with a great deal of nuance, and I also think that Jack DeJohnette plays cymbals very well. Ken Lee Photography - photos and books Eleven Shadows ambient music The Mercury Seven-cool spacey music Linktree to various sites Instagram Nightaxians Video Podcast Eleven Shadows website Ken Lee Photography Pinterest Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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