NI Komplete Pianos...

[Sam CA]

I've been playing around with NI Komplete 12 ultimate pianos for a while. According to NI forums, these pianos haven't been updated, so I assume they sound just like older versions?

 

They're not super detailed pianos (like Ivory II) but still they sound good me thinks. I haven't really used them within thick orchestrations just yet. This is definitely not this piano vs. that piano type of post. I'm just sharing how I feel about them for solo works.

 

The Grandeur:

[video:youtube]

 

The Maverick:

[video:youtube]

 

The Gentleman:

[video:youtube]

 

Alicia's Keys:

[video:youtube]

 

 

The Giant:

[video:youtube]

 

[EricBarker]

Alicia's Keys is my solid workhorse. It's probably not the best, definitely not the newest, but I feel like possibly the most instantly playable for the widest variety of material. I'm not one to have 50 different piano sounds for every song, so that's attractive to me. These other ones are newer than the last time I updated Komplete (maybe it was version 10?) But I HATED the NI pianos before that: "New York Grand", "Berlin Grand", they all sounded awful to me. Alicia's Keys is Scarbee, I've never seen him put out anything that I didn't like.

[Sam CA]

... But I HATED the NI pianos before that: "New York Grand", "Berlin Grand", they all sounded awful to me. Alicia's Keys is Scarbee, I've never seen him put out anything that I didn't like.

 

I love Scarbee's libraries...especially his EPs. I don't think I've played New York Grand yet. In fact I don't remember seeing that in Native Access. Berlin Grand, I didn't like either. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough!

[Bobadohshe]

Alicia's has the uncanny ability to slip into a pop mix really well.

[Mark Schmieder]

I have such good pianos that I just can't use these; I have yet to find a project where they outperform other choices. But they are from Galaxy Instruments, whose own pianos were until recently in my top bag of tricks.

 

On my ratings list, they are slightly above the middle. Everything above that is wicked expensive, but piano matters to me so I spent the dough.

 

They're perfectly fine in terms of sampling quality; just not as flexible as top-end libraries overall. And I don't think they're updated in K12, but my USB drive for installing K12 only arrived today (it was back-ordered) so I probably won't get around to updating my library drive right away.

 

Although The Grandeur gets the best reviews most places, The Maverick is my personal favourite, and the one I am most likely to eventually use, as I feel it beats out all of the other currently available historical models, except possibly the modeled versions in Pianoteq. This one is based off of a special build Bechstein for the King of Prussia in 1905.

 

To me, The Grandeur (Steinway D) sits a bit below Sampletekk Black Grand on my list, due to less fluidity in note-to-note connectivity. Ten years ago, these would have been top-of-list or nearly so; whereas the previous pianos in Komplete were just awful and couldn't even be edited to be useful, due to velocity problems and pedal handling, unless you do music that needs neither.

 

The upright is a Bechstein, so presumably should get a good retro sound, but since it came out, several excellent uprights have been released by others, including Pianoteq.

 

I thought there was a fourth, but don't see it in my list.

 

There's also Alicia's Keys, which is practically at the bottom of my own list, even when I try to use it in rock music where it simply needs to cut through and be bright. I even put it below the General MIDI piano in EWQL Goliath. Personal taste I suppose; many love it, as has been noted already above.

 

There are two others that I won't have experience with until I install K12, as I waited a few years this time to upgrade my collection.

[Sam CA]

Mark, I don't think NI Pianos are meant to compete with high end pianos.For one thing they're very small in comparison. Nonetheless, they're very playable and can hold their own. They're not entry level libraries for sure.

[zephonic]

The Grandeur is a fine sampled piano. It's not far behind TrueKeys, IMO.

[Mark Schmieder]

Sam, note that I place them slightly above the middle of the list, WAY above Ivory (though some others who share my dislike of Ivory's lack of note-to-note continuity or detailed configuration say the American D is a few steps beyond the other Ivory II fare).

 

I own several dozen acoustic piano libraries; likewise with Rhodes. :-)

 

The Grandeur is not markedly behind Galaxy Instruments Steinway, but both are surpassed by the Vintage D (also from them), which was top-of-list for many of us (for Steinway D's) until quite recently.

 

You can't beat the price (effectively free); that's for sure.

[Sam CA]

Sam, note that I place them slightly above the middle of the list, WAY above Ivory.....

 

Blasphemy! I love Ivory!

[Al Quinn]

The Grandeur is not markedly behind Galaxy Instruments Steinway, but both are surpassed by the Vintage D (also from them), which was top-of-list for many of us (for Steinway D's) until quite recently.

Mark, what is your current favorite all-around software AP?

[Reezekeys]

I'm reading these posts with some, well, bemusement. Mr Luddite here with the ancient "New York" piano, and loving it. For the jazz/funk/r&b/braz stuff I do, playing live, most of the time with a full band, this piano to my ears just works better than the "high-end" guys. If I was only recording, doing solo stuff or classical, perhaps my choice would be different. I did try the Grandeur, both live and in the studio, and the midrange seemed, for lack of a better word, "wooly" - not as crisp as the NY, and also with some weird phasey quality. I much preferred the sound of the NY at least, in the context I was using it in. Some of this probably has to do with the fact that I've been playing it for over ten years, on controllers with the same keybed (two Roland A800s and a PCR-M80 before that). Putting in that amount of time on makes it my instrument in the same way that one might be used to their own real acoustic piano after playing it for years. This is why it's hard for me to understand the constant search for the "best", or a "better" piano... as if one can never be satisfied. At what point do you stop the search and just work on making music with an instrument you've spent time with and are used to playing?

[jeffinpghpa]

I like some of their more unusual piano instruments like Una Corda and The Giant that are not just another "me too" Steinway grand. Nothing wrong with their grands, nothing special. I do like their uprights when I practice with headphones.

[Sam CA]

The Giant:

 

[video:youtube]

[Sam CA]

I'm reading these posts with some, well, bemusement. Mr Luddite here with the ancient "New York" piano, and loving it. For the jazz/funk/r&b/braz stuff I do, playing live, most of the time with a full band, this piano to my ears just works better than the "high-end" guys. If I was only recording, doing solo stuff or classical, perhaps my choice would be different. I did try the Grandeur, both live and in the studio, and the midrange seemed, for lack of a better word, "wooly" - not as crisp as the NY, and also with some weird phasey quality. I much preferred the sound of the NY at least, in the context I was using it in. Some of this probably has to do with the fact that I've been playing it for over ten years, on controllers with the same keybed (two Roland A800s and a PCR-M80 before that). Putting in that amount of time on makes it my instrument in the same way that one might be used to their own real acoustic piano after playing it for years. This is why it's hard for me to understand the constant search for the "best", or a "better" piano... as if one can never be satisfied. At what point do you stop the search and just work on making music with an instrument you've spent time with and are used to playing?

 

I'm a home player, so for solo works I can just have ONE good piano and be happy. For composition projects though, I do have my go-to pianos. It's nice to have multiple pianos for instant inspiration but even then I don't need 50 piano libraries.

[Mark Schmieder]

I expect my favourite to be Synchron Steinway B, once I can actually run it. SSD and extra memory should arrive on 24th.

 

My Komplete Ultimate 12 Collector's Edition arrived yesterday and installed overnight, so I'll get a chance to try "Una Corda" soon. Can't remember if I already had "The Giant".

[EscapeRocks]

The Grandeur is a fine sampled piano. It's not far behind TrueKeys, IMO.

 

The Grandeur is now my main piano in my gig rig. I have it dialed in, as far as the mechanics go. I then use outboard VST effects

 

I use iK Multimedia T-racks 5 Classic EQ

I also use Blue Wave Audio Chorus

 

For a song like Don't Stop Believing I use Blue Wave Audio Flanger

 

The depth controls for both chorus and flanger are mapped to knobs on my Komplete Kontrol S61MKII

 

Any control I might need to adjust, are of course native to the board in Plug-in Mode.

 

To get the Grandeur the way I wamted it for the Journey trib gig, I began with the built in "Crisp Pop Piano" preset I then removed the chorus effect, and shut off the pedal noise.

 

I leave the reverb set to small hall, and play with the distance till I like it. Subtle effect.

 

I use my T-Racks EQ to dial back the highs a bit as they are too sparkly.

 

It really sit very well in the mix at gigs, and cuts through where need be.

 

For Ballads where there's a lot of solo-type piano, I use a slightly darker eq.

[Sam CA]

...

 

The Grandeur is now my main piano in my gig rig. I have it dialed in, as far as the mechanics go. I then use outboard VST effects...

 

This is an open invitation for you and everybody else. If you have any video or audio recordings of NI Piano performances, feel free to post. It's always interesting to see how others use the same instruments in their own unique way.

 

I should've included this in my original post...but I can't seem to edit it anymore.

[Al Quinn]

.

[RABid]

I've always felt that the piano you grew up with has a big effect on "favorite" sampled libraries. A primary reason there is such a variety of favorites in threads such as this.

[Reezekeys]

This is an open invitation for you and everybody else. If you have any video or audio recordings of NI Piano performances, feel free to post. It's always interesting to see how others use the same instruments in their own unique way.

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2874401/Re_Post_a_great_Piano_sound_bu#Post2874401

[Sam CA]

Thank you AL and Reeze. I meant more like an actual link to a specific NI related piano track as oppose to a website or general piano thread, but thanks for sharing.

 

..................

 

Does anybody still use Akoustik Piano? I still have it on a VERY old computer.

[Doerfler]

hey Sam, I could tell if you were actually asking on your post previous to this but Rob (Reezekeys) is still using Akoustic Piano. I still have it but haven't touched it for a while.

[Sam CA]

I've always felt that the piano you grew up with has a big effect on "favorite" sampled libraries. A primary reason there is such a variety of favorites in threads such as this.

 

or how a certain piano fits in one's workflow. Someone on reddit told me The Giant is his most favorite piano, because he can reverse the samples and only The Giant produces that particular sound/effect that he wants!

 

I've seen 'heated' discussions about Pianos between users with extremely strong opinions who don't even play Piano! Sometimes it's just an internet thing where people can say whatever without getting challenged. When a substantial number of people repeat something, that almost becomes a fact. Not always, but some keyboards/libraries are considered weak for this very reason.

[zephonic]

The Grandeur is not markedly behind Galaxy Instruments Steinway, but both are surpassed by the Vintage D (also from them), which was top-of-list for many of us (for Steinway D's) until quite recently.

 

Goes to show there's no accounting for taste. To me, Grandeur is better to play than Galaxy Vintage D. I never used the Vintage D much, something about the velocity response didn't work well with my controllers. The tone was nice, though.

 

 

These days I mostly use Keyscape and Ravenscroft. Keyscape 1.0 wasn't very good for me, but subsequent updates have turned it around.

[Mark Schmieder]

RABid, in my case that's not true, because so far no one has sampled that piano: a Mason & Hamlin BB-series, either late 1920's or 1930's (I forget which, because my grandparents bought three of them at once).

 

Sure wish someone would though. At any rate, it may be why the Steinway is not ALWAYS my preference amongst sampled pianos -- though usually it is.

[Reezekeys]

Thank you AL and Reeze. I meant more like an actual link to a specific NI related piano track as oppose to a website or general piano thread, but thanks for sharing.

My link was directly to a thread message where I posted a u-tube of me playing the NI "New York" piano. Is that not a "specific NI related piano track"?

 

Maybe I'll just embed the u-tube right here, like I did in that old thread.

(Disclaimer, as I mentioned in the older thread I butchered the form and some of the chords of this great Jobim tune! Just wanted to showcase the sound of the piano. Also, those high strings coming in for a second were an accident! I meant to have them play only in the lower range.)

 

[video:youtube]

 

Does anybody still use Akoustik Piano? I still have it on a VERY old computer.

The original Akoustik Piano plugin had four pianos: a Steinway, Bosendorfer, Bechstein (grands) and a Steingraeber (upright). Later on, NI discontinued the plugin but packaged each of these pianos' samples into separate instruments that loaded into Kontakt. The "New York" piano I played is the original Steinway from Akoustik Piano.

[Sam CA]

Thank you AL and Reeze. I meant more like an actual link to a specific NI related piano track as oppose to a website or general piano thread, but thanks for sharing.

My link was directly to a thread message where I posted a u-tube of me playing the NI "New York" piano. Is that not a "specific NI related piano track"?

 

Maybe I'll just embed the u-tube right here, like I did in that old thread.

(Disclaimer, as I mentioned in the older thread I butchered the form and some of the chords of this great Jobim tune! Just wanted to showcase the sound of the piano. Also, those high strings coming in for a second were an accident! I meant to have them play only in the lower range.)

 

 

Does anybody still use Akoustik Piano? I still have it on a VERY old computer.

The original Akoustik Piano plugin had four pianos: a Steinway, Bosendorfer, Bechstein (grands) and a Steingraeber (upright). Later on, NI discontinued the plugin but packaged each of these pianos' samples into separate instruments that loaded into Kontakt. The "New York" piano I played is the original Steinway from Akoustik Piano.

 

Oh, I didn't realize that was your video. It looked like a general piano thread on the phone. That string patch sounded pretty good actually. I didn't know the NY piano was from Akoustik package. Akoustik was my first piano library.

 

[zephonic]

My link was directly to a thread message where I posted a u-tube of me playing the NI "New York" piano. Is that not a "specific NI related piano track"?

 

Maybe I'll just embed the u-tube right here, like I did in that old thread.

(Disclaimer, as I mentioned in the older thread I butchered the form and some of the chords of this great Jobim tune! Just wanted to showcase the sound of the piano. Also, those high strings coming in for a second were an accident! I meant to have them play only in the lower range.)

 

[video:youtube]

 

You'd sound good on a 1987 Yamaha PSR, but some of us need a little more help :-)

 

[Al Quinn]

Sam, I tried to delete a post I made and the best I could come up with was to reduce it to an empty post. The website is in my signature and was not intended as a response to your question. Sorry for the confusion.

[Reezekeys]

Thanks for the kind words Zephonic! I really think some of that performance is a little laughable, as I seem to forget the chords in a few places. I never learned the song, and was just trying to bluster my way through on my faulty memory. But IIRC that thread was about the sound of sampled pianos in a solo context and I thought it illustrated the sound of the New York piano pretty well.

 

Just to finish up on the history of these early NI sampled pianos: as I said, after NI discontinued Akoustik Piano, they broke out the four pianos into individual packages that would load into Kontakt. Akoustik's Steinway became the "New York", the Bosendorfer became the "Vienna", the Bechstein became the "Berlin" and the Steingraeber upright became, surprise, the "Upright." You could buy each piano individually for $59 or $69 IIRC, and they also offered a package of all four called the "Classic Piano Collection." I assume they also included them in one or more of the Komplete packages too, but I'm not positive about that.

 

I might be wrong but I think the current "Grandeur" is a Steinway. I wanted to like it and assumed it would be better than the New York, since it replaced it. I worked with a writer/producer who owns it, on his tunes at his studio, and we fed my midi tracks into both his Grandeur and my New York. He prefered the Grandeur. I liked my old New York piano go figure! Was I biased because it was "my" piano? I really don't think so; I would have been happy to know NI advanced the art of sampled pianos and would probably have purchased it. I looked at the interface and it does have quite a few enhancements over the NY Piano in terms of features. I just didn't like the sound as much, in the context of the music a piano trio playing jazz with latin elements. I know this is all very subjective but my NY Piano just seemed to have less midrange "woolyness" that made it sit in the mix better both comping and soloing. The upper register was definitely a little "creamier" than the NY, with more of a singing sustain really nice, but the midrange was the deal-killer. FWIW I did spend time trying to tweak the EQ and other controls on the Grandeur (especially the velocity response curves) to make it more to my liking without success.