OT: Fatherhood and Stress

[nursers]

I'm convinced this is a BIG issue. Let's share some stories on the stresses of fatherhood...

 

How do you survive that first 6 months with more than one child? How did you find your relationship changed with your spouse after children? Who do you talk to when it gets a bit hard?

 

I obviously have a vested interest: guidance

[fantasticsound]

Only have one child, my daughter, Lilly.

 

First 6 months were a breeze, though they seemed to last 10 years.

 

The next 4 1/2 have been murder. Lilly's 5 going on 15. Still, she's the light of my life and the best reason to wake up to another day on Earth.

[zeronyne]

My daughter turned 2 in March. I have a few words of advice for you.

 

1) If your baby is not sleeping through the night, it is damaging to you and your kid. Trust me on this. In the last two years, I have yet to sleep 8 hours straight except for when I travel. Use one of the techniques to get that continuous REM cycle for the kid. It will be heartbreaking to hear him/her cry for 4 hours, but it'll be a little less each night, until everyone has stabilized and is happier. Seriously, studies are showing that babies that don't sleep the night can have cognitive challenges later on.

 

2) This does not apply yet, but under no circumstances should you make a habit (habit=twice in a row) of letting your kid sleep in your bed. I have a cousin and a colleague who did this, and they can't get them to sleep in their own bed without World War III every night.

 

3) Specifically for fathers: participate, even if you are dead tired. Even if you've been working all day, relieve your wife of child-rearing duty at night. This single thing, as horribly tiring as it is, has totally changed my wife's stress level which, in turn, has totally eliminated my stress.

 

I can't say this about any of my friends who have kids. One works 10 hours a day, so he feels entitled to kick back when he gets home. Another feels like he should get 2 hours a night to play with his home studio but won't watch his own son for 30 minutes while his wife goes to the grocery store. The resentment is not worth any perceived benefit, in my opinion, and the benefit is arguable. Besides, there's nothing like playing with your own child.

 

4) Create a schedule. Stick to it like glue. Once you have a second child, the schedule will be quite possibly the difference between sanity and completely going apesh_t.

 

5) Have sex any time you can. With your wife is a bonus ...and you may have to work it into the schedule, because I guarantee that's the first thing to be jettisoned off of the engine-less plane called family life.

[videoeditor1]

1. Every child is different. I'm raising my fourth (2nd biological, younger brother, wife's 1st son). Adjust accordingly.

 

2. Hold your kid as much as you can.

 

3. Kids do not arrive with consciences. Don't hold them so tight that you want to strangle them!

 

4. Some kids like motion. Strollers, cars, etc. Both of my kids slept thru flights from NY-LA & LA-Hawaii (5hrs each), and will sleep thru a 4 hr car drive.

 

5. Take care of yourself, so you can take care of your spouse and your kid(s).

 

6. Pay careful attention to your environment, and what gets on your kid...

 

Now for specific responses to your questions...

 

How do you survive? Adapt!

 

Who do you talk to? Your parents. Your spouse. Other child rasing couples. Yourself. The kid. Your diary/journal.

[Phait]

The F word.

 

Eugh.

 

I'm never having kids, simply for the fact that babie's crying is very irritating to me.

 

But they make a rather nice delicacy.

 

I do like kids though, my best friend has a little brother (7/8) and sister (5/6) and they're so awesome, funny and cute. So perhaps when I'm older I might want a kid but I've been saying no no never! But truthfully I just don't want THE BABY!

 

That friend suggested I adopt, but I want my own little evolution-of-a-bubble if ever.

[nursers]

Phait, you'd be surprised how your own baby's cry isn't quite as annoying. Well at least sometimes

 

Great stories guys

[Tedster]

Yeah, them not sleeping through the night is the hard part. It passes after a few months...which won't seem very long...in retrospect. But, of course, while it's going on, it seems like forever.

 

What worked, when I was gigging, was that Deb would be asleep when I came home after the gig, which was just about the time the baby was waking up...so I'd have some nice quiet time feeding the baby.

 

Another thing for new fathers...this is important! If your wife is nursing, and she pumps breast milk into a bottle so you can feed the little goober while she's gone... The baby won't want to suck on the bottle at first, they want MAMA (and who can blame them?) Get yourself some Cool Whip. Dip the nipple in Cool Whip...they'll suck on it long enough to realize that what they want is in the bottle. A great "sanity saver".

 

Other than that, as junior or juniette gets older, make sure your wife and you have an agreement to NEVER disagree about discipline in front of the kid. NEVER. EVER. You can disagree, but do it privately. Something my wife never understood, and then she wonders why our kids are spoiled.

 

Oh, yeah, and yes, grab some sex as often as you can. Some people get the wrong impression that the more kids you have, the more sex you have. In fact, it's an inverse relationship.

[henryrobinett]

Your own kid(s) changes everything. I saw a show on childbirth before my first was born and it grossed me out. But with MY son it was the MOST BEAUTIFUL THING I'VE EVER SEEN!!. Even changing diapers was a breeze. Isn't it great what love can do?

 

Both of my sons slept in our bed until they were about 4 and 5. A sacrifice I was willing to make. We tried but I couldn't stand the crying. We were rejecting him. It was heart wrenching. He didn't know why we didn't want him in our bed any more. Finally I kept saying "OK on your 4th birthday you're gonna be a big boy and you're gonna have to sleep in your own bed!" I gave him almost a full year to prepare. What can I say. My boys are extremely secure. They're 11 and 13. It was a little tough on the sex life but it makes you be creative and less complacent about it. So that's a good thing, right? Today I still would've done exactly the same thing.

[felix.]

Somehow when we had our second son, we thought that it would be a bit less than twice the work of one kid. But somehow it felt like way more than twice the work.

 

I talked with my mom at one point (she had 4 kids), and she remembered what a big jump it was from one to two kids. At the time, we had a bunch of friends who each had just one kid, and they didn't understand.

 

There are a lot of dynamics that get added to the recipe when that second kid comes along. Some of my challenges:

 

The little one eventually learns from the older one, so you better be on your parenting game with the older one so the little one learns the right things. My wife and I were making a lot of parenting mistakes, and it's more work to undo those habits than it would have been to have had a tight parenting ship to begin with.

 

There are dynamics between the two. Not so much in the beginning, but now that my boys are 7 and 4, they definitely excercise power struggles between each other and push each others' buttons. Managing this can be difficult, or if you choose to let them work it out between themselves, it can be a challenge just to put up with it.

 

I find it hard to give either of them their own time with me. They both want to do everything, so it's hard to exclude one, while I still feel it is important for me to have some one-on-one time with both of them. This is something I'm still working on.

 

As for the relationship, I really wonder what we did with all of our free time before. Feels like 90% of our free time is spent taking care of what needs to be taken care of for the kids, and the other 10% we're lucky if we can stay awake.

 

Through counseling, we've learned how to be more consistent and present a much more "united front" to the kids. We've also learned how to stick by what we say, and back each other up. These are the best things we've ever learned, and have significantly reduced the chaos that parenting had become at our house.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've got two great kids. My wife and I have a great marriage. Being a parent is the most important, most difficult, and most rewarding "job" I've ever had - or ever will. I wouldn't trade it for anything, and for my kids' sake, I hope we keep getting better at it.

 

... but we're not trying for a third kid, that's for sure!

[Hound Dog]

Set yourself up for success:

 

Eliminate frustration as much as possible. Use only one style of bottle / nipple and sipper cup / flow valves. It is bad enough getting up in the middle of the night, worse when you can't find the right nipple to match the bottle.

 

Always plan ahead and layout clothes for the next day.

 

Don't have unrealistic expectations of your child. Their attention span will not be the same as yours. To expect them to occupy themselves while you are waiting for the car to be serviced might be expecting too much. Keep something handy.

[KenElevenShadows]

I'm a teacher and don't have any kids. Some good advice above. I'd say be consistent, loving, but firm. Both parents should be on the same page. Consistency is important even when the kid is no more than a giant id. Be loving and attentive, but don't overdo it. Allow the kid to do their own thing and don't be domineering.

[Salyphus]

Sex, Drugs, & Rock 'n' Roll.

[antimatter]

How do you survive that first 6 months with more than one child? How did you find your relationship changed with your spouse after children? Who do you talk to when it gets a bit hard?

I have three(7,5,3) and so far, so good. So here's my three answers.

 

1. Babies need you for everything. It's tough. I agree with those above; longer periods of continuous sleep are a major stress reliever. Once it becomes routine, you can plan accordingly. I found that with each child, we were a little more assertive. This is because of need. You have to spread the 'care time', so the little one may have to cry out some tough spots out. You gotta be a little tough sometimes for reasons of sanity. The baby period goes by quick though. New challenges pop up as milestones are achieved. Keep the home 'happy' as much as you can. That helps everyone. Patience, patience, patience.

 

2. Parenthood is the biggest life change I've ever experienced. My wife is very focused on being Mommy. It can be tough to be married to Mommy. Best thing I can say is to make dates. Get a babysitter, go out, don't talk about the kids, and do whatever. Everyone needs a break.

 

3. It's important to establish good communication with your wife. Woman have an enormous amount of pressure on them as Mommy. Vent to each other. Sometimes you need to say "THIS SUCKS!". You can then adjust life accordingly.

 

That's off the top of my head. I have to log off now, my daughter wants to play Zoo Tycoon!

[Lee Flier]

Well, I don't have kids myself, but based on various friends' experiences I gotta agree with Henry and say it's better to let the kids sleep in your bed from birth until at least 3 years old, sometimes up to 5, depending on the kid. If they sleep with you as very young babies they won't wake up crying as often and you get more sleep. It's also way better for the kid, according to numerous studies, and my experience of my friends' babies who've done this would agree... if you think about it, babies have pretty much the same biological needs as young animals do, since they haven't developed logic yet and you can't reason with them and tell them why they're being left alone for hours at a time. To a very young baby it seems like forever, and is very traumatic. Early humans slept with their babies and carried them everywhere with them while they worked until the babies could walk... so this is what they expect.

 

I have friends who've taken this to heart and not only let their babies sleep with them, but carry them in a baby sling as much as possible until the baby starts to crawl. They don't make the baby the center of attention all the time - the baby doesn't care about that so much, they just want the physical contact with you, plus the opportunity to observe from a secure place what you and the rest of the family do, which really helps imprint in their minds how they're supposed to behave later. My friends' babies who did this are just remarkably mellow - they don't get colic, rarely cry or fuss, and really enjoy being in new situations. Most babies, when you hold them they often seem like a bundle of nerves, you can feel how tense their muscles are - these babies are super relaxed and feel like a sack of potatoes when you pick them up. They've turned into VERY secure well adjusted kids. Most of them had no problem leaving their parents' bed at the appropriate age, because the parents prepared them for it by stressing for some time beforehand how "cool" and grown-up it was to have your own room, and let the kid(s) help choose the bed and decorate the room and all.

 

Anyway, just thought I'd pass that along because it saved quite a few people I know no end of the typical parental stress, and seems to have been awfully healthy for the kids, too.

[Bunny Knutson]

Great posts from Henry and Lee.

 

Co-sleeping is natural and very beneficial to children.

[henryrobinett]

Lee, about the kids sleeping in the same bed thing - It was the most natural thing. We all slept really. The children cuddled up next to you. You slept because you knew what was going on, except those rare times in the beginning when you'd wake up startled. "Do you hear him breathing? Is he BREATHING!? LOL. But later on we would start transporting him to his own bed after he'd fallen alseep. And if he wanted to sleep with us, which happened from time to time, though rarely, we never said no.

 

The child slept because he's with you and not a care in the world. Doesn't wake up crying, ever. Fussing for the bottle, yes.

 

My wife and I always took turns with the bottle after she stopped breastfeeding. We'd have some ready made and I'd get up and put it in the microwave, even if it was her turn. She needed the rest. She carried for 9 months. Now it was my turn. The way we looked at it raising our children is a 100/100% proposition. The mother is no more responsible for feeding and care than the father, in this house anyway. 50/50 insinuates that either parent is less than 100% responsible. Don't work that way here. My wife travels a lot, like now. There are a lot of times when it's just me. And believe it or not, a lot of times it's easier that way. I'm not waiting for her to do something. I gots to do it. We don''t get our signals crossed, which can happen easily with two parents on the go flow.

 

The major problem with raising kids, one of them anyway, is that it's a two pole universe. Two parents with child make it a three pole universe (or a bifurcated two pole - parents ,<--> Child) and the truly talented child can make it work against you by trying to play one parent off the other. To that end Ted had an excellent suggestion. Never question each others authority in front of the kids. Countermanding and order or direction is a big no-no that causes all kinds of confusion and upset for everyone involved. It's much harder raising a kid from a broken home. THAT's really hard.

 

two cents

 

Edited: Bunny - How'd we post these at the exact same time?!

[antimatter]

Henry, you sound like a really good Dad.

Lee, you should have kids.

[Lee Flier]

Well that would mean I'd need a husband.

[henryrobinett]

Details, details.

[nursers]

You guys rock, some superb info in there

 

So how bout in-laws - or more specifically, I'm convinced the majority of males have a much better relationship with their in-laws than females do with their spouses parents. Agree or disagree?

[henryrobinett]

Originally posted by nursers:

So how bout in-laws - or more specifically, I'm convinced the majority of males have a much better relationship with their in-laws than females do with their spouses parents. Agree or disagree?

My mother in-law is a wonderful woman. No problems. My father in-law was also very nice, even though he came from the old school where marrying a black guy wasn't in the cards. He dealt with it well.

 

My wife is great with my mom, and my mom is no picnic. The reason I have a relationship at all with my mother is due to the good efforts of my wife to maintain sunday dinners with her and her gently encouraging me to give my mother a call every once in a while.

 

So things with the in-laws are peachy.

[cherri]

When I married at 22 I inherited three full time step kids aged 11, 10, and 8. I got to spend ten wonderful fun filled years being their stepmother (meaning - all the work and none of the respect), while playing referee to my hubby and his ex who loathed each other and would use the kids as pawns in their petty squabbles. I had my son when the stepkids were in junior high and high school so essentially I never slept. I'd be up a the crack of dawn with the baby, then be up half the night waiting for one of the older kids to get home, because they were in all varieties of trouble. When I had my daughter, two of the step kids had since moved out on their own, (shortly to return with babies of their own). I told my stepson and his GF, as well as my setpdaughter, that if they stayed in high school I would watch their babies for them each day.

 

I'm very very very happy now that my own kids are teens - and not in any trouble - and that the stepkids are all grown up now.

[videoeditor1]

Nursers,

 

Quit picking our brains and tell us whats bugging ya!!

 

Both me and the missus lost our dads, so it's mom in law only, both ways...

 

So far, everybody is cool all around. I don't know if your observation is accurate of not...my folks and her folks get along ok with me and vice versa...

 

NYC Drew

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Well that would mean I'd need a husband.

Not necessarily, these days. Quite a few single moms I know are that way by choice (as opposed to the result of a guy skipping out on them).

 

But being a parent is HARD! It's very natural and I wouldn't trade it for anything in the entire world. Still, having two people to trade off parental duties makes things a lot easier. Sometimes, you really have to walk away for awhile so you can get your perspective back.

 

But every day, my boy is the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning, and the last thing before I go to sleep. By nature of the gig, you have to put a lot of yourself aside for a long time. You try not to lose who you are, and accept who you become. It's a tough change to handle for a lot of people... hence the stress.

 

And like the cliche goes, I wouldn't trade it for the world.

 

- Jeff

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Well that would mean I'd need a husband.

Not necessarily, these days. Quite a few single moms I know are that way by choice (as opposed to the result of a guy skipping out on them).

Yeah, I know it's considered "acceptable" to do that these days, but I think that sucks, and it ain't OK in MY book.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Yeah, I know it's considered "acceptable" to do that these days, but I think that sucks, and it ain't OK in MY book.

What? Lee Flier sticks to her ethics? I'm shocked!

 

- Jeff

[Your Ad Here]

I have one child (son) and feel I can pull some advice out of my arse without too much difficulty. My brother has triplets, so I've seen the extremes.

 

It seems to me that to do it right you have to embrace to concept of Controlled Chaos. That is, chaos will ensue but should only exist within certaim guidlines - i.e. a structured schedule. Time management and structure built around a detailed and specific schedule is the only way to succeed. It's good for the children and it's good for the parents. Children crave structure and teaching them your expectations around specific time periods of the schedule is a great place to start. Also, you can block out time for yourselves. For example, you can spend your time after their bedtime to work on your art or hang with your spouse.

 

I say be militant with the schedule and let life unfold withinn those time frames you've designated. "play time" "reading time" etc. Also, make sure your spouse is on board with the planning.

 

Best of luck.

[nursers]

Originally posted by NYC Drew:

Nursers,

 

Quit picking our brains and tell us whats bugging ya!!

There's nothing bugging me specifically, just been thinking about this stuff over the past few weeks. There are a heap of reasons why guys die earlier than females, but I think one of those reasons is guys have less contact with their extended family than females do. How many of you out there spend as much time at your parents etc than your spouses?

[tnb]

My wife and I have a 3 year old girl - she was unplanned. Anyway, we must be the luckiest people on earth. She has been sleeping through the night consistently since she was 3 months old. In fact, the first year was a breeze. She sleeps in her own bed, unless I am out of town or getting in really late.

I am home with her most days, so we don't do the daycare thing.

 

Our only problem is with well meaning friends and relatives that spoil her rotten. They must be stopped.

 

She is our only child. Nobody wins the lottery twice.

[offramp]

The only drawback I can see to Lee becoming a mother is that during pregnancy that gold top would become a lap steel.