OT: Possible early hearing loss. Advice?

[nadroj]

Last month I was sitting in the car with my daughter and she commented about a car alarm she could hear. I thought she was joking but I rolled down the window and lo and behold there was a car alarm blaring right next to us that I couldn't hear.

 

I was at the Doctors last month and asked about it, thinking it was a build up of wax. He examined my ears and said that it's likely I have early age hearing loss. He referred me for some tests, but I haven't had them yet.

 

I already wear earplugs and use in ears most of the time, though that hasn't always been the case, though I know plenty of guys who've been more reckless than me and haven't had issues.

I'm pretty sure in a decade or so there'll be plenty of new treatments available to stop it getting too bad early on, so I'm not terribly concerned. Saying that, I'm 27 and already it's pretty annoying feeling like everything I hear is muffled, even if a lot of it is probably just in my head.

 

Anyone got any damage control/prevention tips to make sure it doesn't get worse, or any encouragements if you've been through something similar? Would be appreciated!

[Song80s]

Last month I was sitting in the car with my daughter and she commented about a car alarm she could hear. I thought she was joking but I rolled down the window and lo and behold there was a car alarm blaring right next to us that I couldn't hear.

 

I was at the Doctors last month and asked about it, thinking it was a build up of wax. He examined my ears and said that it's likely I have early age hearing loss. He referred me for some tests, but I haven't had them yet.

 

I already wear earplugs and use in ears most of the time, though that hasn't always been the case, though I know plenty of guys who've been more reckless than me and haven't had issues.

I'm pretty sure in a decade or so there'll be plenty of new treatments available to stop it getting too bad early on, so I'm not terribly concerned. Saying that, I'm 27 and already it's pretty annoying feeling like everything I hear is muffled, even if a lot of it is probably just in my head.

 

Anyone got any damage control/prevention tips to make sure it doesn't get worse, or any encouragements if you've been through something similar? Would be appreciated!

 

1 ear or both ears ? Seems like your Doc isn't saying much. Likely waiting for test results.

 

Since we are not medical doctors, and we are all different, I am not certain if my experience is applicable. Or my guess work.

 

Follow up, work with your Doc and get to a specialist ASAP

[Stokely]

I had a similar "oh crap" moment. I was lying on the sofa on my side, couldn't hear anything...then I turned over and suddenly heard the higher-pitched bubbling of my aquarium. In my case this was in my 40s though.

 

I also went to the doc hoping it was just a wax thing, I specifically asked about it...that's pretty funny

 

No tips other than "avoid loud sounds" and try to avoid constant noise (for peace of mind as well). I think having earplugs handy is a good idea and you are doing what you can.

 

I switched to IEMs for live gigs, which my doc wasn't thrilled about when I told her...actually playing in a band period, understandable...but my ears no longer ring after shows. I think being next to cymbals has been the main culprit. I still remember four big crashes on a Neil Young song we played 5 years ago, my ears "distorted"...scary stuff. We also switched to a drummer that doesn't play like a caveman all the time, and did away with all amps on stage. I monitor as quietly as I can, even though it would sound better/more energetic if I turned up.

 

Since I noticed this, I haven't really seen any worsening, nothing drastic at any rate. That was about 8-10 years ago.

[eric]

IEMs are the solution to this, from my experience. Will share more later what I've seen along with some of my musician friends.

[MathOfInsects]

I too had a panic moment with muffled hearing, to the point where I would miss entire sentences. Then on the flip side sometimes I could no longer tolerate any loud sounds and would have to leave the room. I went to the doctor desperate for a hearing test stat. I was actually pretty depressed that I might be losing the one sense I really cared about.

 

The doctor pissed me off by asking me a bunch of dumb questions instead of checking my hearing: What medications do I take, what kinds of medical issues are in my family, etc. I was like, "Enough with the nonsense and check my damn ears."

 

He didn't, though. He sent me home with the dumbest instructions I've ever gotten from a doctor who was supposed to be treating a hearing issue: stop taking Prilosec and start drinking coffee in the morning. Come back in two weeks and then we can see if I still need a hearing test.

 

Whatever. I did it, just to get back and take my test.

 

But guess what?

 

He nailed it. The culprit was fluid build-up around the cochlea from the salts in the antacids, which are actually more of a 14-hour medication than a 12-hour one, meaning if you take them twice a day (which I did) you end up with a bunch of extra sodium in your system. And the coffee? He suspected it was a particular kind of migraine triggered by those salts, which affects the auditory nerves. Caffeine treats migraines.

 

He was right.

 

That dumb-ass turned out to be a genius.

 

Ears are still fine, thank goodness. A little age-appropriate roll-off at the top end, and that's it.

 

So...review your diet and see if the fluid issue could be contributing to the muffling. It was night and day for me.

[MikeT156]

Always carry hearing protect with you! Besides sitting or playing next to a guitar player that ALWAYS plays TOO LOUD, there are many common sources of noise that damage your hearing. Example: Lawn Mowers. Hearing damage occurs when you are subject to any noise that is louder than conversation level for a long period of time. So its not just how loud, its also how long. Cutting the grass and running a mower for an hour at 95 DB damages your hearing. Running a chain saw, or ambulance and police Sirens damage your hearing.

 

 

Mike T.

[RABid]

My hearing loss comes and goes, and so does tinnitus. I first thought it was age and the result of loud music. Turns out that it is mostly allergy based, which explains the come and go.

[Desert Rat]

My hearing loss started at the same age (27). While it was more attributable to some surgeries I had on my neck as well as a coupld of Led Zeppelin concerts, the best advice I can give is to see an audiologist and have a complete hearing evaluation done.

 

That way you will be able to track any changes and deal with them in the best way possible. I have mine from over the years and I can see exactly where certain frequencies dropped out.

 

While it is unlikely you will need hearing aids at this point, if you have audiograms to go by, you will be able to take appropriate steps to improve your hearing. (I used the LACE program suggested by my audiologist and saw marked improvement.) This is the best advice I can give at this point.

 

Oh,and yes, I am a medical professional.

[cedar]

I'm 55 and fortunate not to have any notable hearing loss. (I'm sure there is some, but not having an impact on my life.) Probably helped that I took an extended hiatus from playing with loud groups.

 

But recently, I've noticed a slight, intermittent tinnitus, which has me a little concerned. At seemingly random times, I just notice a little ringing. It's subtle. Doesn't last and never really bothers me. Yet, I am wondering if it is a sign of worse things to come.

 

One thing I wonder about in particular is my habit of listening to music through noise-canceling earbuds for a couple of hours a day (while commuting). I don't think I am listening at high volumes. But it wouldn't surprise me if this habit is causing some damage. That would be a shame because it's my primary way of listening to music nowadays.

[CowboyNQ]

Last month I was sitting in the car with my daughter...

How old is your daughter? Young children have the ability to hear frequencies adults cannot...you may not be in as bad a shape as you think you are.

 

I posted on here a while back that a few years ago my youngest was able to tell me when I left my "Shuroo" (high pitched frequency sound that supposedly clears kangaroos from the highway) on in urban areas from inside the car, which was something that my older son, my wife and I could not hear at all.

 

 

[Synthoid]

I posted on here a while back that a few years ago my youngest was able to tell me when I left my "Shuroo" (high pitched frequency sound that supposedly clears kangaroos from the highway)

 

 

 

[Markyboard]

NIOSH Sound Level Meter in case I'm not the only one who was unaware of the free app until recently.

[nadroj]

Update: Got my hearing test and saw the specialist today. I have moderate to severe hearing loss in both ears. Ear drums are perfectly fine, but the nerves around my ear aint. The frequencies I'm missing are mid-ranged, and he said the shape of my hearing range is unusual; the frequencies I've lost aren't usually associated with noise damage. He put it down to a hereditary condition I've probably always had, which probably wasn't helped by almost 2 decades of playing loud music live.

 

Going forward I have two choices; do nothing and live with reduced hearing, or go for hearing aids. At 27 years old. I've agreed to try out one in my right ear to see how I get on. Any of you folks have experience with hearing aids?

 

The funny thing is, tonight was also my first gig of the year

 

 

[cphollis]

I must be the anti-pattern in all of this.

 

I'm staring at 60 this year, but my hearing is beyond acute. I hear all sorts of things other people can't hear. Like out-of-tune guitars, bad intonation, vocal that are off, subtle distortions in the mix.

 

I think it's less my ears, more my ability to process sounds.

 

In all the bands I'm in, I'm considered the "ears". Although I do struggle with noisy environments trying to hear what people are saying.

[nadroj]

I must be the anti-pattern in all of this.

 

I'm staring at 60 this year, but my hearing is beyond acute. I hear all sorts of things other people can't hear. Like out-of-tune guitars, bad intonation, vocal that are off, subtle distortions in the mix.

 

I think it's less my ears, more my ability to process sounds.

 

In all the bands I'm in, I'm considered the "ears". Although I do struggle with noisy environments trying to hear what people are saying.

 

Hah. That reminds me: there was a guy in the waiting room at the audiologists today and he said to me "it's awful quiet in here." I joked "it's actually pretty loud, we probably just can't hear it." He didn't laugh.

[Joe Muscara]

there was a guy in the waiting room at the audiologists today and he said to me "it's awful quiet in here." I joked "it's actually pretty loud, we probably just can't hear it." He didn't laugh.

 

Good luck with whatever you do. Being a musician, you're probably going to spend more time getting this right for yourself than the average person. Be patient with the process and you should end up with great results.

[kbrkr]

You can use this site to test your hearing;

 

What level can you hear?

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/

 

I'm VERY fortunate to have started using hearing protection since my early TEEN years playing the drums and piano / bands. I have religiously used them and at 63, my hearing is still very good at 14khz.

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

NIOSH Sound Level Meter in case I'm not the only one who was unaware of the free app until recently.

 

Yes, that app I now consider essential. I'm posting some interpret the readings if you have not had it running for a full eight hours (which is what the TWA is based on).

 

I had taken some measurements and the TWA, which is what their website says is to be used to find the average sound level in the measuring time period, came out rather low, around 61 decibels each time I tested it, though I was sure it had to be louder. So I contacted them asking about it.

 

Max

 

 

 

First, Id like to tell you that Im glad you are taking an interest in preserving your hearing!! Many musicians dont realize that it is important to do so... until it is too late.

 

 

 

It sounds like you understand the basic concept of how noise exposure is measured. Based on TWA results of approximately 60 dBA alone, I would say you are not at risk for developing a noise-induced (in your case, music-induced) hearing loss.

 

 

 

However, Im actually surprised to see that your exposure level was that low. When you are playing/recording, can two people still carry on a normal conversation in the room, or do they have to raise their voices to hear/understand each other? If a normal conversation is not possible, then the ambient sound level is likely somewhere between 80-90 dBA, and just two hours at that level would cause the 8-hour TWA to be around 80 dBA or higher. Playing music at 80-90 dBA doesnt seem too loud to most people (especially if they like the type of music being played), so thats why Im questioning whether your measurements might have come out too low.

 

 

 

I suggest that you repeat the sound level measurements, and see if you come up with similar dBA levels. Let me know if you still have questions afterwards.

 

 

Redid the measurements, and sent the result sheets to them. It was still a low TWA, so I thought it was fine for levels then.

Hi Max,

 

 

 

I am the person responsible for the NIOSH app development and Ill be happy to answer any questions you have.

 

 

 

It is true that TWA, over 8-hours, is what NIOSH defines as the limit to prevent hearing loss and thats for repeated exposures over a long working lifetime. TWA starts at zero and grows but since youre running the measurements for few minutes, and TWA is calculated over 8 hours, you will always find the TWA number lower than 85 dBA limit, unless youre playing at very high levels.

 

 

 

The number I would focus on, another average, is the LAeq. LAeq or A-weighted equivalent sound level is another term we use for average and its defined as the average over the duration of your measurement. So if youre running the app for 3 minutes, the average sound level over those 3 minutes is given by that LAeq number. LAeq will equal TWA if the app runs for 8 hours. So looking at the attachments, I see that LAeq exceeded 85 dBA (10/18/18 @ 9:31 pm) which tells me whatever you were playing then could be considered hazardous to your hearing. NIOSH does recommend wearing hearing protection when sound levels exceed 85 dBA (though your best option is to lower the level youre playing at that point).

 

 

 

I want to echo what Dave said about your interest in preserving your hearing, good job! The app is just a tool to give you an idea of what sound levels are and if you have the app handy during your sessions and make mental notes of what and when sound levels exceeded the 85 number, you will soon develop a quick understanding of whats too loud and you will adjust your playing habits accordingly. Thanks again for your interest in the app, this is exactly how we envisioned it helping folks become aware of their exposures and do the right thing to preserve their hearing.

 

 

 

TL:DR Set weighting to A-weighted (that's the frequency range that human ears hear), and unless you run it for eight hours continuously at the volume you are testing, use the LAeq number as your average rather than the TWA. That LAeq is the average volume during the recorded time, which if run for eight hours will equal the TWA average.

[Marzzz]

The doctor pissed me off by asking me a bunch of dumb questions instead of checking my hearing: What medications do I take, what kinds of medical issues are in my family, etc. I was like, "Enough with the nonsense and check my damn ears."

Yeah, as a physician I love it when a patient thinks doing a thorough history and physical is a waste of time. You would be amazed at how something realtively innocuous can have such a huge effect on outcome. I have also had patients who pre-diagnosed themselves, and argue with me about the true diagnosis...or think I should treat their MRI instead of their actual problem.

 

 

(Sorry to vent!)

[TommyBoy]

I have friends that have never been to a doctor. They forego annual physicals and laugh at me for going every year. They skip the colonoscopy. They skip the PSA test and the prostate test every couple years (or however long the interval is now - it seems to change weekly)!

 

Even worse is when they say:

 

If I have something wrong with me I don't want to know about it. I know xxxx who became sick as a dog as soon as they started treating him for yyyy that he didn't even know he had.

 

Baffles the mind.

[The Real MC]

I'm hearing impaired due to a birth defect (60% loss in both ears) and have worn hearing aids all my life. I get my hearing checked regularly and at 56 it has not shown any sign of degradation.

 

Like you, the issue is the nerves. Mine never fully developed and the hearing loss is largely in the midrange speech area. It is believed that my mother may had been near someone with measles while she was carrying me, and this was before they discovered that measles can cause birth defects.

 

If you ever reach the point you need hearing aids, seek the services of a licensed audiologist. Do not go to "hearing aid centers" or those in retail stores. The audio quality of hearing aids varies all over the map. When I started wearing them at age three they were not very good. Digital hearing aids weren't a reality until the 1980s. Since 1995 I have worn a ReSound digital hearing aid that is absolutely the best I have ever heard. Ten years ago I sought out a replacement. My audiologist no longer carried ReSound so he had me try other brands. By that time, I was very familiar with pro audio engineering concepts of compression and spectral quality, and my ears have developed into very analytical devices. I also happened to work at the ideal "acid test" of hearing aids - I alternate between a quiet office and a busy loud production line, complete with forktrucks. The non-ReSound hearing aids failed to measure up, and my audiologist valued my input as I could frame the issues in engineering terms.

 

Despite my hearing impairment, it has never interfered with my ability to enjoy music.

[MorayM]

That really sucks, sorry to hear that Jordan! The only advice I can offer is to keep your plugs to hand wherever you go

[RandyFF]

I must be the anti-pattern in all of this.

 

I'm staring at 60 this year, but my hearing is beyond acute. I hear all sorts of things other people can't hear. Like out-of-tune guitars, bad intonation, vocal that are off, subtle distortions in the mix.

 

I think it's less my ears, more my ability to process sounds.

 

In all the bands I'm in, I'm considered the "ears". Although I do struggle with noisy environments trying to hear what people are saying.

 

That doesn't sound like its all a function of your hearing acuity. Even someone with perfect pitch could suffer from hearing loss. Like you said, being the ears is more about your ability to process sounds.

 

My hearing loss is typical, over 60 and many high frequencies are gone, and I often have trouble hearing/understanding people when they speak.

 

But my hearing loss/damage is also that I'm the first to complain about mid-frequency sharpness. I'm guessing its around 1-4k, and where others hear a punchy mix, I hear ear splitting frequencies. Haven't heard of others with this hearing damage.

[StanC]

FWIW, this may not apply, but I had hearing loss in my left ear so my primary doc sent me to an ENT specialist. He determined it was fluid leftover from a cold that would normally clear up on it's own in as much as several months. Well it kind of cleared up, but not 100%. Then another cold and I was right back where I was. Another visit and the ENT inserted a "T-Tube" (OUCH!!) which is used for children quite often. The T is for tympanic membrane. So what that means is a tube is inserted in the ear drum to allow drainage. Instant return of hearing 100%! But it does sound of weird - rightfully so since essentially there is a tiny hole in the ear drum. The membrane will hear itself over several months and push the tube out and all will be well. I guess until the next cold??

[Chris Link]

I recommend seeing an ENT rather than an audiologist, especially if this seems like something distinct from normal age-related hearing loss. An audiologist will give you a hearing aid that will probably help, but sometimes there are underlying medical or surgical issues that they may not pick up on.

 

Even better, find a neuro-otologist. Thats someone who did a fellowship (two years of memory serves) AFTER a full ENT residency (five years). They do nothing but ear-related care.