Funkin' Keyboards

[BbAltered]

The Soul Band wants to cover EWF's Shining Star. From the audio I can easily hear and figure out the keys for the Intro, Chorus, and the brief keys solo. What I cannot easily hear is what the keys are doing during the long vamp on the Idom7 that makes up the verse section of the song.

 

Can anyone help out? An accurate transcription would be great. Advice on how to groove in the verse section in a way consistent with the song feel and sound would be great (my default when unable to detect and cover a part is to find a chord voicing to support the chord sound (like a 3-7 shell voicing) and play it to support the bass (which in this song is mainly playing on 4and and 1), and above all to stay out of the way of the vocals).

 

Your thoughts and advice are appreciated.

[keyman27]

You could always lay out for that part. I don't hear any keys in there. Then when you come back in, it will give the song a little lift.

[timwat]

Here's an old live version (from the old Midnight Special TV show):

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

Larry Dunn gives us plenty of rhodes comp ideas here to jump off from. I look at the many funk tunes with long stretches of static harmony as the proving ground for gettin' greazy. It's the rhythm section's opportunity to show how mo' hipper they be.

[nickd]

On the studio version, sounds to me like there's no keys, except on the first verse there's a stabbed chord on beat 4 of every other bar. On later verses sounds like the horns take over that job. So laying out would work well.

 

Also, do you have two guitarists? If not, there's two guitar parts on much of the verse (chords, and single notes), and you could cover one of those.

[Shamanczarek]

You can hear a Wurly EP throughout in this isolated mix.

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8VaV6cEnPA

[burningbusch]

You can hear a Wurly EP throughout in this isolated mix.

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8VaV6cEnPA

 

Man, that's nice. I wish they had that kind of stuff when I was growing up.

 

Busch.

[agitato]

That is definitely a Rhodes not a Wurlitzer.

[Barryjam]

Its both an annoyance and really fun to learn parts from isolated tracks, only to have band mates say that doesnt sound right (because they are used to not hearing it or they have accommodated to the way their previous keyboard guy did it). Then, play the isolated track and watch their jaws drop!

[drawback]

Funkin Keyboards

 

Ive heard this many times, mostly from guitar players.

 

 

[timwat]

Funkin Keyboards

 

Ive heard this many times, mostly from guitar players.

 

 

[video:youtube]

[3rdAct]

Its both an annoyance and really fun to learn parts from isolated tracks, only to have band mates say that doesnt sound right (because they are used to not hearing it or they have accommodated to the way their previous keyboard guy did it). Then, play the isolated track and watch their jaws drop!

And it's a bummer for the musicians who lay out a nice comp, only to have it all but removed in the mix...

[dongna]

Its both an annoyance and really fun to learn parts from isolated tracks, only to have band mates say that doesnt sound right (because they are used to not hearing it or they have accommodated to the way their previous keyboard guy did it). Then, play the isolated track and watch their jaws drop!

In fairness, the isolated track is just that-- an isolated track. Useful, perhaps, for learning a part, but not necessarily to be used as a template for how you'd want a band to sound playing it (assuming you're attempting to be as faithful to the original as possible). If you're going to play the part that's been revealed in the isolated track, you might consider taking steps to make sure you're fairly far down in the mix during that stretch. Or at least work with your bandmates to make sure the keyboard part isn't stepping on other parts that people might be used to hearing at that point in the song.

[TommyRude]

You can hear a Wurly EP throughout in this isolated mix.

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8VaV6cEnPA

Never was a big fan of this song. But now hearing this, I dig it! Thanks for posting Shaman

[Dugg64]

Hey BbAltered:

 

Just sent you a PM with a possible solution to your dilemma.

 

Get back when you can : )

[zxcvbnm098]

That is some badass, funky Rhodes playing from Mr. Dunn. I've always loved that track, but the isolated stems is a revelation on what he was doing underneath. What a lesson in funk!

[Doerfler]

I wish they had that kind of stuff when I was growing up.

Agreed

 

That is definitely a Rhodes not a Wurlitzer.

Agreed

That is some badass, funky Rhodes playing from Mr. Dunn.

Agreed

Love this thread.

[ProfD]

The comping heard on that isolated track was just another day in the office and par for the course among funk KB players like Larry Dunn and the incomparable Billy Beck (Ohio Players).

 

Good luck copping the funk. It's not something easily "taught" or "learned".

[Bill H.]

Definitely prefer the tempo of the original. That live version has got to be a good 10bpm faster, and comes dangerously close to de-funkifying the entire track (IMO).

[Barryjam]

In fairness, the isolated track is just that-- an isolated track. Useful, perhaps, for learning a part, but not necessarily to be used as a template for how you'd want a band to sound playing it (assuming you're attempting to be as faithful to the original as possible). If you're going to play the part that's been revealed in the isolated track, you might consider taking steps to make sure you're fairly far down in the mix during that stretch. Or at least work with your bandmates to make sure the keyboard part isn't stepping on other parts that people might be used to hearing at that point in the song.

 

I agree with this, and I have found on several occasions that Im better off changing most often rhythms and sometimes notes or chords to fit with long established patterns of band mates, but sometimes they decide with me to change what they play, often asking for more isolated tracks of their instruments. Sure, you also never know if a burried sound contributed to a songs success.

[EricBarker]

Its both an annoyance and really fun to learn parts from isolated tracks, only to have band mates say that doesnt sound right (because they are used to not hearing it or they have accommodated to the way their previous keyboard guy did it). Then, play the isolated track and watch their jaws drop!

 

*SIGH* I encountered this big time with "Rebel Yell". My guitarist SWEARS that the obvious Square Lead melody in the middle is a guitar effect. But even before I played it with the band, I'd carefully listened to the isolated tracks, and there it is, clear as day, complete with portamento in all it's mono-synth glory. He even claims he read an article on how that tone was done. Thankfully, it gave way to us doing a cool harmonization.

 

Seriously, I hear him doubling keyboard parts ALL THE TIME, yet the moment I play something he THINKS is guitar, it's "You're stepping on ma parts!"

 

Age old battle.

[MathOfInsects]

*SIGH* I encountered this big time with "Rebel Yell". My guitarist SWEARS that the obvious Square Lead melody in the middle is a guitar effect. But even before I played it with the band, I'd carefully listened to the isolated tracks, and there it is, clear as day, complete with portamento in all it's mono-synth glory. He even claims he read an article on how that tone was done. Thankfully, it gave way to us doing a cool harmonization.

 

Seriously, I hear him doubling keyboard parts ALL THE TIME, yet the moment I play something he THINKS is guitar, it's "You're stepping on ma parts!"

 

Age old battle.

 

Guitarist: "Are you going to play that piano part?"

Me: "I am playing it."

Guitarist: "No, the main part, that riffy part."

Me: [Realizes he thinks the acoustic guitar is a piano] "......[um....ah, f*ck it] Yep, I'll grab that piano part."

 

[CowboyNQ]

Its both an annoyance and really fun to learn parts from isolated tracks, only to have band mates say that doesnt sound right (because they are used to not hearing it or they have accommodated to the way their previous keyboard guy did it). Then, play the isolated track and watch their jaws drop!

 

*SIGH* I encountered this big time with "Rebel Yell". My guitarist SWEARS that the obvious Square Lead melody in the middle is a guitar effect.

I hate to say this Eric but I believe your guitarist is correct - pretty sure Steve Stevens ran it through a guitar synth of some description. EDIT: Because I suffer from CRS it is possible that time has fogged my memory and Steve Stevens played it on a "synth synth", not a guitar synth. I did read somewhere once that he was the man responsible, of that I'm sure.

 

Nonetheless, far better tackled by a keys player live of course! In my band I play the first half of that lead by myself and the guitarist joins me for the second half. Sounds really cool.

[Kawai James]

You can hear a Wurly EP throughout in this isolated mix.

 

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8VaV6cEnPA

 

That's pretty tasty playing, I dig it.

 

Why were those funky keys buried so deep in the original mix?

 

Cheers,

James

x

[SamuelBLupowitz]

That is some of the filthiest Rhodes playing I've ever heard. Never knew it was in there. Love it!

[Legatoboy]

There's a band on Long Island call 'Funkin-A' ...

[timwat]

+1 on the Steve Stevens attribution - I remember when that came out, all the interviews Stevens gave said he played that lead on guitar synth. In addition, a lot of that era Billy Idol 'synth' work was Stevens on guitar or guitar synth.

 

Back OT, interesting tonight I'm in the house band and playing both Serpentine Fire and Jupiter in the playlist. Larry Dunn rulz!

 

 

[MAJUSCULE]

That isolated track is making me question a lot of things about my life. I've listened to it several times over the last few days. Ouch.

[BbAltered]

We played it at rehearsal last nite. I played very sparsely in the verse.

 

The guitar player never played the 16th note guitar ostinato that goes on during the verse, and played the EP part during the chorus. Sigh.

 

So now I will learn the guitar part to play for the verse.

 

Funny how these things sometimes sort themselves out.

 

 

[MAJUSCULE]

Damn. The vid got taken down. Was hoping to dig into it again tonight/tomorrow. Anyone know if that isolated audio is posted anywhere else?

[BbAltered]

We played it at rehearsal last nite. I played very sparsely in the verse.

 

The guitar player never played the 16th note guitar ostinato that goes on during the verse, and played the EP part during the chorus. Sigh.

 

So now I will learn the guitar part to play for the verse.

 

Funny how these things sometimes sort themselves out.

 

 

Well....as things turned out, when the Soul Band plays it, I cover the 16th note guitar ostinato, while the guitarist comps 7th and 9th chords. Even with discussing the different parts and multiple group listens to the original recording, the guitarist never played the guitar part during the verse. So now I play it (or I did when the band was playing - guess I don't have to worry about THAT today). As you say: it all sorted itself out.

 

Like Dan Savage says about sex partners, I think a good musician is 1) good (practiced and able); 2) giving (considerate and not selfish); and 3) game (willing to go outside the comfort zone to try stuff). That's my $.02.