Gemini news from GSi

[ChazKeys]

My only gripe with it is no aftertouch. But the keybed itself feels fantastic. It should pair well with the Gemini (which I have as well - the add-in module in a DMC-122). Youll need to switch the VR-700 between the organ mode with the high trigger point and the other voices with velocity switching, but you should be able to use the preset buttons for that.

Bought it! Sounds like a good match for the Gemini. I very rarely use AT so no worries. Presumably if I split the organ with an ensemble sound the VR will transmit high trig from the organ side and deeper trig with velocity from the ensemble side. So lower split to Gemini VB3 on CH1 and upper split to say Gemini EP on CH4. Does that sound correct?

[Mighty Ferguson]

I believe that should work. Youll want to pay attention to the MIDI channels for the organ part and the ensemble part matching the two DSPs in the Gemini.

[ElmerJFudd]

^^^

Figured this out after while building a MainStage set list.

[Nils_O]

Which is the better choice

DMC-122 Gemini or Hammond skx?

Hammond has pipe organ and better look

DMC Gemini has mod wheels and aftertouch

So question is hammond and other sounds?

 

[Doerfler]

Which is the better choice

 

better is subjective, Nils. Only you can decide what is best for you.

[AnotherScott]

Hammond has pipe organ and better look

DMC Gemini has mod wheels and aftertouch

Gemini also has pipe organ.

[DaveMcM]

Which is the better choice

DMC-122 Gemini or Hammond skx?

Hammond has pipe organ and better look

DMC Gemini has mod wheels and aftertouch

So question is hammond and other sounds?

 

To see what is available for pipe organ, go to www.gsidsp.com which will bring up the Gemini Editor. This will be a demo version if no Gemini is connected. Click on the SELECT SOUND tab at the bottom, then select the Pipe Organ Engine, and finally click on the EDIT ENGINE tab at the bottom. You will now see the available Stops and Couplers that can be turned on/off. Note that all of these parameters have associated CC#s which can be controlled via panel buttons or drawbars for live control or you could of course create multiple presets with various settings. Your choice.

[Delaware Dave]

I installed the update last weekend but didn't audition it until today. Noted audible differences:

 

1) The top octave shrillness is gone! FINALLY, someone got it right. It sounds fatter on the top end

 

2) the top two octaves' loudness has been normalized. Always had to pull back the expression pedal in that area. Now when playing in the middle of the keyboard and moving up to the top the loudness is better balanced

 

3) The percussion is woodier/chunkier in the lower octaves and overall seems to be not only more distinguished but also colored somewhat differently for the better.

 

4) The leslie overall is improved (more sense of circular motion). However between A4 and A5 there is a 'wha wha wha' sound with the leslie on fast speed that actually will dominate the 1' drawbar. As you move up the keyboard the 'wha wha wha' mellows out but is louder in this area than any other area of the keyboard. If this could be fixed then I would have no issues with the rest of the leslie sound. The leslie also has slightly more distortion than the previous version possibly due to the new tube saturation feature that was added although I'm not certain of the source. I backed off the distortion a little bit and it returned to the pre-upgrade sound. The distortion is more tubier sounding than before (good news).

 

5) C/V I hear nothing different with it. If changes were made I'm not sure what they would be.

 

6) Complex cross talk on upper octave. Maybe it's me but I cannot really hear this difference. If it is there then it is so subtle that you'd really have to intensely listen to hear it. I'm 100% positive that in a band setting it will get completely lost. Interesting to note that on my '57 B3 I also do not hear this phenomena.

 

7) New Mellotron samples, actually did not demo them yet so I cannot render a review. Honestly, I was hoping to get the upgraded acoustic piano that was put in the Seven. I hope that is still on the list as a future upgrade.

[DaveMcM]

I installed the update last weekend but didn't audition it until today. Noted audible differences:

 

1) The top octave shrillness is gone! FINALLY, someone got it right. It sounds fatter on the top end

 

2) the top two octaves' loudness have been normalized. Always had to pull back the expression pedal in that area. Now when playing in the middle of the keyboard and moving up to the top the loudness is better balanced

 

3) The percussion is woodier/chunkier in the lower octaves and overall seems to be not only more distinguished but also colored somewhat differently for the better.

 

4) The leslie overall is improved (more sense of circular motion). However between A4 and A5 there is a 'wha wha wha' sound that actually will dominate the 1' drawbar. As you move up the keyboard the 'wha wha wha' mellows out but is louder in this area than any other area of the keyboard. If this could be fixed then I would have no issues with the rest of the leslie sound.

 

5) C/V I hear nothing different with it. If changes were made I'm not sure what they would be.

 

6) Complex cross talk on upper octave. Maybe it's me but I cannot really hear this difference. If it is there then it is so subtle that you'd really have to intensely listen to hear it. I'm 100% positive that in a band setting it will get completely lost. Interesting to note that on my '57 B3 I also do not hear this phenomena.

 

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for the mini-review. I'm hoping to get the update installed in the next few days. It sounds like I will be even happier with the Gemini.

[mobi]

New Grand Piano sample sets coming for Crumar Seven and GSi Gemini...

[ElmerJFudd]

New Grand Piano sample sets coming for Crumar Seven and GSi Gemini...

 

Huge difference in the usefulness and viability of their products as complete solutions. Both the Gemini and Seven needed this badly. imho

Now Im interested.

 

[Moonglow]

Considerable improvement. I hope the piano sounds continue to maintain the same trajectory in quality we have seen from the organs over the years.

[Delaware Dave]

All we need now is a single manual controller with drawbars, 73/76 semi-weighted keys and the Gemini built in and........ a saxophone (missing from the Gemini soundset). Had a gig last night and last weekend. Last nights show was sound coming off the stage (i.e. no FOH send). Last weekend was to FOH. The organ and EP's are the shit. I'm hardly using the acoustic piano. This is the best sounding non-analog rig I've ever owned...

[ElmerJFudd]

The focus on iconic key yboard instruments is ok with me - each expansion they do has some cherry picked stuff. Heres more on the 4 piano presets and the Melotron sample set.

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=page&p=TBLEXP02

 

 

[bjosko]

The pianos in TBLEX02 are an older release.

[mobi]

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=page&p=TBLEXP02

 

 

That's not the new sample set

 

They've released so far 3 expansions TBLEXP01-03

[AnotherScott]

Considerable improvement. I hope the piano sounds continue to maintain the same trajectory in quality we have seen from the organs over the years.

Though it looks like he's using samples for the new piano, not modeling, so it's a pretty different ball of wax. I suspect that, if nothing else, the actual space available for the samples will be a constraint. Still, this sounds like a nicely usable piano.

 

All we need now is a single manual controller with drawbars, 73/76 semi-weighted keys and the Gemini built in and........ a saxophone (missing from the Gemini soundset).

You're currently driving it from your PC3?

 

I guess until/unless your dream board comes out, the question would be how to best create one, i.e. what 73+ key controller to pair with a Gemini. Possibilities in order of price, arbitrarily up to $2k:

 

- Numa Compact 2X: Should work pretty well, if you don't mind the scroll knob for patch selection. (Maybe add some other device for patch selection?)

 

- Numa Organ 2: Strong organ ergonomics, but you'd need some other device to manage patch selection. No sax.

 

- Roland VR730: with a MIDI Solutions box to convert the drawbar sysex to CC? 16 patches can be recalled with buttons (banks of 4), then back to the scroll wheel (or another device).

 

- Kurzweil Artis 7: should work well (and OB Dave has replacement caps to make the sliders look like drawbars)

 

Also, Korg Krome 73, Roland FA07, and Yamaha MODX7 might work, they may have enough blank panel space that you could attach some controller to get your 9 sliders. (Maybe Roland Juno DS76 too, but its patch selection for external devices is weird and limited.)

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=page&p=TBLEXP02

 

 

That's not the new sample set

 

They've released so far 3 expansions TBLEXP01-03

 

Good to know! I havent been paying attention until I caught that last Facebook video.

[Synthaholic]

The focus on iconic key yboard instruments is ok with me - each expansion they do has some cherry picked stuff. Heres more on the 4 piano presets and the Melotron sample set.

https://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=page&p=TBLEXP02

 

 

A lot of annoying thunk on that mono piano.

[Delaware Dave]

No worries, a new piano is on its way and from the sample i heard the annoying thunk is gone. I guess modeling just didn't work out liked he hoped.

[ChazKeys]

After using the Gemini for about an hour I'm hearing a noise when I press the sustain pedal when playing the organ engine. You won't notice it if you just play organ on the Gemini as you probably don't use sustain, but if you play both engines at once say EP and Organ then both engines could be receiving Sustain. You obviously won't hear it of you keyboard isn't transmitting sustain to the organ channel on the Gemini.

 

Anyone else got this problem? I've only noticed it since using switching to the VR700 which transmits sustain messages on all active channels. With the Nord E5D I can disable sustain messages on the organ channel. I think this issue might have been present on 1.2 but can't be sure. I've tried different sustain pedals but pedals like the DP-10 are worse because they have a pot inside them not a switch and so make more noise.

 

Audio

Audio graphic

MIDI graphic

 

Setup - switch on. Make sure you are sending to sustain to the organ channel. Check there is no sustain noise then check it again about an hour later. It doesn't seem to make any difference if you play the Gemini or just let it idle.

 

Set both DSPs to organ

Key Click at max all other keyclick settings at default i.e. 64

Check nothing is mapped to CC#64

666600000 no percussion - not that the registration etc. makes any difference

 

The first chord you hear KeyClick is at max, second one KeyClick is zero. Note the noise is much quieter with Keyclick at 0 which is curious. If I cycle power on the Gemini the noise disappears, but will come back an hour later. If I filter Sustain messages going to the Gemini the noise disappears. Noise is present on both SPDIF and Analog outs. It sounds similar to the pedal noise/clonk you get with the EPs

 

It's a bit irritating that the VR700 doesn't give you the option to choose which parts respond to sustain like you can with the expression pedal. There again maybe it's an issue with my Gemini's firmware.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Send to GSi. Theyll check it out for sure.

[Delaware Dave]

After using the Gemini for about an hour I'm hearing a noise when I press the sustain pedal when playing the organ engine. You won't notice it if you just play organ on the Gemini as you probably don't use sustain, but if you play both engines at once say EP and Organ then both engines could be receiving Sustain. You obviously won't hear it of you keyboard isn't transmitting sustain to the organ channel on the Gemini.

 

Anyone else got this problem? I've only noticed it since using switching to the VR700 which transmits sustain messages on all active channels. With the Nord E5D I can disable sustain messages on the organ channel. I think this issue might have been present on 1.2 but can't be sure. I've tried different sustain pedals but pedals like the DP-10 are worse because they have a pot inside them not a switch and so make more noise.

 

Audio

Audio graphic

MIDI graphic

 

Setup - switch on. Make sure you are sending to sustain to the organ channel. Check there is no sustain noise then check it again about an hour later. It doesn't seem to make any difference if you play the Gemini or just let it idle.

 

Set both DSPs to organ

Key Click at max all other keyclick settings at default i.e. 64

Check nothing is mapped to CC#64

666600000 no percussion - not that the registration etc. makes any difference

 

The first chord you hear KeyClick is at max, second one KeyClick is zero. Note the noise is much quieter with Keyclick at 0 which is curious. If I cycle power on the Gemini the noise disappears, but will come back an hour later. If I filter Sustain messages going to the Gemini the noise disappears. Noise is present on both SPDIF and Analog outs. It sounds similar to the pedal noise/clonk you get with the EPs

 

It's a bit irritating that the VR700 doesn't give you the option to choose which parts respond to sustain like you can with the expression pedal. There again maybe it's an issue with my Gemini's firmware.

 

I noticed that with both the EP's and the acoustic piano if you press and release the pedal associated with CC#64 you get a damper noise; I believe Guido is modeling some sort of noise associated with the damper pedal. Perhaps that noise is also being transmitted to the organ since his allowance of CC#64 was an afterthought (if you recall he didn't want to allow CC64 to an organ because it wasn't authentic to a hammond). So perhaps he just assigned all the characteristics of the modeled sustain pedal to the organ and never removed the noise modeling effect when it is being used with the organ channels. Another issue he'd have to deal with is if you assigned channels 1,2,3 to the organ and 4 to non-organ, then the DSP assigned to 1,2,3 is used for a non-organ sound; he'd have to figure out when a non-organ sound is being used on the DSP assigned to the 3 consecutive channels to allow the noise but when organ is used on that DSP not to use the modeled noise.

 

In a gig I did a couple of weeks ago I could hear a click come through my monitor every time I engaged the sustain and played acoustic/electric pianos. It was fairly loud and very annoying. This past weekend no noise; so I attributed the click noise to the electrical setup of the 1st club. Where it happened the club puts a ground lift adapter on the AC line (three prong to two prong) clonk in an effort to reduce buzz/hum. It is the only club that will buzz/hum without the adapter.

[Stokely]

New Grand Piano sample sets coming for Crumar Seven and GSi Gemini...

 

Huge difference in the usefulness and viability of their products as complete solutions. Both the Gemini and Seven needed this badly. imho

Now Im interested.

 

Not going to a facebook vid, did they mention any plans of putting this into the mojo 61? That might make it a contender again, right now I'm leaning electro and the pianos are a big reason.

[ABECK]

Not going to a facebook vid, did they mention any plans of putting this into the mojo 61? That might make it a contender again, right now I'm leaning electro and the pianos are a big reason.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

[ChazKeys]

After using the Gemini for about an hour I'm hearing a noise when I press the sustain pedal when playing the organ engine. You won't notice it if you just play organ on the Gemini as you probably don't use sustain, but if you play both engines at once say EP and Organ then both engines could be receiving Sustain. You obviously won't hear it of you keyboard isn't transmitting sustain to the organ channel on the Gemini.

 

Anyone else got this problem? I've only noticed it since using switching to the VR700 which transmits sustain messages on all active channels. With the Nord E5D I can disable sustain messages on the organ channel. I think this issue might have been present on 1.2 but can't be sure. I've tried different sustain pedals but pedals like the DP-10 are worse because they have a pot inside them not a switch and so make more noise.

 

Audio

Audio graphic

MIDI graphic

 

Setup - switch on. Make sure you are sending to sustain to the organ channel. Check there is no sustain noise then check it again about an hour later. It doesn't seem to make any difference if you play the Gemini or just let it idle.

 

Set both DSPs to organ

Key Click at max all other keyclick settings at default i.e. 64

Check nothing is mapped to CC#64

666600000 no percussion - not that the registration etc. makes any difference

 

The first chord you hear KeyClick is at max, second one KeyClick is zero. Note the noise is much quieter with Keyclick at 0 which is curious. If I cycle power on the Gemini the noise disappears, but will come back an hour later. If I filter Sustain messages going to the Gemini the noise disappears. Noise is present on both SPDIF and Analog outs. It sounds similar to the pedal noise/clonk you get with the EPs

 

It's a bit irritating that the VR700 doesn't give you the option to choose which parts respond to sustain like you can with the expression pedal. There again maybe it's an issue with my Gemini's firmware.

 

I noticed that with both the EP's and the acoustic piano if you press and release the pedal associated with CC#64 you get a damper noise; I believe Guido is modeling some sort of noise associated with the damper pedal. Perhaps that noise is also being transmitted to the organ since his allowance of CC#64 was an afterthought (if you recall he didn't want to allow CC64 to an organ because it wasn't authentic to a hammond). So perhaps he just assigned all the characteristics of the modeled sustain pedal to the organ and never removed the noise modeling effect when it is being used with the organ channels. Another issue he'd have to deal with is if you assigned channels 1,2,3 to the organ and 4 to non-organ, then the DSP assigned to 1,2,3 is used for a non-organ sound; he'd have to figure out when a non-organ sound is being used on the DSP assigned to the 3 consecutive channels to allow the noise but when organ is used on that DSP not to use the modeled noise.

 

In a gig I did a couple of weeks ago I could hear a click come through my monitor every time I engaged the sustain and played acoustic/electric pianos. It was fairly loud and very annoying. This past weekend no noise; so I attributed the click noise to the electrical setup of the 1st club. Where it happened the club puts a ground lift adapter on the AC line (three prong to two prong) clonk in an effort to reduce buzz/hum. It is the only club that will buzz/hum without the adapter.

 

Yes I also thought it might have something to do with it using CC64 on the organ model - but what's weird is that it takes about an hour before the noise appears- and it's affected by KeyClick. I'd prefer it if the organ model ignored sustain. But I'm going to check it now with my Nord as I have only really noticed it since using the VR700 - and that does send out a lot of SysEx which might be upsetting the Gemini.

[ABECK]

I noticed the same thing using the DMC122 with Gemini. Not on all setups, though. I'll have to go back and see what config this was occurring on.

[ChazKeys]

New Grand Piano sample sets coming for Crumar Seven and GSi Gemini...

 

Huge difference in the usefulness and viability of their products as complete solutions. Both the Gemini and Seven needed this badly. imho

Now Im interested.

 

Not going to a facebook vid, did they mention any plans of putting this into the mojo 61? That might make it a contender again, right now I'm leaning electro and the pianos are a big reason.

 

Yes I'm still using the Electro with a Gemini because of the acoustic pianos. The last piano release was OK but still a little way behind the Nord. So really looking forward to getting the new piano sounds.

[Delaware Dave]

I'd prefer it if the organ model ignored sustain.

You can turn it off in the menu for the organ. I actually had to turn it on as I believe it defaults off for organ.

[ChazKeys]

I'd prefer it if the organ model ignored sustain.

You can turn it off in the menu for the organ. I actually had to turn it on as I believe it defaults off for organ.

 

I can't see an option for turning sustain on/off in the organ settings in the Gemini editor. Am I missing something?

 

I tested it with my Nord and the noise appears - again it's not straight away usually after about an hour. Thought it might be SysEx from the VR700 but nope. Very strange problem but I can filter it.