Gemini news from GSi

[ballatman]

Good news for you GEMINI owners!

New firmware update v.1.3 with improved VB3 and Rotary speaker and new features.

And a new wavetable expansion!.

[Sven Golly]

Given the number of inquiries about this exact thing on the various Mojo/Mojo61 threads around here, Im stunned that none of the usual suspects has chimed in here yet.

 

[JohnDoe]

+1!

[jeffincltnc]

Now if they could just put it into a DSP based Mojo with a full set of draw bars....

[Al Coda]

Now if they could just put it into a DSP based Mojo with a full set of draw bars....

 

^^^^^

THIS !

 

A.C.

[KorgyPorky]

Now if they could just put it into a DSP based Mojo with a full set of draw bars....

 

^^^^^

THIS !

 

A.C.

 

Thats where GSI DMC-122 is meant for...

 

Personally i would have loved if they added the virtual grand engine from Seven..

[bjosko]

Well, at least the Organ should now be up on par with the Mojo, where the latest update made it wonderful.

 

May I ask which CC number your folks are using for Leslie slow/fast , esp on the DMC setup?

I remember I had some troubles getting my halfmoon switch working when I first got the DMC some years ago, and fiddling around with some settings.

Fast forward to this summer, where I got trouble with the halfmoon switch, suddenly changed back from fast to slow.

Changed the cable, measured the switch, checked the midi signals, could not find anything wrong.

Got a new switch and cable. Same story, until I discovered that I had the switch set up on CC1, same as the mod wheel that had been enabled for use on some presets on upper manual. I am not sure if it are possible to change the CC on the switch, but I guess so from the DMC editor.

 

[Delaware Dave]

Gemini into 76 key single manual controller w/ dual drawbars and latest acoustic piano = Electro killer.

[Delaware Dave]

Now if they could just put it into a DSP based Mojo with a full set of draw bars....

Gemini into 76 key single manual controller w/ dual drawbars and latest acoustic piano = Electro killer or...

 

"Seven" with Gemini and drawbars and semi-weighted keybed. Either one works for me.

[AnotherScott]

Now if they could just put it into a DSP based Mojo with a full set of draw bars....

 

^^^^^

THIS !

 

A.C.

 

Thats where GSI DMC-122 is meant for...

Yup. It gives you exactly that plus more MIDI functionality, and the other things you're probably want when controlling all those other sounds... pitch and mod wheels, aftertouch. What you lose is the multipin connector for a real Leslie, the organ aesthetics, and (probably of greatest interest) the improved organ action (though it's still probably at least as good as anything you get from anyone else, except probably the Numa Organ 2). I'm a little surprised they haven't updated the DMC action as they did the original Mojo... I'm guessing maybe whatever they did to modify the action doesn't work with the aftertouch strip. And if it's one or the other, for something designed as a multi-function do-it-all board, I'd say they made the right choice.

 

Personally i would have loved if they added the virtual grand engine from Seven..

And again, the GSI with its additional MIDI functionality can solve that... plug in your iPhone/iPad and there's your grand piano. I understand some people's resistance to moving away from strictly dedicated hardware, but when you're using an Phone/iPad for just one sound, it's super simple; if you already own the iPhone/iPad, it's super cheap; and in the case of the GSI, there's plenty of free panel space, so the ergonomics are good too. The only thing missing is that the Gemini module does not include an audio in that passes through to the out, so you will need either a mixer or a multi-channel amp/speaker. Otherwise, it's a pretty ideal all-in-one dual keyboard rig, if you could live with a 61-key non hammer piano board. Except for me, I'd rather travel with two lighter boards than a single 40 lb board.

 

Which brings me back to Al Coda and jeffinpghpa's request... I suspect they may be looking for a single manual implementation... Closest thing to that (albeit with only a single set of drawbar controllers) might be to sit a Gemini desktop module on top of a Casio XW-P1, total price $1,649 (+ probably $49 to add an expression pedal input to the Gemini via an Audiofront adapter, since the XW-P1 does not have an expression pedal jack). I think the Casio panel is big enough to hold the Gemini. The drawback is that you have 9 small sliders instead of full-size drawbars. If you want the latter, I think you'd have to go up to the Hammond XK-1C, but you'd lose the pitch and mod wheels (and it's quite a bit pricier). A good thing about both the Casio and the Hammond is that they are multi-zone MIDI controllers, so you can call up Gemini presets from the front panels of those boards.

 

Interesting comparison:

Mojo 61 = $1499, 24 lbs

XWp1+Gemini+Pedal adapter = $1698, about 15 lbs

 

Mojo gives you the better organ ergonomics.

Casio/Gemini combo gives you the Mojo sounds plus all the other Gemini sounds, plus the Casio sounds (notably the nice mono solo synth stuff and hexlayers). Also adds the pitch and mod wheels, better patch recall, and better ability to add more sounds (i.e. via iPhone/iPad).

 

[Polychrest]

Gemini into 76 key single manual controller w/ dual drawbars and latest acoustic piano = Electro killer.

Im marching in this parade too.

[Al Coda]

Now if they could just put it into a DSP based Mojo with a full set of draw bars....

 

^^^^^

THIS !

 

A.C.

 

Thats where GSI DMC-122 is meant for...

 

Nope,- I´d be interested in a single manual MOJO w/ a full set of drawbars (at least 1 set for "lower" and 1 for "upper" and 2 pedal-drawbars) and all running on 2 DSPs like Gemini.

A real full set of drawbars like on a vintage Hammond console would be welcome too, but isn´t essential for my needs.

The look of the GSI DMC-122 is unfortunately not my taste and I´d prefer to get a more powerfull (that MOJO61) and more compact solution w/ the freedom to use a lower manual on demand.

I´d also appreciate some more preset memory locations for "lower" and "upper".

 

A.C.

[ChazKeys]

This is how I integrate the Gemini

 

Option 1 - when I need Organ + Weighted Keyboard/Piano

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iwmz7gnqjn5dajp/IMG_2527.jpg?dl=0

 

Option 2 - if I want a 2 manual organ swap the RD-64 for a Doepfer D3M or Nord Electro 61 (bit expensive)

 

I'm looking for a S/H one - though Thomann have them in stock for around 400. They also do the reverse key model.

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/doepfer_d3m_orgelkeyboard_schwarz.htm

 

The Novation SL61 is very cheap S/H and also has the benefit of a decent Fatar keyboard - not to different in feel from the spinet keyboard. Very light and good for smears. Also has AT. Best thing about the SL is the LCD screen showing your settings.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9y9y0pxcbz2bjl/IMG_2529.jpg?dl=0

 

 

With D9U for Upper drawbars I can use the sliders for the Lower set.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxgbo0yje4tl1xd/IMG_2528.jpg?dl=0

 

I also use a row of buttons to store all the different organ models - VB3, MT56 etc. Then the drum pads store my favourite programs and the last 2 pads are used for Bank Up and Prog Up.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgd3gjv8zxmafp/IMG_2530.jpg?dl=0

 

 

 

 

[ChazKeys]

As for the update the rotary sim has been tamed and I really like the separation you can hear between the horn and the rotor. Only tried it through my studio speakers so will have to see what its like live - but it sounds better to me, less exaggerated. I also like being able to adjust the sim using Hz and seconds values - so you can match it up to standard Leslie speeds and spin up/down times, Mellotron expansion is excellent if you need those sounds. Its great that they have not been treated or looped - hold a chord and wait for the tape to run out! Lovely!

 

Anyone else updated yet?

[ap297]

If it's being contemplated, 88 key would be fabulous. 76 could work. But please no 73....

[Delaware Dave]

The reason for 73 or 76 keys (for me) is to get a semi-weighted keyboard where you can use it to play organ and piano. 88 keys will undoubtedly come with a piano action making the organ experience horrid and forcing a 2nd keyboard to be used.

[AnotherScott]

88 keys will undoubtedly come with a piano action

Hammond SK1-88 and Kronos LS are non-hammer-action 88s. Also, the old Roland RS9. So it can be done!

[ElmerJFudd]

Recently did some gigs with my VR-700 only and MainStage.

The action is excellent, and 76 keys is great for splits. I wish Roland, Korg, etc. would consider using this quality of action on some of their future boards. I mean, hell a Yamaha MODX7 is 16.3lbs. The PX-5S is 26lbs. Id easily carry a 76k semi weight that came in around 20lbs if it felt great to play.

 

 

[The_Star_Guy]

The reason for 73 or 76 keys (for me) is to get a semi-weighted keyboard where you can use it to play organ and piano. 88 keys will undoubtedly come with a piano action making the organ experience horrid and forcing a 2nd keyboard to be used.

 

 

The semi-weighted action of my Numa Compact 2x plays great for both Piano and Organ voices as well, and has both drawbars and aftertouch as a bonus. A Gemini box would be an Ideal expansion box for it. It also has dual MIDI zones making splits and layers easy.

[ChazKeys]

Recently did some gigs with my VR-700 only and MainStage.

The action is excellent, and 76 keys is great for splits. I wish Roland, Korg, etc. would consider using this quality of action on some of their future boards. I mean, hell a Yamaha MODX7 is 16.3lbs. The PX-5S is 26lbs. Id easily carry a 76k semi weight that came in around 20lbs if it felt great to play.

 

The VR 700s come up on eBay from time to time and Id be interested in using this as a controller for the Gemini but according to the MIDI implementation it only receives drawbar CCs. Unless that changed with later firmware. Also does the keyboard transmit hot or high triggering. The Nords dont transmit the high trig note on over MIDI.

[ElmerJFudd]

That is correct. I understand the MIDI solutions translator box can convert to CC. But only one forum member has suggested this to me. I should try it out at some point. Albright the GSi drawbar kit looks nice for synths and controllers that lack faders.

[AnotherScott]

Recently did some gigs with my VR-700 only and MainStage.

The action is excellent, and 76 keys is great for splits. I wish Roland, Korg, etc. would consider using this quality of action on some of their future boards. I mean, hell a Yamaha MODX7 is 16.3lbs. The PX-5S is 26lbs. Id easily carry a 76k semi weight that came in around 20lbs if it felt great to play.

It's an open question as to whether that particular Roland action is, itself, light enough to exist in a ~20 lb board. But I think the best feeling 7x board of about that weight that I've played is the Jupiter 50. So maybe you look for one of those, and use it largely as a MIDI controller? I don't think it's as good as the VR700, but it's good, and probably as close as anything has gotten at that weight.

 

The semi-weighted action of my Numa Compact 2x

Ah yes, more non-hammer 88s! Nice feeling board, esp, for the weight and price. A little stiffer toward the rear of the keys than I'd like. Not as bad as the low end Korgs and Rolands, but not as good as a number of other boards, either.

 

And you're right, that should be a nice low-cost low-weight 9-slider controller for a Gemini. Compared to the XW-P1, it's $200 more and doesn't give you a convenient place to put the Gemini, it's a 2-zone controller instead of 4, and it lacks a fully editable synth section along with quick button access to presets. But it's got 88 keys, and aftertouch, and it includes an expression pedal jack, and it has a better built-in piano sound.

 

Since the Gemini does accept USB peripherals, though, I think it would work with something like (the original 9-slider) Korg NanoKontrol for drawbar control. If so, then choosing a controller that has 9 sliders may be less imperative.

 

The VR 700s come up on eBay from time to time and Id be interested in using this as a controller for the Gemini but according to the MIDI implementation it only receives drawbar CCs.

I believe the problem is about what it sends (not what it receives)... sysex rather than CCs. As Elmer says, probably addressable with a MIDI Solutions box.

[ElmerJFudd]

Forum Member Mighty Ferguson turned me on to the MIDI solutions box. Check with him how well it works with his VR700.

 

I believe that or similar Roland action could be put in a lighter product. Remember the VR700 has an aluminum case, internal power supply, balanced XLR outs, a large panel/button screenless UI.

[AnotherScott]

I believe that or similar Roland action could be put in a lighter product.

But we don't know without further information. Something that could provide clues would be to open up the FA-07, VR-730, and VR-700, and see how much each of their actions weigh when removed from their chassis, which would let you know the minimum of how much weight (if any) would be added by substituting the VR700 action for one of the others. (It may add more than the minimum, if the VR700 action requires a bigger chassis for more rear clearance, or more support structure for a heavier weight.)

[ChazKeys]

This is going slightly off topic but there is a VR700 on eBay UK at the moment. According to the manual the VR-700 does not transmit CCs from the drawbars but that's not a problem as I have the Crumar D9U. What I am interested in is what Roland call "Quick Firing" which on the Nord is called Organ B3 Trig in the system menu. However, the Nord doesn't send the High trig out over MIDI. Bit of a pain when playing the Gemini - of course it does send Drawbar CCs - Aagghh!

 

Does anyone know if the Quick Firing works on MIDI OUT with the VR700. That's the deal breaker for me with the Gemini module at the mo. I really want to play it with a waterfall keyboard and have the high trig/quick fire feature.

 

Any ideas anybody?

 

[Mighty Ferguson]

The VR-700 does transmit the high trigger point over MIDI. And yes, as mentioned above, I did use a MIDI Solutions box to translate the drawbar movements. I was translating from Sysex to Sysex, but the MIDI Solutions box will translate the VR-700 movements to CC as well.

[ChazKeys]

The VR-700 does transmit the high trigger point over MIDI. And yes, as mentioned above, I did use a MIDI Solutions box to translate the drawbar movements. I was translating from Sysex to Sysex, but the MIDI Solutions box will translate the VR-700 movements to CC as well.

 

Thanks for the info - I just need the Hi Trig point and D9U will do the drawbars. Seriously looking at this keyboard for the Gemini.

 

Cheers

 

[Mighty Ferguson]

My only gripe with it is no aftertouch. But the keybed itself feels fantastic. It should pair well with the Gemini (which I have as well - the add-in module in a DMC-122). Youll need to switch the VR-700 between the organ mode with the high trigger point and the other voices with velocity switching, but you should be able to use the preset buttons for that.

[AnotherScott]

You could also look at the earlie VR-760, which had aftertouch. I don't know how its MIDI functionality compares, though.

[Stokely]

I also love(d) the keys on my VR700. That's the one hesitation I have over getting an electro...it's going to be harder to get used to the stiffer key action.

 

Pretty sure the older vr760 had similar midi (lack of) functionality as the vr700...that was very irritating that the drawbars wouldn't send cc info, ESPECIALLY since I think the VK8 did send it, and that's a very similar engine if not the same. Definitely check the manuals though.