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High Quality Keyboard Amp


sMatt

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Count me in on QSC K8s at home. Sooooooooo much better than the Roland KC which got the boot. If cost is an issue, the Yamaha DBR10s are pretty decent. We use them as floor monitors at my church gig.

 

Yep, the K8s (and DBR10s) develop a lot of bass and I usually have to dial down the low end.

 

-- pj

 

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... sitting in back of me and to each side, my little K8s kill. ... I have never wanted for more bass. I roll off bass even when I do LHB!
This has been my experience with my K8's. Too much bass ... and too loud. If it's a big venue/concert/festival, everything's going to FOH anyway and the K8's become my monitors.

Right. I sometimes do need them to be on the loud side if I'm doing a more electrified gig in a place with no PA, and they deliver in spades. I have rarely pushed them into limiting though, and those were gigs I did not enjoy doing at all.

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An analogy of General Sherman's quote:

 

"The only good Indian is a DEAD Indian"

 

"The only good keyboard amp is NO keyboard amp"

 

Nuff said. :deadhorse:

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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These days, no amp nor speakers except at gigs where we don't run sound. I did play through a qsc k10.2 at band practice (normally they are our mains when we don't use our new line array thingie) and wow did that sound nice. Even for piano, which is usually an amp-killer.

 

Once in a while I do miss my old Peavey KB-300. 15" speaker with a horn. Playing my old Jx-10 synth through that was like "band?! what band? this is EVERYTHING I NEED!!!" Young and dumb, (and strong with a good back) of course I had no casters on the thing....

 

I always play with bass players, so from that perspective I stay out of their way anyway and wouldn't want a huge bass sound.

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Once in a while I do miss my old Peavey KB-300. 15" speaker with a horn.

I still own two in great working condition (w/ casters). I still gig with it from time to time. Reason? It is one of the few amps that has independent 3-band channel EQ'ing as well as independent channel reverb control (amount of reverb to be applied by channel). Since the mixer is built into the amp the setup time is radically reduced for me. I can then EQ the organ, non-organ sounds differently. When I just need a monitor for me to hear and not projecting the sound to cover the room it actually isn't a bad alternative. And for speed of setup/teardown it is much faster than breaking out the mixer, connecting the mixer to the PPA, breaking out the PPA, yada, yada, yada...... The big issue is 81 pounds, but once I get it on the ground I'm pushing it on casters. I'm certainly not recommending it as an alternative but when I have a quick in/out of a gig where speed is essential it is the fastest alternative

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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For those of you concerned about weight, The Motion Sound KP500 comes with casters. :)

My house has stairs. ;-)

 

independent 3-band channel EQ'ing as well as independent channel reverb control (amount of reverb to be applied by channel). Since the mixer is built into the amp the setup time is radically reduced for me. I can then EQ the organ, non-organ sounds differently. ..And for speed of setup/teardown it is much faster than breaking out the mixer, connecting the mixer to the PPA, breaking out the PPA, yada, yada, yada...... The big issue is 81 pounds

Get a small mixer with EQ and reverb, velcro it to a PPA with a suitably flat suface, combine the two power cords into a single extension cord, leave a right-angled signal cable in place between the mixer and amp, it's effectively the same thing, and it will weigh a whole lot less than 81 lbs.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Another +1 for the MotionSound KP500S

 

Lots of headroom. While I use it mostly for jazz gigs with vocalists now, it can put out some serious sound for those needing/wanting a big stage volume. I also had the KP200S. Not even a fair comparison. Fidelity is much better on the KP500S.

 

Best thing about it - one box w/mixer. I plug in a power cord, two cords for the Forte, and a cord for the vocalist's mic into channel two, and done. I do add a TC Helicon Mic Mechanic for the vocal channel which adds 45 seconds of setup time.

 

The nice thing too about the KP500S.. the wide dispersion due to the angling of the speakers puts sound all over the place, and you don't have that sweet spot stereo issue at all. The vocals sound pretty decent through it with the Mic Mechanic (not perfect, but pretty good). And again, because of the speaker angle, the vocalist is heard everywhere.

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Count me in on QSC K8s at home. Sooooooooo much better than the Roland KC which got the boot. If cost is an issue, the Yamaha DBR10s are pretty decent. We use them as floor monitors at my church gig.

 

Yep, the K8s (and DBR10s) develop a lot of bass and I usually have to dial down the low end.

 

-- pj

+1 for the DBR10's. I have one and love it. DBR10's are light (23 lbs.), loud (129 dB SPL max), and cheap relative to DXR's and QSC's but IMO sound comparable with a little adjustment of the EQ.

 

On a side note I tore a lateral meniscus in my left knee loading a Roland KC500 in 2001. After that I became a powered speaker devotee.

Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2)

 

 

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The thing about those amps was they never broke down and were loud. Those were the days. :cool:

If that's what you're looking for, you can still buy a Roland KC. I remember where someone posted that the things never die, unfortunately. ;-)

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The KB300 - was that the amp with a non-defeatable limiter (with no parameters to adjust)? I used that a few times, I think it was a staple of rehearsal studios back in the day. Loud, but after a certain level you would dig into your keyboard and the volume would decrease! :)
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I am still l loving my Spacestation. I play pretty aggressive jazz/funk and Latin stuff. Friday Ill be doing a concert in a 400 seat theater so Ill run a line out to the house for fill, but I wont need to be in the stage monitors for anyone. But usually its just me and my machines.

Doug Robinson

www.dougrobinson.com

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....like MT and Mark S, I say the Motion Sound KP500s.

No need for special placement like PA speakers. It has casters, Mary, so no groaning about weight.

Best solution out there except for AP, then you wanna go RCF TT08as like DF sez, you get what you pay for. Save your money and budget properly.

 

I have used EVERYTHING out there..... and had Rolands forced on me from backlines, so There ..... ;)

 

 

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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These days, no amp nor speakers except at gigs where we don't run sound. I did play through a qsc k10.2 at band practice (normally they are our mains when we don't use our new line array thingie) and wow did that sound nice. Even for piano, which is usually an amp-killer.

 

 

Speaking of Line array thingies.... any love for the Bose L1 Model II or similar line arrays?

 

With so many people subbing QSC's for traditional keyboard amps, does anyone sub the Bose or similar line arrays in the same way?

 

I wonder how the line arrays compare sound-wise with the better keyboard amps or QSC's?

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The options you're considering are all very different from one another.

 

The QSC (or similar 8" powered PA cabinets from Yamaha, EV, etc.) will attempt to provide something like FRFR (full range, flat response) over a usable frequency spectrum. This will be somewhat limited due to the 8" woofer (vs. their 10- and 12-inch cousins), but they will often have DSP enhancements to provide way more bass than you'll need in the setting you're describing. But they will all tend to be fairly directional in their throw. But they will have the highest fidelity of the options you're talking about.

 

The CPS spacestation provides a much wider sense of 'girth' than any horn-loaded PA speaker. The 90-degree firing 'width' speaker does a uniquely great job of simulating 'point source' radiating bloom, which does something very interesting with acoustic piano patches. When you sit down at a real piano, the sound in the room is unmistakably coming from a very large 'point source' object. This is one of the 'in the room' acoustic traits that even the very best PA speakers can't really simulate. One speaker type that does a good job with this is large planar speakers (think Martin Logan or Magnepan) - audiophile home speakers. And the CPS does this in a way no other speaker I've tried can. But the overall frequency response of the Spacestation leaves much to be desired. This is why some of us end up stacking a small PPA speaker on top and using both on acoustic piano-only gigs.

 

I've not heard the Roland KC 600, but have played through all the previous incarnations of those muppet-hide KC amps (100s, 300s and 500s). None of them were close to reasonably flat, several were simply awful, and the best of the worst (the largest 550 version) was too heavy to consider portable and still not in the same league as any of the PPA speakers you're talking about. But it did have a built in mixer and wheels.

 

Having gone through a lot of speaker options, I use two DXR8s on my electric gigs. I always mount them on short poles (the Yorkville shorty speaker poles) to elevate them to chest level - I've found these PPA speakers were designed and intended for elevated use and sound much better that way.

 

For piano-only gigs, I throw my CP4 into the Spacestation with one DXR stacked on top.

 

Were I only buying one amp, I'd suggest the 8" PPA before anything else, for your stated intended usage.

 

 

Thanks - very helpful.

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Say you just wanted to sit in a room by yourself and play your keyboard and get a wonderful sound, and have a small footprint -- not have the equipment take over everything.

 

The simplest approach to satisfy that is to have a digital piano with built in speakers -- or an actual acoustic.

 

In my basement studio I play my Roland RD800 through a pair of Gemini 8" studio monitors which are up on pedestals. They connect via a Mackie mixer. The Gemini's are not necessarily state of the art, but they sound good enough to me and were affordable.

 

 

And maybe a few people come over now and then to jam or rehearse.

 

When people come over to jam or rehearse, I take the Gemini's down and put the K8.2's up in their place. The QSC's work much better when there are other people in the room.

 

Live with a band on stage is a different world, as your amplification has to serve a different purpose. At home, you are the audience, so projection is less of an issue. On stage, others need to hear you, so the objective of your sound system is different. For me, the pair of K8.2's (like many others here) work very nicely to fill the room with sound that I find pleasing. I also use the short Yorkville speaker stands, as they sound much better elevated off the floor.

 

thanks.

 

question: why use the Gemini's at all if you have the QSC's? Why not just use the QCS's for playing alone or with others?

 

BTW, not really interested in a keyboard with built-in speakers for this application.

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Gotta shake my head (again) at the notion that the 8" woofer of the QSCK8 or 8.2, and probably the equivalent EVs & others, is "too small" for reproducing a full range of DP or synth sounds. Since this is about a subjective issue, and I don't know what type of music or how loud you need to be, I'm not gonna stand on a high horse and say anyone is wrong for feeling differently. But, if you are only presuming this because you see the number "8" and think that another inch or two is gonna make some magic happen that can't happen with the 8, I would say you're probably wrong to think that at least without doing an A/B comparison.

 

There are other characteristics of larger speakers, along with principles of physics and acoustics, that might steer someone to choose bigger. A cabinet with larger speakers will project farther, and is suited for bigger rooms. Have you seen a lot of bands in a large club or hotel ballroom with 8" cabinets as the mains? I haven't. But, sitting in back of me and to each side, my little K8s kill. I've had these for nine years, I've played quite a lot of LHB too, I play with drum loops with punchy low-end kick drums. I play sometimes with super-loud wedding bands. I have never wanted for more bass. I roll off bass even when I do LHB!

 

If you are playing in a situation that requires you to be really really loud well, first, my condolences and I hope you have adequate ear protection. But for sure, a larger woofer will get you a few more SPLs. The K's limiter will probably kick in sooner with the 8" woofer and you will lose some low end (I'm pretty sure that's what its DSP limiting does). But, in my experience, by that point your ears will be toast it'll be a gig you wish you hadn't taken. I don't do those anymore, not without ear protection and I usually can't wait for the night to be over.

 

I'm sorry to be harping on the Ks, they're just the speakers I know. I'm willing to bet that my general comments regarding the adequacy of an 8" woofer for most synth and DP sounds applies to any decent PPA out there. When I first got my Ks, they were not intended to replace my current speakers at the time Mackie SRM450s. I thought it would be nice to have lighter speakers for those gigs with tough shleps. By the end of the first set I played with them, I knew my Mackies were going in my garage probably never to be used again (they're on loan to a friend for his rehearsal space now).

 

 

Thanks.

 

The price difference difference between the different models is not all that great, and I was thinking the 10's or 12's would be good for more bass and a fuller sound.

 

But apparently you (and others) are saying the 8's are fine, and certainly the reduced weight is a plus.

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I appreciate that there's a lot of question about context. And I've got a few contexts. But to ask it in a slightly different way about one specific context:

 

 

Say you just wanted to sit in a room by yourself and play your keyboard and get a wonderful sound, and have a small footprint -- not have the equipment take over everything. And maybe a few people come over now and then to jam or rehearse.

 

What would work best for that?

 

Would you still put up some PPA's, or would you bust out something like a Motion Sound?

 

For that use case, I'd consider the small Bose L1 Compact. It would crumble in a live stage setting, but in a small room at moderate volume with minimal footprint and maximum AP clarity, hard to beat. You can find good used ones. Mono only, unless you buy two.

 

 

Thanks - there's a lot of great information in this thread and I'm absorbing it all and taking notes!

 

In replying to someone else I wondered about the Bose L1 Model II, and perhaps something like a Bose Line array (the compact or larger model) would be a good solution.

 

I guess my question would be, if it were between, say, the Motion Sound K500 and a Bose Line Array, which would sound better? Which would have better fidelity and just... sound and feel better to play through?

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Excuse me if this has already been discussed here. I tried to find someway to search the thread. Whats the difference between a keyboard amp and an acoustic guitar amp? Arent they both supposed to have a full frequency range?

 

Nope, apples and oranges. The piezo pickup in an acoustic guitar needs a lot of processing to make it sound more authentic. Acoustic guitar amps are designed for that role, are not designed for full frequency range, their frequency response would be far from flat, thus they would not sound very good with keyboards.

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But apparently you (and others) are saying the 8's are fine, and certainly the reduced weight is a plus.

I believe the 8s also have wider dispersion.

 

Excuse me if this has already been discussed here. I tried to find someway to search the thread. Whats the difference between a keyboard amp and an acoustic guitar amp? Arent they both supposed to have a full frequency range?

Acoustic guitar amp might be okay (better than an electric guitar amp, anyway), but they don't have (or require) full frequency range. The lowest note on an acoustic guitar is 82 Hz. A bass guitar (4 string) goes down to 41 Hz. A piano or synth can go lower still. Also, from what I've seen (admittedly without looking into all of what's available), they tend to be small amps, not designed to go very loud, or to keep up with a full electric band.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The lowest note on an acoustic guitar is 82 Hz. A bass guitar (4 string) goes down to 41 Hz. A piano or synth can go lower still.

 

People sometimes focus on those numbers too much, though.

 

If I take a recording with a prominent bass guitar part and run it through something that cuts all the low frequencies, I still hear the bass line. It sounds tinny, which is usually a bad sound, especially for a bass guitar, but I still hear it.

 

The frequency range seems to be more about timbre, really, not about which notes you can reproduce.

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If I take a recording with a prominent bass guitar part and run it through something that cuts all the low frequencies, I still hear the bass line. It sounds tinny, which is usually a bad sound, especially for a bass guitar, but I still hear it.

 

The frequency range seems to be more about timbre, really, not about which notes you can reproduce.

What's happening is you're hearing the upper harmonics of those low bass guitar notes, but you're not hearing the fundamental (or hearing it only at a greatly reduced volume).

 

My point is really, if you're playing, for example, left hand bass with a bass guitar sound, and you're playing with a live drummer, and you want it to sound like a real bass guitar, you're not likely to get that bottom out of an acoustic guitar amp. Even the low notes of a solo acoustic piano sound will probably sound pretty lame through an acoustic guitar amp, at least at any significant volume. Of course you'll hear the notes. You can hear all 88 keys of a piano out of any speaker. But if a speaker doesn't have good low end frequency response, you'll be missing so much of the fundamental that it will not sound very authentic.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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The price difference difference between the different models is not all that great, and I was thinking the 10's or 12's would be good for more bass and a fuller sound.

 

But apparently you (and others) are saying the 8's are fine, and certainly the reduced weight is a plus.

I had K10's and K8's. Note that the K8's have wider dispersion which can be desirable. K10's sound fuller but, of course, are heavier. As I mentioned earlier I have TT08As now. It's actually more expensive to buy K8's, sell K8's, buy K10's, sell K10's, buy TT08As then it is to just buy TT08As right off the bat (if you can afford them that is). This was my experience and, in retrospect, was more expensive than it needed to be.

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Even the low notes of a solo acoustic piano sound will probably sound pretty lame through an acoustic guitar amp, at least at any significant volume.

 

I can believe that!

 

Of course you'll hear the notes. You can hear all 88 keys of a piano out of any speaker. But if a speaker doesn't have good low end frequency response, you'll be missing so much of the fundamental that it will not sound very authentic.

 

I wonder if the frequencies of bass note fundamentals are really a good guide, though.... Does anybody publish frequency response charts for bass amps, for example, and do they typically give you much of the E string fundamental? I'd have guessed that that frequency just isn't an important part of the traditional bass guitar sound that our ears expect, and that 40hz is getting into the range where you feel it more than hear it anyway. (Which, OK, some people like.)

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I guess my question would be, if it were between, say, the Motion Sound K500 and a Bose Line Array, which would sound better? Which would have better fidelity and just... sound and feel better to play through?

 

Not even a close contest in my opinion. The K500 could get a lot louder and project much further, but you'd have to decide where to point it. The Bose L1 would sound cleaner, fuller and more enveloping, especially with APs -- but not nearly as powerful.

 

The only way I'd choose the K500 would be if I had to play a larger venue with a louder band and limited FOH support. And, for that role, it'd do great.

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The only way I'd choose the K500 would be if I had to play a larger venue with a louder band and limited FOH support. And, for that role, it'd do great.

 

That's why I have one, otherwise I would have gone the other route with any of the separate PA speakers mentioned. I play often in larger rooms competing with guitars...I keep it up a stand about 3 ft high, and sometimes with a 12" sub..

 

my gigs are changing though

 

 

 

 

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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