Amp, Pedal, or Sim?

[J. Dan]

This is keyboard related but I think this is the best place for this. It will be for solo synth that originally I was planning to run through a guitar amp and cabinet for screaming synth solos (progressive metal).

 

So let me back up. I currently use a Korg Kronos for my keyboard which has a ton of great sounds as well as a bunch of insert effects and master effects, but the amp simulations are not good at all. Besides the main L/R outputs, it has 4 auxiliary outputs as well as 2 inputs with very flexible routings through effects chains, etc. I first started experimenting running some lead sounds out one of the Aux outputs into a Line 6 Pod and it was an immediate improvement.

 

Fast Forward. In a couple weeks when I get my bonus check from work, I plan on buying a pretty bad ass analog lead synthesizer (lots of knobs to twist). My initial plan was to just run it through a guitar amp and make that part of "my sound" and just use that for any of those solos. I'm starting to rethink my strategy.

 

I'm thinking some of the Kronos sounds could benefit from the amp, maybe the lead synth might be best for some sounds without the amp, and even with the amp, I could use some of the Kronos chorus, EQ, delays, reverb, etc.....a pedal board built inside with flexible routing options and instant recall from the front panel set list.

 

So now I'm thinking Lead synth to INPUT 1 of the Kronos....from there it could go through some inline effects and either route to L/R out, or out Aux 1. For that matter, I could route an internal Kronos sound to Aux 1. Aux 1 then goes to......and here's my question......OD Pedal? Digital Amp Sim (like POD)? Tube preamp? Actual amp with powersoak/DI?

.then back into INPUT 2 on the Kronos so that it can get any additional effects and mixed in with the other sounds out the Main L/R outputs.

 

Keep in mind that MIDI control would be really nice. The Kronos has a setlist mode where you just touch a block on the screen with all the song names and it sets everything up internally as well as sending any necessary MIDI messages to external devices. So from that standpoint, something like the POD seems ideal, but I'm looking for something that sounds as close as possible to a real tube amp.

[hurricane hugo]

[font:Comic Sans MS]How are you monitoring all of this?[/font]

[J. Dan]

IEM's

[Caevan O’Shite]

I'm thinkin', you'd be best served by a good programmable digital-modeling/multi-effects unit, so that you could change the sound dramatically from program to program (do people still say "patch"?), custom tailored to each keyboard sound and use. You might get your MIDI, too. And it'd be consistent from venue to venue, day and night, not subject to tubes wearing out, mics used, etc.

 

Throw a few favorite pedals in front of said dmm/mfx unit, too, or even after. I found very good results that way, drastically increasing the quality of tone and realism of the digital-modeling of the amps!

[Lokair]

I am with Caevan on this, I am thinking Line 6 Helix would be perfect, they make a rack version. Or atleast something along those lines, amp sim , effect, cabinet simulation, Midi controllable.

I have messed on a very minor way using a Fender Mustang Floor into my mesa guitar rig with a Korg Triton at getting that Derek Sherinian type sound.

 

Lok

[Larryz]

During my keyboard days, I preferred playing through the PA as opposed to a guitar amp. They now have amps designed for keyboards but any amp with horns, tweeters, speakers, etc., can bring out those special strings, piano, organ, horns, etc., sounds and add something very real to the patches. I had two outs for stereo and mono, but I usually just used mono as others needed the space on the mixer channels. I could see using one or more of those 4 aux outs to different set ups for special effects with PODs etc.

 

I can tell that you know better than anyone else what you are seeking in the sound department and have the creative nature and experience to accomplish it. Good luck with the journey and have fun with it!

[J. Dan]

If I played through a guitar amp, it would be strictly the leads where I wanted that sound. All other sounds would run direct. But then that would require a direct channel and a mic'd cabinet, which is what got me thinking about using a pedal or sim and running it back into the Kronos and mixing it with the "clean" sounds.

[Larryz]

[CEB]

Kemper. Route Kronos synth patches in question out an assignable Aux to the Kemper. You can run the Kemper through a Cab or direct. I would try to email Christof Kemper and see if he can give you some thoughts. In addition to Kemper amps he is also the creator of Access Virus. The Kemper amp is amazing.

[Winston Psmith]

An OD pedal would be the minimalist approach, and might give you the sound you want; I'd start out by auditioning a Boss Blues Driver, if that's the direction you want to go. I found it had the most Amp-like responsiveness of any OD pedal I'd used. (Quick Edit: The Synth you're looking at doesn't have a Drive built-in? Both of my Analogs do.)

 

However, given that you're looking to add this to a MIDI rig, put me down for a Multi-FX w/Amp modeling. All of the Boss GT-series (the group with which I'm most familiar) have MIDI I/O, the usual bank of Boss FX, some form of S/R jacks, and, most important for your purposes, Amp Modeling. MY GT-10 even has FRFR Amp Modeling, and A/B Channel Switching, so you can have different Amp models in different Channels and either mix them or switch between them, which might save you some cabling?

 

The MIDI capabilities are pretty extensive for Guitar FX, such that one could double as a MIDI switcher (sending PC# Commands), or you can Assign different MIDI CC Commands to the on-board Control Switches & Expression Pedal, as well. Consider that almost any rack unit you might get would also want some kind of foot controller, and a MFX pedalboard becomes more attractive.

 

I have two Analog MonoSynths, a Novation Bass Station II and a Korg Monologue, so I get you about the knob twisting; the onboard Sequencing is pretty fun too. Still, both of them benefit from some outboard FX. FWIW, I'd tried using a Boss GT-6b with my BSII (thinking the frequency range of a Bass MFX might be better suited to the Synth's range) but found it very underwhelming. The GT-6b proved to be underwhelming, overall, so it's the one Boss MFX that I got rid of.

[J. Dan]

Synth will be an MFB Dominion 1, FWIW

[Winston Psmith]

Synth will be an MFB Dominion 1, FWIW

 

Damn, that's nice! Hadn't seen one before, so thank you for that. Wish I could justify one for myself . . . Odd that there's no built-in OD?

 

Still leaning towards the MFX, largely because of personal preference, but given all the features and real-time control, on that Synth, I'm going to reiterate my suggestion that you check out a Boss BD-2 Blues Driver. Most 'natural' Amp-like tone & response of any affordable mass-market OD I've ever used; reminded me of my Blues Cube, in pedal form.

[d halfnote]

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I'm hardly up on the newest tech & my not help at all

but I'll just mention that c.1990,

after yrs of small clubs etc, when playing gtr, bass & kb,

I ultimately wound up w/a McIntosh power amp + parametric EQ & pedalboard.

The more diff types of music I played, the less I depended on the amp for defining sound.

 

The best modern equivalent I couldn't say but I wonder if, looking to the future, a sys based around a laptop might be worth considering.

 

 

 

[Caevan O’Shite]

 

Here ya go... MIDI Control for Strymon Sunset and Riverside

 

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[Winston Psmith]

While I don't have either of those pedals, I'm wondering if that EXP-to-MIDI cable might work for anything else? I've got a bunch of toys that send and recieve CC or CV.

[J. Dan]

A couple clarifications

 

I suppose nobody can answer this for me, but I was sort of thinking out loud - being an original progressive metal band, part of my decision making process is "do I come up with a rig that is 'my sound' or do I come up with a rig that is flexible and gives me lots of possibilities?" If this was for my cover band, flexibility is a necessity. But I'm kind of treating this lead synth like a dedicated solo instrument with a narrow purpose.

 

Along those lines, while MIDI control is nice and I have the gear to easily integrate, maybe the nature of what I'm doing could lend itself to tap dancing footswitches and pedals and some knob twisting.....after all, this is a very knobby synth and that's the point.....performance! But MIDI can give me a consistent starting point and enable use of other control surfaces and pedals.

 

My Kronos has a ton of great effects, and if I run it through that the way I'm thinking, really the ONLY thing I care about is a really high quality OD/Distortion, the Kronos actually has amp/cabinet models, they just aren't very good. That's why I was leaning towards a true tube amp or pedal. But I know some of the sims are really good.

 

Maybe ideal would be some sort of tube preamp with some different combinations of tubes and channels with midi controlled switching, gain, and volume. But don't get hung up in MIDI. Maybe just a foot switchable 2-channel device would work considering all of the boost, eq, etc that I could do in the Kronos prior as well as the other effects after.

[Lokair]

J.Dan I think you maybe in the market for something like a Mesa triple crown 50 ,all tube three channels two modes per channel, midi controllable and has built in cab clone as well as a solo control. That is if your thinking tube amp. Or you could go kemper and use profiles.

 

Lok

[Winston Psmith]

@J. Dan - Starting to get a better idea of what you're looking for. While I get that more FX would be overkill, don't discount the possibility of finding an inexpensive, used MFX with Tubes, so you would have access to MIDI switching, and a real tube drive channel, in a rack unit. Nothing says that you have to use the FX, after all.

 

BTW, I totally support the idea of a 'lead Synth'. Even as a MIDI Guitar guy, a lot of the Patches I've designed are Mono Patches, for Synth leads. It's also part of why I got my MonoSynths.

[d halfnote]

A couple clarifications... part of my decision making process is "do I come up with a rig that is 'my sound' or do I come up with a rig that is flexible and gives me lots of possibilities?" If this was for my cover band, flexibility is a necessity. But I'm kind of treating this lead synth like a dedicated solo instrument with a narrow purpose.....

:idk

I don't see the diff in those goals except that one is by definition flexible & allows "yer new sound" + other things.

Unless y'actually wanna carry 2 setups, that "narrow purpose" thing would seem to just, uh, narrow yer purpose.

:idk

 

[J. Dan]

I don't see the diff in those goals except that one is by definition flexible & allows "yer new sound" + other things.

 

There's not NECESSARILY a difference, but in my mind, typically going for a more flexible MFX type deal means sacrificing some some thing, where I want to focus on the OD/Distortion and not sacrifice that just to have bells and whistles.

[Winston Psmith]

This looks like a contender - no tubes, but two independent OD channels.

 

Truetone Dual OD

[Caevan O’Shite]

 

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