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Yamaha YS200 Internal Battery Repair problem


Mighty Motif Max

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Hi everyone,

 

Yesterday evening we replaced the CR2032 battery in my YS-200. The diagnostic mode showed it as only being at .4 volts, and I was getting the usual gibberish for patch names in the user bank (even when loaded with sysex) and tuning issues. We followed the instructions from http://snackeyes.blogspot.com/2017/06/replacing-yamaha-ys200-synthesizer.html except we made a battery holder, attached it to the underside of the card reader, and ran wires to the metal pieces we left attached. When we turned the unit on after reassembling it, the diagnostic said the battery was at 4.6 volts, "NG" (No Good). It wants somewhere around 3.5 volts I think. That's what the battery was labeled too. I did a factory reset, and the user bank retained the factory preset duplicates fine. And I was able to record a track on the sequencer which I could not do before. I turned the YS200 on this morning, and it was out of tune again, and the patches were all gibberish in the user bank once again.

 

 

 

Ideas?

 

Thanks,

 

-Max

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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A CR2032 lithium coin cell has a nominal voltage of 3 volts. A fresh one is typically around 3.3 volts unloaded. You said the battery was labeled 3.5 volts, which is not how a CR2032 should be labeled. Are you sure the replacement battery you're using is a CR2032?

 

The circuit for powering the Static RAM (SRAM) chips is designed so that when the YS200 is off the battery supplies backup power. When the YS200 is on, a 5 volt supply powers the SRAM - it's connected via a switching transistor, so the voltage is somewhat less than 5 volts. A steering diode and resistor are in series with the battery so that when the YS200 is powered, the 5 volts doesn't get applied to the battery. The diode prevents the CR2032 from being charged.

 

Without seeing what you did, I suspect that you've managed to connect the battery in a manner that shorts out the diode. That could explain the 4.5 volts the test mode is reporting, and if so that can damage the battery as well.

 

Try this - remove the battery from the holder, and run the YS200 battery test. What voltage is reported?

 

Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

 

 

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A CR2032 lithium coin cell has a nominal voltage of 3 volts. A fresh one is typically around 3.3 volts unloaded. You said the battery was labeled 3.5 volts, which is not how a CR2032 should be labeled. Are you sure the replacement battery you're using is a CR2032?

 

The circuit for powering the Static RAM (SRAM) chips is designed so that when the YS200 is off the battery supplies backup power. When the YS200 is on, a 5 volt supply powers the SRAM - it's connected via a switching transistor, so the voltage is somewhat less than 5 volts. A steering diode and resistor are in series with the battery so that when the YS200 is powered, the 5 volts doesn't get applied to the battery. The diode prevents the CR2032 from being charged.

 

Without seeing what you did, I suspect that you've managed to connect the battery in a manner that shorts out the diode. That could explain the 4.5 volts the test mode is reporting, and if so that can damage the battery as well.

 

Try this - remove the battery from the holder, and run the YS200 battery test. What voltage is reported?

 

Sorry, brain fart there. Was estimating from memory. Checked the other battery in the package - it's a CR2032, and it IS labeled 3 volts. Sorry. Correcting my initial post so as to not confuse anyone else.

 

 

I'll run the battery test likely tomorrow. It's getting late in my time zone. :-)

 

 

Thank you!

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Tested the voltage with the battery removed. It still says "4.6V NG" with no battery. If I flip the battery around so that the leads are reversed essentially, I get "0.0V NG".

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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4.6V sounds maybe like the voltmeter is a Hi-Z input that expects to be pulled down by the battery in order to have a valid reading.

 

This should be easy to troubleshoot, MIDI2XS has described the usual circuit, what does your battery read when it is out of circuit? What is the voltage at the steering diode? Across it?

 

 

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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4.6V sounds maybe like the voltmeter is a Hi-Z input that expects to be pulled down by the battery in order to have a valid reading.

 

This should be easy to troubleshoot, MIDI2XS has described the usual circuit, what does your battery read when it is out of circuit? What is the voltage at the steering diode? Across it?

 

 

I'm using the internal testing mode, not any external tool. Where is this diode?

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Tested the voltage with the battery removed. It still says "4.6V NG" with no battery. If I flip the battery around so that the leads are reversed essentially, I get "0.0V NG".

Take a close look at the soldering of the wire to where the original battery's plus terminal was. Make sure the wire or solder isn't connecting to anything other than that original battery plus. The diode (D2) is located right near the original battery.

 

You might want to just get a CR2032 with solder tabs like the original. Although not as convenient as having a battery holder, they last for so many years it usually isn't a problem. If you decide to go that route, be careful where you get it - I've seen pricing from about $1 to $12.

 

Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

 

 

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If it's the same as the DX7...just pony up the fifteen bucks for the Yamaha battery, they used a non-standard pin-spacing, and at a buck a year...the time savings during install is worth it. :)

Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3

Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H

Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9

Roland: VR-09, RD-800

 

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  • 2 months later...
Tested the voltage with the battery removed. It still says "4.6V NG" with no battery. If I flip the battery around so that the leads are reversed essentially, I get "0.0V NG".

Take a close look at the soldering of the wire to where the original battery's plus terminal was. Make sure the wire or solder isn't connecting to anything other than that original battery plus. The diode (D2) is located right near the original battery.

 

You might want to just get a CR2032 with solder tabs like the original. Although not as convenient as having a battery holder, they last for so many years it usually isn't a problem. If you decide to go that route, be careful where you get it - I've seen pricing from about $1 to $12.

 

OK. Sorry for the long wait. Things have been going on here that have prevented me from having time to disassemble it again.

 

Pic album of inside: https://ibb.co/album/nez5gF

 

Readout now gives me "0.1V NG" when battery is in.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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OK. Sorry for the long wait. Things have been going on here that have prevented me from having time to disassemble it again.

 

Pic album of inside: https://ibb.co/album/nez5gF

 

Readout now gives me "0.1V NG" when battery is in.

Do you have access to a multimeter?

 

Is the battery holder a commercial product, or is it "home brew"?

 

Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

 

 

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OK. Sorry for the long wait. Things have been going on here that have prevented me from having time to disassemble it again.

 

Pic album of inside: https://ibb.co/album/nez5gF

 

Readout now gives me "0.1V NG" when battery is in.

Do you have access to a multimeter?

 

Is the battery holder a commercial product, or is it "home brew"?

 

Yes, I have an older multimeter. The holder is "home brew" I guess, as none of the hardware stores or Menards or Lowes etc have them apparently or even know what they are.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Yes, I have an older multimeter. The holder is "home brew" I guess, as none of the hardware stores or Menards or Lowes etc have them apparently or even know what they are.

As long as the meter is functional, its age doesn't matter.

 

With the YS200 unpowered, what voltage does the meter indicate at the p.c. board connections where the battery was originally installed? If other than about 3 volts, what does the battery itself measure if removed from the holder?

 

Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

 

 

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Yes, I have an older multimeter. The holder is "home brew" I guess, as none of the hardware stores or Menards or Lowes etc have them apparently or even know what they are.

As long as the meter is functional, its age doesn't matter.

 

With the YS200 unpowered, what voltage does the meter indicate at the p.c. board connections where the battery was originally installed? If other than about 3 volts, what does the battery itself measure if removed from the holder?

 

Ok. PC connections showed 0.04 volts. Battery removed from holder showed the same. Replaced it with another new CR-2032 reading 3.4 volts on the meter, read 3.4 volts at the pc board connections, ran internal test. 3.4, OK. So it was apparently a bad new battery. Problem seems to be fixed. Factory-reset it (did a sysex backup before opening it up the first time in case I ever need it). Factory user bank holds through power cycles, so it looks like it's fixed.

 

 

Thank you MIDI2XS and WesG for your help!!!

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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Ok. PC connections showed 0.04 volts. Battery removed from holder showed the same. Replaced it with another new CR-2032 reading 3.4 volts on the meter, read 3.4 volts at the pc board connections, ran internal test. 3.4, OK. So it was apparently a bad new battery. Problem seems to be fixed. Factory-reset it (did a sysex backup before opening it up the first time in case I ever need it). Factory user bank holds through power cycles, so it looks like it's fixed.

Seems good. If everything is OK, the battery should work for many years - time will tell.

 

 

Thank you MIDI2XS and WesG for your help!!!

I'm glad things are working now.

 

Yamaha: Motif XF6 and XS6, A3000V2, A4000, YS200 | Korg: T3EX, 05R/W | Fender Chroma Polaris | Roland U-220 | Etc.

 

 

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