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OT Rant; Post Malone- what's disappointing in todays music


Song80s

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There is so much creativity, great song writing, inspiring performances in music.

 

But todays commercial side does not resemble that- unless you are impressed by glossy production standards.

 

If this rant is offensive, I am ok with deleting it.

 

My point is if average or less than average talent is generating millions

of dollars and attracting a huge demographic , it is worthwhile defining

and understanding why this exists in the general public.

 

I know, why bother ? Fight or flight is primal. I choose to face it.

 

Ok ? ready,, aim...

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/post-malone-is-the-perfect-pop-star-for-this-american-moment-thats-not-a-compliment/2018/10/30/ad6112b8-dbc4-11e8-b732-3c72cbf131f2_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5160f7b90937

 

Post Malone is the perfect pop star for this American moment. Thats not a compliment.

 

The most popular young artist in the most unpopular young nation is a rhinestone cowboy who looks like he crawled out of a primordial swamp of nacho cheese. Post Malone is a Halloween rental, a removable platinum grill, a Cubic Zirconium proposal on the jumbo screen of a last-place team.

 

His music one of the shallowest bastardizations of rap to date, and I dont say that lightly has the creative tension of associates at a downtown law firm complaining that $150,000 a year just doesnt cut it. He looks like he got clubbed over the head by a cartoon peacock. He just turned 23.

 

And America just cant get enough. Nielsen recently named the suburban-Dallas-raised rapper 2018s most popular musician. So it was only a matter of time before Malone had his own festival, a contemporary rite of passage for nearly every major pop-rap star who has his face plastered across Spotifys Get Turnt Playlist.

 

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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[snip #2]

 

On recordings, his falsetto is afforded a modest four-cylinder strength. But onstage it comes off slurred and sloppy, twitching like roadkill, limp off-key notes underscored by a booming backing track that operated like a life preserver.

 

Im going to get f----- up tonight. Who is f----- up tonight? If I forget the words because Im too drunk, help me sing along, he told the crowd.

 

Its the same applause line that he used at Coachella. His entire set list was essentially identical to what he played at every festival all summer long, right down to the monosyllabic, curse-laden, between-song babbling about haters and the importance of rawking out and turning up.

 

Even if his voice barely slithered past the 10th row, it didnt matter to fans who knew every word. They were there to commune to songs such as Better Now, his latest anthem to interchangeable heartache, presumably made for streaming at the Wahoos Fish Taco kiosk at LAX. The problem isnt necessarily that its crass but that its meaningless. Its not that its stupid but that its vacant. Its the losing difference between appropriation and outright theft.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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[snip #3]

 

He introduced Candy Paint, his song from the Fate of the Furious soundtrack, by telling the crowd that, its a little something that we know about in Texas, before flounder-crooning: Candy paint with the white on top/Lambo doors of the oo-op drop/If you busy plotting on what I got/Kick in your door, thats SWAT you thot.

 

From the artists in the Screwed Up Click to UGK to Swishahouse, anthems consecrated to candy-painted cars are a fundamental component of Texas hip-hop. Its a tradition thats cut across racial lines to include Houston rappers such as Paul Wall and Riff Raff, who carved out singularly flamboyant lanes. They were originals. Post Malone is not.

 

There was no backing band and not even any set design for this victory-lap performance.

 

Just smoke and fire and yellow sodium stage lights that seemed to expose his limitations. On Over Now, he compared sex to body bags in a way that makes you wonder whether his entire sum of carnal knowledge comes from Pornhub.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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He makes Vanilla Ice look like Luther Vandross. He makes Macklemore look like Mac Dre.

 

As if things couldnt get any worse, Post Malone posed a question to the crowd: Do you guys mind if I play my guitar for you? he asked rhetorically, smoking a cigarette, sitting down for the part of the show where you are supposed to believe that hes an artiste because he can competently strum an instrument.

 

This is usually when people start walking away at festivals, but I hope you stay. .. This song is about feeling really sad.

 

Post Malones problem isnt that hes a bad person or even completely untalented. Its that he stands for nothing at all. He can afford to feign the swagger and cool of hip-hop when its convenient and opt out when its time to see whos riding for the cause. Its always been a fairly straightforward compact when it comes to hip-hop: If youre a white person eating off what has historically been black culture, you have a certain obligation to repay that creative debt. Eminem continues to attack the hypocrisies and contradictions that allowed him to leapfrog equally gifted artists. Macklemore may have lacked subtlety or a rudimentary understanding of when to share text messages, but there was no questioning his dedication to confront his white privilege.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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[final snip, thank-god]

 

It is true, after all. Post Malone has won. Hes received wealth and fame with little accountability. Hes reaped the extreme benefits of a system that allowed him to flourish yet asserts his privilege to remain purposefully ignorant. He knows he won the lottery but doesnt understand that it was rigged in his favor. This is what the zeitgeist demanded as the latest whole-milk hip-hop avatar: a proud non-voter, a nonreader of books, the type of person who gets a JFK tattoo without knowing about Kennedys role in the Voting Rights Act while bizarrely claiming that he was the only president to speak out against the crazy corruption stuff thats going on in our government nowadays. In other interviews, hes repeatedly espoused tangled Alex Jones conspiracy theories about chemtrails, the government coming to take our assault rifles and secret guns that can give people heart attacks. Hes also a doomsday prepper, because of course he is.

 

What Post Malone so perfectly represents is the idiotic currents that have carried us to this present cultural submersion where an objective notion of the truth has been systematically muddied, facts are negotiable and any hint of criticism be it for lacking integrity, dignity or talent can be brazenly dismissed as the pitiful cries of the haters. So congratulations, I guess. Who allowed this happen? What hole in the system allowed this greasy discarded barbecue wrapper to prosper? A fake pale king sitting on a tinfoil throne.

 

Return to sender.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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We've unfortunately come to a point in which up and coming( read:"young") recording "artists" have come to expect not only gratification to be instant, but success as well. And an aggressive enough hype might help achieve that. And being OK with being TOLD all the time what you're EXPECTED to like or not doesn't help either. Most people still want peer acceptance, and if at least pretending to like some particular singer or actor, etc., achieves that, then we ARE stuck.

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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We've unfortunately come to a point in which up and coming( read:"young") recording "artists" have come to expect not only gratification to be instant, but success as well. And an aggressive enough hype might help achieve that. And being OK with being TOLD all the time what you're EXPECTED to like or not doesn't help either. Most people still want peer acceptance, and if at least pretending to like some particular singer or actor, etc., achieves that, then we ARE stuck.

Whitefang

 

You bring up a strong point - something I have noticed for a decade or 2.

 

Its what I call ' following the herd'. Similar to 'safety in numbers' .

 

I think Post Malone might be an example. The hype is strong. Its possible

listeners are told its cool to ' like' him. So the herd builds and blindly follows along.

 

It takes a large sum of money to manufacture the image and fertilize it in the

media. Thus a small independent very talented artist, without the funds might perceive

the business is 19,000 foot tall mountain to climb.

 

I consider Facebook an example of following the herd. Not so much lately

but definitely 5-10 yrs ago. Not trying to change topic here, just asserting

an example.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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I've never heard this guy's Music, AFAIK, but I do get the Washington Post, so I'd already read the article.

 

Interesting thing; as the lengthy quotes above will show, there is nothing in the entire article to really describe what he sounds like? It's essentially a hate rant about how this guy represents everything that's wrong with modern Music: he very well might, but I have no way to determine that from reading the article.

 

Not all forms of Music, or Musical expression are going to appeal to everyone, and for all I know, this guy may be the worst thing since . . . Milli Vanilli, Sigue Sigue Sputnik, who knows? I just didn't feel like I learned anything from reading that article the first time, even less the second time around . . .

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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I've never heard this guy's Music, AFAIK, but I do get the Washington Post, so I'd already read the article.

 

Interesting thing; as the lengthy quotes above will show, there is nothing in the entire article to really describe what he sounds like? It's essentially a hate rant about how this guy represents everything that's wrong with modern Music: he very well might, but I have no way to determine that from reading the article.

 

Not all forms of Music, or Musical expression are going to appeal to everyone, and for all I know, this guy may be the worst thing since . . . Milli Vanilli, Sigue Sigue Sputnik, who knows? I just didn't feel like I learned anything from reading that article the first time, even less the second time around . . .

 

Author made several comparisons/contrasts to other artists- in that genre

I suspect the author is not a musician. He does not necessarily paint the 'word pictures'

of Mr Amlone's music.

 

When I glanced at the article title, I stopped. I then YouTubed Mr Malone. That sealed the deal for me.

 

In general, I thinks its a good idea to make up our own mind.

 

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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I didn't read the article but I Youtubed him and I won't be doing it again LOL! He's not my cup of tea. I think it's another case of a promoter's packaged music that I'm not interested in listening to. I wish him success though, as the crowd/herd seems to like it in the live performance clip of Better Now... :cool:
Take care, Larryz
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[font:Comic Sans MS]That whole piece could've been summed up by one old quote: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." - H. L. Mencken

 

...having said that, I hope he can manage to hang on to at least some of the $$$$ flowing his way right now. Too many people get ground up and shit out by the entertainment industry for me to wish him ill.[/font]

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Always loved that quote HUGO---

 

Plus, I long thought the sad state of "modern music" could be attributed to another psych philosophy-----

 

If you fed a group of starving people rotted food and garbage, and ONLY that for a long enough period of time, they would grow to love it, consider it "gourmet" fare, and then prefer it to anything else(or better). A sociology teacher I had back in high school brought that up once... ;)

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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Always loved that quote HUGO---

 

Plus, I long thought the sad state of "modern music" could be attributed to another psych philosophy-----

 

If you fed a group of starving people rotted food and garbage, and ONLY that for a long enough period of time, they would grow to love it, consider it "gourmet" fare, and then prefer it to anything else(or better). A sociology teacher I had back in high school brought that up once... ;)

Whitefang

 

a good analogy. The big labels know that the majority of new music listeners will gravitate to what they are ' familiar ' with. Such as the same 4 chords but played in a different order/vocal and BPM.

 

Then music producers demand this mind numbing approach of young band/performers, and the result is blasted on all media, digital sites.

 

So what gets ignored and lost in the ether is interesting unique music that artists are diligently creating.

 

I don't believe this is news, as it this mass production has been going on for a decade or 2.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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Reposted for your consideration.

[video:youtube]https://www.watch?v=oVME_l4IwII

 

that 'millennial whoop ' is the most irritating sound in the world

 

i think every pop music producer has a sample of it thus its been

wash/rinse/repeat for the past 10 years. Zero imagination.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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I'm not hip to PMalone but O suspect that doesn't matter, really.

The ebb & flow of entertainment's always, uh, ebbing & flowing & there's always some highly marketed nothing swimmn w/the legit bits.

--------

This insert = post checking out Post Malone....

Gave him several minutes but did not hear anything at all distinctive.

Went back for another taste

[video:youtube]

Better production & vaguely entertaining vid but still as meh as meh gets.

What's the point ?

------------------------------

 

Antidote ?

The Magic of Music !

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2957233/The_magic_of_music#Post2957233

d=halfnote
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I'm not hip to PMalone but O suspect that doesn't matter, really.

The ebb & flow of entertainment's always, uh, ebbing & flowing & there's always some highly marketed nothing swimmn w/the legit bits.

--------

This insert = post checking out Post Malone....

Gave him several minutes but did not hear anything at all distinctive.

Went back for another taste

[video:youtube]

Better production & vaguely entertaining vid but still as meh as meh gets.

What's the point ?

------------------------------

 

Antidote ?

The Magic of Music !

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2957233/The_magic_of_music#Post2957233

 

I disregard the cartoon video. I lost interest in cartoons at 6 yrs of age,

 

I focus on music- thats #1

 

mr Malone or his wise producers is running his mediocre vocal thru 'pitch correction ' software and/or a vocoder.

 

this ' robotic voice' Fx came out 15 years ago. It was lame then and to my ears, its more than lame now.

 

I much prefer a talented vocalist who can hit notes, have interesting tone and not rely on some trick to mask lack of/ or mediocre skill.

 

IOW this song has an over produced 'phony vocal '.

 

I know listeners 'like ' the robotic/synthesized vocal. I can not relate to that.

 

The music- in addition to a drum machine, I detect 4 simple synthesizer tracks with a dose of FX.

These are not demanding to play, in that they are repetitive and sit in the mix.

I call this ' copy/paste' synthesizer work. Likely Malone and his production partner

messed around with simple synth parts until they got the glossy burpy- bleep bleep vibe

they heard in their heads.

 

Again, some like copy paste synth tracks. And they would like to make money doing the same. Not much creative keyboard work going on.

 

This song example underlines my OP

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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Greg, animated film can be terrific---don't miss the good b/c of the bad !

In this case it's the best part of the clip. :D

 

I'm not tryna defend PM (already said he's a bore as far as I can tell) but I would suggest that any tool can be used for a good result or a bad result.

Let's take Vocoder-style vox.

It's not just pitch correction for singers that can't---it can be used creatively.

Check old PFunk recs for the effect used to create the voice of Sir Nose Devoid O'Funk or the rhythmic emphasis it added to Cher's long-ago hit "Do You Believe".

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

 

Cher wasn't a great singer but she was OK; the device was used deliberately to tweak the rhythmic aspects of the track.

It's no diff, really, than echo, delay or other modulation tools.

It's never the tool, it's the way it's used, eh ?

 

In the case of George Clinton's use, it wasn't even used as intended but as a way to manipulate sound &, I think, quite creatively.

 

You may not like any uses of the effect you've heard so far but try this: think abt how the effect might be used strictly as a pitch modulation or rhythmic device rather than a "fix-the-off-key-vox" tool.

I bet you can find a creative use for the tool. :idk

 

But yes, PM is a bore.

d=halfnote
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Greg, animated film can be terrific---don't miss the good b/c of the bad !

In this case it's the best part of the clip. :D

 

I'm not tryna defend PM (already said he's a bore as far as I can tell) but I would suggest that any tool can be used for a good result or a bad result.

Let's take Vocoder-style vox.

It's not just pitch correction for singers that can't---it can be used creatively.

Check old PFunk recs for the effect used to create the voice of Sir Nose Devoid O'Funk or the rhythmic emphasis it added to Cher's long-ago hit "Do You Believe".

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

 

Cher wasn't a great singer but she was OK; the device was used deliberately to tweak the rhythmic aspects of the track.

It's no diff, really, than echo, delay or other modulation tools.

It's never the tool, it's the way it's used, eh ?

 

In the case of George Clinton's use, it wasn't even used as intended but as a way to manipulate sound &, I think, quite creatively.

 

You may not like any uses of the effect you've heard so far but try this: think abt how the effect might be used strictly as a pitch modulation or rhythmic device rather than a "fix-the-off-key-vox" tool.

I bet you can find a creative use for the tool. :idk

 

But yes, PM is a bore.

 

Cher's " Believe " was from 1998. Which sort of underlines my point- the robotic voice

is a gimmick that was used 15-20 yrs ago. We can go back further with Frampton's

Talk Box- that was imaginative, IMO

 

And Funkadelic/Clinton material goes back to the 70;s- to experiment with

Vocal Fx was standard stuff/and now it has a 'classic ' vibe.

 

Keep in mind my criticism is of current ' artists' who are highly derivative and lack

creativity. Or what I call " copy/paste ".

 

I am not dead set against use of synthesized vocals- just the lame use of copying a robotic effect in 2018.

 

I use sampled choirs and mellotrons all the time in my originals.

 

For one song [Days With You] i have male/female synths bickering at each other.

I know thats a gimmick and its good for 1 minute or less. But not an entire song or

every song etc, etc.

 

Lets say careful and thoughtful use of FX, whatever type, is what I strive for in an original song written today. I suppose everyone has their own standard.

 

 

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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I agree with the premise that Post Malone as is most of the rappers or as I like to refer "C-Rappers". But it sells, so commercially, what sells will continue to be produced. Sad but true!

 

This permeates all genre of music, and speaks to where the Millennials are preferentially speaking. What I like is what I have enjoyed forever. But the youngsters think of that music is similar my view of theirs. That's life.

 

Over my life I've seen this so many times. Jazz, big band, rockabilly, rock and roll, folk, blues, metal, old country and Western, Honky tonk, new country, country-rap crossover, on and on ad-nauseum.

 

How can we precipitate change?

 

Wait,

 

Record some great new sound

 

Convince everyone to buy something different.

 

Or just kick back, turn up your stereo and play what you like. Thank goodness for Pandora or it's competition. I can select my own channel and voila, I don't have to listen to C-Rap!

 

Just sayin'

 

 

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Cher's " Believe " was from 1998. Which sort of underlines my point- the robotic voice

is a gimmick that was used 15-20 yrs ago. We can go back further with Frampton's

Talk Box- that was imaginative, IMO

 

And Funkadelic/Clinton material goes back to the 70;s- to experiment with

Vocal Fx was standard stuff/and now it has a 'classic ' vibe.

 

Keep in mind my criticism is of current ' artists' who are highly derivative and lack

creativity. Or what I call " copy/paste ".

 

I am not dead set against use of synthesized vocals- just the lame use of copying a robotic effect in 2018.

 

I use sampled choirs and mellotrons all the time in my originals.

 

For one song [Days With You] i have male/female synths bickering at each other.

I know thats a gimmick and its good for 1 minute or less. But not an entire song or

every song etc, etc.

 

Lets say careful and thoughtful use of FX, whatever type, is what I strive for in an original song written today. I suppose everyone has their own standard.

 

 

I think we mostly agree but I don't see/hear any reason to "tome stamp" the use of a tool.

Might as well say fuzz/dist gtr is so 19560s. :D

Ever hear this one ?

There's nothing new under the sun .

d=halfnote
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Cher's " Believe " was from 1998. Which sort of underlines my point- the robotic voice

is a gimmick that was used 15-20 yrs ago. We can go back further with Frampton's

Talk Box- that was imaginative, IMO

 

And Funkadelic/Clinton material goes back to the 70;s- to experiment with

Vocal Fx was standard stuff/and now it has a 'classic ' vibe.

 

Keep in mind my criticism is of current ' artists' who are highly derivative and lack

creativity. Or what I call " copy/paste ".

 

I am not dead set against use of synthesized vocals- just the lame use of copying a robotic effect in 2018.

 

I use sampled choirs and mellotrons all the time in my originals.

 

For one song [Days With You] i have male/female synths bickering at each other.

I know thats a gimmick and its good for 1 minute or less. But not an entire song or

every song etc, etc.

 

Lets say careful and thoughtful use of FX, whatever type, is what I strive for in an original song written today. I suppose everyone has their own standard.

 

 

I think we mostly agree but I don't see/hear any reason to "tome stamp" the use of a tool.

Might as well say fuzz/dist gtr is so 19560s. :D

Ever hear this one ?

There's nothing new under the sun .

 

I like history. I think its worth pointing out the facts of 60's/70's/80's.

 

One of my rants is that my local millennials don't giveashit about

what happened in 1960/70/80. But I digress.

 

When a dood like post Malone utilizes some technique/or tool

from the past, it can be called out.

Plus, I prefer to analyze what I hear.

 

Maybe Some pop performers are not interested in

discussing their influences . In many cases its

unconscious to the musician.

 

I agree, there is lots of ' re-purposing ' masquerading as

'creativity '. Some might coincidental or accidental.

 

Prince was great about checking similarities

in a new song. There is 1 song, where he called

Jonathon Cain [Journey] to go over what might

be a strong chord/melody similarity.

 

Cain told him it was cool, to go ahead.

 

I call that integrity.

 

I rest my case.

Why fit in, when you were born to stand out ?

My Soundcloud with many originals:

[70's Songwriter]

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I usually don't bother with analyzing what I hear, unless for some reason, I might wish to try replicating it. Or it's so unique I simply MUST know how it was done.

 

I too, don't have anything against using "old time" techniques or "gimmicks" if they are used in a "new" way or add something interesting to the tune.

 

As for Frampton's "talk box", I've heard only two others use the device (JOE WALSH; "Rocky Mountain Way"--'73; and RUFUS; "Tell Me Something Good"-- '74) both PRE Frampton's use on his '75 live album. If Frampton used it BEFORE those two, I've never heard it, so I'll apologize ahead of time and consider any corrections. And the point of this mention is that I've not heard it used SINCE. ;)

 

And anyway....

 

I think it wrong to condemn ALL "modern music" out of hand. Or, ANY music as far as that goes. I usually go "song by song" but must admit I've yet to HEAR any song coming out today that's appealed to my ear. So........

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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As for Frampton's "talk box", I've heard only two others use the device (JOE WALSH; "Rocky Mountain Way"--'73; and RUFUS; "Tell Me Something Good"-- '74) both PRE Frampton's use on his '75 live album.

Whitefang

 

Also heard on Steely Dan's version of Ellington's 'East St Louis Toodle-oo' on the Pretzel Logic album, & Gilmour takes a talk box solo on one of the tracks (I forget which) on Animals. Jeff Beck had one on some British TV show, but I've never heard any recorded use of it from him.

Scott Fraser
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Something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue...

 

I'm not married to any of "today's music" like I am the older stuff, regardless of genre. It seems to be more about the show than the music these days... :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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Actually, LarZ that's the way it's always been.

Even The Beatles, James Brown or pick-yer-own-example hadda rely on catching the eye/ear of any mass audience by their showmanship....& yes The Beatles were a show band from the start of the career.

The quality of the musical creations had little to do w/their initial success.

 

Ppl tend to look back on whatever "their era" was (usually their youth) as diff from other times, esp "the ever-deteriorating world we live in". The reality is that mostly the diff is all in their perceptual viewpoint.

 

The only real times in the last 100 years or so that there was an actual diff in social attitudes, I think, are the times following the 2 major world wars of the 20th C & the times following the Great Depression & during the mid-20th C social upheavals here in the USA, when there was an emphasis on idealism that, for whatever reason(s) seems to've declined circa the early 1970s.

 

I find it rare that even creative ppl are open to new art that exists outside their ingrained ideas.

For example in regard to the current topic, many might dislike PMalone automatically simply b/c they hear just another rapper rather than v/c he's mediocre & seemingly un-inventive, automatically presuming that no rap/C&W/avant-garde-electonic-music or whatever can be good.

 

Most minds quit growing early on, eh ?

d=halfnote
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