VPC1 vs Nord Piano 4 / Velocity question...

[Imagine]

I have a fairly complex studio setup, so to keep this test simple, I recorded 4 chords (twice) on the NP4 and then on the VPC using an iPhone. If I had recorded this directly to PT, you wouldn't hear the difference during playback. My issue with the NP4 sound is during live playing.

 

The iPhone is placed between the L/R monitors.

 

I instantiated CFX Grand Piano in PT. Velocity and action issues aside, you'll notice that the NP4 is duller in sound whereas the VPC is vibrant. I played both keybed's with the same velocity/strength.

 

Here's the link.

 

https://we.tl/t-u35t5I0xbo

 

Capturing this comparison on the iPhone isn't ideal, but as simplified as this is, you'll notice a difference between the NP4 and VPC.

[gg22]

All I really need is a controller without internal sounds, but with a great keybed.

 

Then I don't really understand why you'd chose the NP4. 75% of it's price is sounds.

[Imagine]

It was recommended that I try it. If stores in LA had it, I wouldn't have bought it.

[Markyboard]

I have a fairly complex studio setup, so to keep this test simple, I recorded 4 chords (twice) on the NP4 and then on the VPC using an iPhone. If I had recorded this directly to PT, you wouldn't hear the difference during playback. My issue with the NP4 sound is during live playing.

 

 

This right here tells me it's something other than the controllers causing the difference. Are you using the same instatiation/track for both controllers? What else is different when using the VPC vs the NP4? Please describe your set up here. I would investigate why they behave similarly when recording and playing back from PT and not when monitoring in real time.

 

If I understand correctly both controllers are sending out midi velocity up to 127 with no noticeable difference. I can't think of anything else the controller is doing to cause the difference in your iPhone recording.

 

 

 

 

 

[Imagine]

I'm using the same instantiation/track for both controllers. Nothing is different between the two. I have both connected via USB.

 

Testing both VPC and NP4, the Midi Monitor app displayed that both are sending out midi velocity up to 127. Keep in mind though, it's easier to get the VPC to play up to 127 than it is the NP4. I have to bang a little harder to get that to happen.

 

I really can't figure out why this is happening either. I was really surprised that there's such a difference. You can hear it in the iPhone recording. It's even more obvious in the studio.

[burningbusch]

Which preset are you using on the Kawai?

 

Busch.

[Imagine]

I'm using the Normal setting. When I bought the VPC, I tried the other settings but preferred it set to Normal.

[Markyboard]

At this point I would concentrate on playing a single note at or near velocity 127 alternating between controllers. If you can confirm that PT is receiving values of or near 127 and hearing significant differences than something strange is happening in PT or with the VST. It might also be useful to try a VST in stand-alone mode to eliminate PT as a candidate cause.

 

Better still if you can use a hardware sound source- the internals sounds of the NP4 will do provided you turn local control off.

[Imagine]

I tried it in stand-alone mode and the same thing occurred. The VPC was alive, while the NP4 sounded muted / dull. The internal sounds are a little better, but the action feels unnatural. I guess I'm used to wooden keys. The VPC has a much better overall action.

 

I really didn't expect this from a 3K keyboard.

[jimkost2002]

 

 

Has anyone ever compared the action between the NP4 and the Yamaha CP4?

 

I have played and recorded with both. What would you like to know?

[Markyboard]

The internal sounds are a little better, but the action feels unnatural. I guess I'm used to wooden keys. The VPC has a much better overall action.

 

I really didn't expect this from a 3K keyboard.

 

This is where I think It gets confusing. If it's simply a matter of requiring more force to get the higher velocities out of the NP4 vs the VPC-1 then the duller sound playing from the NP4 makes sense. I had the same problem with the Korg Z1 where it took some serious force to get those upper velocity values with the built in keybed as opposed to an external controller. I'm just trying to figure out if there is something actually wrong/broken with your NP4 as you seemed to indicate earlier,

 

Question: Are you getting a difference in sound from the NP4 's internal sounds when playing direct vs. using it as a midi controller with local control off? If so then this is what I would discuss with Nord. Otherwise I recommend moving on as the NP4 isn't for you.

 

 

[Michael Wright]

I may have missed it, but why are you worried about using the Nord for a controller, when you have, and like the VPC 1?

[Joe Muscara]

"The music, the money, and the hang, you have to have at least two out of three." Joe Muscara

Whoa! Thanks for crediting me with that, but I stole that from someone else here, who I'm sure stole it from yet another person, who paraphrased someone else...

 

'sok if you leave the attribution if you want, though. But just know I was spreading the love.

[Michael Wright]

"The music, the money, and the hang, you have to have at least two out of three." Joe Muscara

Whoa! Thanks for crediting me with that, but I stole that from someone else here, who I'm sure stole it from yet another person, who paraphrased someone else...

 

'sok if you leave the attribution if you want, though. But just know I was spreading the love.

Fixed that a bit Joe!

[Joe Muscara]

Fixed that a bit Joe!

[Imagine]

The internal sounds are a little better, but the action feels unnatural. I guess I'm used to wooden keys. The VPC has a much better overall action.

 

I really didn't expect this from a 3K keyboard.

 

This is where I think It gets confusing. If it's simply a matter of requiring more force to get the higher velocities out of the NP4 vs the VPC-1 then the duller sound playing from the NP4 makes sense. I had the same problem with the Korg Z1 where it took some serious force to get those upper velocity values with the built in keybed as opposed to an external controller. I'm just trying to figure out if there is something actually wrong/broken with your NP4 as you seemed to indicate earlier,

 

Question: Are you getting a difference in sound from the NP4 's internal sounds when playing direct vs. using it as a midi controller with local control off? If so then this is what I would discuss with Nord. Otherwise I recommend moving on as the NP4 isn't for you.

 

 

It isn't just a matter of more force. When playing the CFX using both the VPC and NP4, the NP4 sounds slightly dull/muted, whereas the VPC doesn't. Maybe there is something wrong with the NP4.

 

When I play the internal sounds, I have nothing to compare it to, so I guess it sounds ok, but I need to use the NP4 as a midi controller first.

 

I'm in touch with Nord. Maybe they can help. Thanks!

[Imagine]

I may have missed it, but why are you worried about using the Nord for a controller, when you have, and like the VPC 1?

 

I was looking for a slightly lighter and faster keybed when playing orchestral percussion and drums. I don't like pads.

[burningbusch]

I would record (MIDI only) a couple of passes of a simple chord phrase from both keyboards into Pro Tools and examine the results. Does the VPC1, on average, produce higher MIDI velocities? Does the NP4 show just an offset lower or is it compressed in comparison to the Kawai? You should be able to make a more objective analysis of what's going on.

 

Busch.

[Michael Wright]

I may have missed it, but why are you worried about using the Nord for a controller, when you have, and like the VPC 1?

I was looking for a slightly lighter and faster keybed when playing orchestral percussion and drums. I don't like pads.

Ah!